Salary Cap: 24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXVII: Retool over! Time to go for a cup in 2026!

[CheckingLineCenter]

I tend to agree - why would he sign here?

But I disagree about not signing him. If you could swindle Marner into signing here you do it. I don’t think he “ruins” a tank or anything either. Dude is awesome but I don’t think one player propels them up like 10 wins.

If we trade EK but add Marner and stay the course on selling off with the rest of the roster I’d even say we probably get worse.

Marner will still be a good player at 31.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I tend to agree - why would he sign here?

But I disagree about not signing him. If you could swindle Marner into signing here you do it. I don’t think he “ruins” a tank or anything either. Dude is awesome but I don’t think one player propels them up like 10 wins.

If we trade EK but add Marner and stay the course on selling off with the rest of the roster I’d even say we probably get worse.

Marner will still be a good player at 31.

Well, Marner doesn't have a Cup yet so I'm not sure why he'd want to sign here. Not like the Pens have a clear upward trajectory.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Well, Marner doesn't have a Cup yet so I'm not sure why he'd want to sign here. Not like the Pens have a clear upward trajectory.

Yes I agree.

 

[Pens x]

The Marner talk is already becoming insufferable. It is going to be a long couple of months until he signs with another team.

 

[eXile3]

The Marner talk is already becoming insufferable. It is going to be a long couple of months until he signs with another team.

Your pessimism is correct this time. The odds of Marner coming here are zero to none.

 

[Pengu]

I can not see a scenario where the pens are relevant in the 2020s.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

The Marner talk is already becoming insufferable. It is going to be a long couple of months until he signs with another team.

Yes but I find you talking insufferable too, so..

 

[Rave7215]

Well, Marner doesn't have a Cup yet so I'm not sure why he'd want to sign here. Not like the Pens have a clear upward trajectory.

Play with Crosby? Play for a franchise that isn't marred by it's history of losing? Get away from the Toronto media? Maybe be primed to be the next face of the franchise after Sid retires? We pay the most money? Intrigued by the idea of the franchise building around him for the future?

There are lots of reasons. Everyone is different. We don't really know what matters to Marner the most. But there are indeed reasons that could potentially appeal to him.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

If the Pens signed Marner and somehow acquired a goalie they could make the playoffs next year.

But I don't think that'd be a good thing tbh. They need a few years of stocking the system with prospects or the rug is just going to get pulled right out from under them again after that playoff appearance.

To make the playoffs you have to have net positive contributions relative to AAVs on the roster. That's what we lack. We have very few of those guys.
We're wasting our cap, like with Karlsson at 6M play value maybe when he makes 10M. Just to break even you have to have +4M value performance on the rest of the roster.
Graves and Letang won't play up to their contracts either. So that's more net negatives, and we're still only talking about the blue line.
That puts a ton of pressure on the rest of the roster.

Marner's gonna want like 13 mil or whatever. Gotta account for the subtractions made to make room for him, and how much his game is really worth. It has to justify it.
Like if he doesn't play like a 15M+ player, then it's not really gonna lead to progress through him.

We need more contracts like Tomasino or this year's Rakell.
That's why I wanted Vrana, because he will ask for league minimum and outplay it.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Play with Crosby? Play for a franchise that isn't marred by it's history of losing? Get away from the Toronto media? Maybe be primed to be the next face of the franchise after Sid retires? We pay the most money? Intrigued by the idea of the franchise building around him for the future?

There are lots of reasons. Everyone is different. We don't really know what matters to Marner the most. But there are indeed reasons that could potentially appeal to him.

Absolutely. And we can add one more...trust in the GM. I don't think Marner trusts Leafs management at all, and I don't think the Leafs like either Marner's agent or his father. A divorce has been in the cards ever since Dubas was let go, IMO.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

If we trade the Leafs a pick for Marner's rights in the off season, wouldn't we be allowed to give him that 8th year? I mean, we do have a lot of picks now!

 

[lokomotiv15]

Graham is a useless no one, not even worth an echl level contract. Chase Stillman is like a slower Gruden with NHL bloodlines. That third is the best part of that deal.

