Salary Cap: 24 25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume Mmxxvii Retool over Time to Go for A Cup in 2026
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Gurglesons
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If we don’t move Rust or Rakell this summer I wonder what the reasoning of it will be from the Dubas faithful.
“He’s made so many trades already, he has to ice a roster.”
“He moved Karlsson, so he didn’t want to take away someone that can help Sid produce.”
“He didn’t get the value he wanted, Rust and Rakell will have more value with less term on their deals in season”.
“He already has enough picks. MORE THAN ANY OTHER TEAM in the next three years. He wanted a player.”
“He’s made so many trades already, he has to ice a roster.”
“He moved Karlsson, so he didn’t want to take away someone that can help Sid produce.”
“He didn’t get the value he wanted, Rust and Rakell will have more value with less term on their deals in season”.
“He already has enough picks. MORE THAN ANY OTHER TEAM in the next three years. He wanted a player.”
Especially if you’re the sabres. The sharks have to win soon because they’re about to pick top 11 for the fourth time in three years and they’ve been absolute ass the past six years. They’re certainly trending upward because of their young forwards but they aren’t winners yet. Just shows that going scorched earth is not a guarantee. We’ve been extremely lucky the last 40 years but 1) you can’t depend on tanking and picking a generational talent every 21 years 2) you can win other ways.
We’ll see how this team makes moves in the offseason. If they use picks to trade for 32 year olds in the hopes of competing now, bad move. If they acquire young NHL talent while promoting some of their WBS prospects, smart move.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Sharks were us for the first few years of what you are describing.
They hung onto players and signed dudes like Hertl.
Then Grier came in and made the moves that needed to be made.
Dubas’ “plan” is going to result in someone having to come in and clean up or Dubas just accepting reality once Malkin and Sid are gone and going scorched earth.
I mean complain about Dubas all you want but he clearly has a direction whether people want to admit it or not.
The questions that remains is can he actually do the work well. If he truly thinks he can get more for Rakell in the offseason then whatever give it a try. However if the return is bad then he deserves all the push back and criticism. We don't know what the offers for him were and no wingers besides Rantanen fetch a lot at the deadline. It was all high payment for centers.
I just don't get people complaining about a direction. It's clear they are rebuilding and bringing in draft capital. They aren't going the blow it up approach but he is stripping the team down and getting younger.
The questions that remains is can he actually do the work well. If he truly thinks he can get more for Rakell in the offseason then whatever give it a try. However if the return is bad then he deserves all the push back and criticism. We don't know what the offers for him were and no wingers besides Rantanen fetch a lot at the deadline. It was all high payment for centers.
I just don't get people complaining about a direction. It's clear they are rebuilding and bringing in draft capital. They aren't going the blow it up approach but he is stripping the team down and getting younger.
So we are going to pivot from pivoting? That is an awful lot of pivoting. Kyle has no plan.
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I dunno. The most common complaint isn't even that they're rebuilding, it's that they're trying to rush the rebuild without any inheritors in place. That's the issue. If we had a young blue chip center or blueliner to build around nobody would give a shit. The problem is, the organization seemed to think that us needing to pass the torch is a few years down the road when most people see a team that is clearly in need of that next franchise piece.
That's the main thing giving me pause at least. If we had a young Bedard or DuPont or whoever, then sure, making a pivot is the play to make.
That's the main thing giving me pause at least. If we had a young Bedard or DuPont or whoever, then sure, making a pivot is the play to make.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Trading a 32 year old Rakell isn’t blowing it up.
If he trades him this summer, we can have a different conversation about Dubas.
But, I’m not going to sit around here and pretend he has a plan that makes sense when Rakell is on the team contributing to wins in a season where we had a real chance at a top 5 pick.
Gurglesons
Registered User
My biggest complaint is Dubas actually has no plan besides “making the team as competitive as possible as quick as possible” which is the kind of corporate mumbo jumbo you hear in a self help lecture from an Instagram bro trying to sell you an online course.
Ya and I agree. I am waiting until the draft to make any judgments on whether he screwed this up or not. But I think it's fair to be critical of it. Rakell isn't the reason we aren't getting a top 5 pick though. Its Jarry and Karlsson having a post deadline renaissance.
I don't see why it can't be just as simple as Dubas wanting to be competitive before Crosby retires and wants to keep together a good 1st line that will still be under contract by the time they're targeting being good again.
Like I said, I think it's a mistake if Dubas tries to rush the rebuild to be good for 2026-2027 because I don't think 2 high picks (3 if you count the Rangers 1st) will be enough to build a young core to take over after Crosby retires. That said, Rakell is still signed for another 3 years beyond this year and they'll at least have their L1 for when they'll be trying to be good again.
Like I said, I think it's a mistake if Dubas tries to rush the rebuild to be good for 2026-2027 because I don't think 2 high picks (3 if you count the Rangers 1st) will be enough to build a young core to take over after Crosby retires. That said, Rakell is still signed for another 3 years beyond this year and they'll at least have their L1 for when they'll be trying to be good again.
Meh I still don't believe any of the rush talk, until they make any actions in that direction. Not trading Rakell could be a bad move in that direction but they could also still just trade him and Karlsson in the summer.
Dallas has built their team through draft and trades. Outside of Heiskanen they have no top 10 pick players. I am not saying that is easy to replicate but Dubas has done way better so far in terms of rebuilding a strong and functional farm system.
Again it's fair to be critical of him and the moves but he also has done a good job starting to restock the system so far. So I think he deserve a little bit of credit for that.
It can be that simple but that doesn’t mean it’s a great plan. I would like to get lots of money for not working at all, this is my plan too.
Like how do you rebuild without a franchise player to build around? If you want to give Crosby one last attempt at the playoffs, why stick with this coach and roster? Something has to give, and the GM can say all the things in the world but until we see signs of either, I’m very skeptical that this is a plan of any merit.
Part of what I love about sports is the history that’s built around the different leagues and franchises that have grown the sports. And part of being fan is appreciating the successes that your team has had, both among team and individual achievements.
From that perspective, it’s been awesome to be a Pens fan over the past 40 years. We have 5 Cups and 4 of the greatest players of all time. But there have also been a lot of ‘could have, should have’ conversations around our guys in terms of injuries. So watching Sid work his way into the top 5 all time scorers to me is just as enjoyable as anything else, considering the amount of success he and Malkin have brought to this franchise. I will never get tired of watching Sid and Geno work their way up the charts, and considering it is nigh impossible to be competitive every year and make the playoffs every year over multiple decades, I don’t mind them missing the playoffs right now.
We draft players so that we have the opportunity to watch them bring success, and hope that one day they can have the opportunities to reach the heights that Sid both has already achieved and is working toward right now. So using words like stupid and atrocious and attaching such negative connotations to where the team is right now feels a bit short-sighted and narrowly focused to me. So few fan bases have the opportunity to watch a guy like Sid chase the achievements he’s after while wanting to finish where he started. I love that. There will be plenty of time to trade guys like Rakell or go Cup chasing after he’s retired.
How strong and functional actually is the farm system though? We don’t see these players actually playing in the NHL which is necessary for them to actually contribute to us.
You’re not going to get a franchise player by trading Rakell and acquiring 30th overall picks. But Rakell’s contract is pretty good given his ability to play up and down the lineup and contribute more to areas than just what’s on the stat sheet.
Yeah I don't disagree if you say it's not a good plan, I think they need about 4-5 top picks rather than 2 to actually build a core. I just don't think saying "Dubas has no plan" is really fair. He has a plan, people here may just not agree with it. I don't really agree with it because it seems more focused on doing good for Crosby than it does actually building a contender for post-Crosby.
Ok but both farm teams are top in their leagues. We have 2 rookies in the top 12 of scoring for the AHL and a top rookie goalie. Sure we haven't seen them in the NHL but these players are 19 - 21.
A functional farm takes more than 1 year to develop. You have a fair point because players need to pan out but right now a year + in, the system looks much better.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Nobody is saying you will.
But the more 1sts you have the more likely you are to get a chance at getting one.
I don’t disagree with this, but I also don’t think we’ve had the assets to do that. Let’s see if Dubas does what he says he’s going to, or just continues rebuilding. I don’t really care either way. I don’t see the Pens winning while Crosby and Malkin are still here, so my only expectation is that they give Sid a chance to see if he can creep into the top 4 so he can stay top 5 by the time McDavid passes him.
Then I’ll worry about winning Cups.
I still think it's all just lip service to Sid until actions dictate otherwise. I would not be surprised to see Rakell traded this summer at all.
Fair. But I wouldn’t trade Rakell for the shot at getting guys who are going to be good in 3-5 years if it reduces his chances of breaking more records and accumulating as many points as possible.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Crosby put up similar points with DOC and Rust.
The reason you trade Rakell is his value is at its peak right now. Then you cycle in a different player with Sid and continue.
Sid will be a PPG with Novak and Rust flanking him if he gets the minutes and usage he will on this team.
Said the same thing about letting Jake walk.