Dewar is better than Acciari but I'm sure he'll get Sullied. Timmins is going to hate his life trying to make sense of an illogical system and then get blamed for shit he can't control within that chaos.

I'm curious how Sullivan f***s up Novak and also what he does to f*** over Geno even more vs the VGK.

BUT HEY, at least we got picks, lots and lots of picks lol. But again, all for naught if Sullivan remains after the season. You can't go for a youth push with a coach that refuses to use youth or help them develop during a time where the team is in transition and needs a coach that will do that. A contender will maybe say no the players need to develop in the ahl etc. But a team in the Pens situation, that shit doesn't fly.

Sullivan has already given 8+ yrs of showing he can't do shit in that department.

I have no idea why, but would love to see him at rookie camp and depending how he looks, give him an Atley Calvert shot. He's weird because he's got great size, is the captain of his team, hits and actually fights pretty well. He has decent numbers and from limited viewing looks like an ok goal scorer. Problem is, he totally exploded his knee in January, had to get someones achilles tendon to put it back together, and was only at PPGish while playing for Kelowna while Iginla and Cristall were still there.

He's a late bloomer and was only 5'5 130lbs his WHL draft year, so maybe there's room for something there.

Just curious about him. Of course, curiosity did kill the cat.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

To make the playoffs you have to have net positive contributions relative to AAVs on the roster. That's what we lack. We have very few of those guys.
We're wasting our cap, like with Karlsson at 6M play value maybe when he makes 10M. Just to break even you have to have +4M value performance on the rest of the roster.
Graves and Letang won't play up to their contracts either. So that's more net negatives, and we're still only talking about the blue line.
That puts a ton of pressure on the rest of the roster.

Marner's gonna want like 13 mil or whatever. Gotta account for the subtractions made to make room for him, and how much his game is really worth. It has to justify it.
Like if he doesn't play like a 15M+ player, then it's not really gonna lead to progress through him.

We need more contracts like Tomasino or this year's Rakell.
That's why I wanted Vrana, because he will ask for league minimum and outplay it.

You are 100% right. Personally, I am not a Vrana guy but I agree with the premise. And for me, the easiest way to get more bang for your buck is through rookies and prospect development. Which, in the end, is the biggest issue facing this team. So whether we go accelerated or slow rebuild, neither is going to pan out as long as Mike Sullivan prefers Ryan Shea over Owen Pickering (that's just one example). Kevin Hayes on Malkin's LW instead of Rutger McGroarty. Emil Bemstrom playing five minutes a game in the NHL instead of giving a true prospect a chance in that roster spot. Etc. Etc.

We definitely need more Tomasino's. We definitely also need a Marner imo. But Sullivan tempers any and all expectations (and keeps us in the lottery for the foreseeable future).

 

[Jag68Sid87]

If we trade the Leafs a pick for Marner's rights in the off season, wouldn't we be allowed to give him that 8th year? I mean, we do have a lot of picks now!

Didn't Elliot Friedman break down the Rantanen situation last week, suggesting any team that wants to give him 8 years has to acquire him before the trade deadline? I believe that was what he was saying. I have to believe this also applied/applies to Marner. I don't know why.

Guentzel signed with TB after being traded from Carolina. Did he get 7 or 8 years? I think there lies our answer.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I have no idea why, but would love to see him at rookie camp and depending how he looks, give him an Atley Calvert shot. He's weird because he's got great size, is the captain of his team, hits and actually fights pretty well. He has decent numbers and from limited viewing looks like an ok goal scorer. Problem is, he totally exploded his knee in January, had to get someones achilles tendon to put it back together, and was only at PPGish while playing for Kelowna while Iginla and Cristall were still there.

He's a late bloomer and was only 5'5 130lbs his WHL draft year, so maybe there's room for something there.

Just curious about him. Of course, curiosity did kill the cat.

In his TDL presser Dubas basically said he was available because of the injury and Pens will try to get him in and healthy at rookie tourney. Would make sense if it was as bad as you say. I didn’t know the scope of severity. That’s a shame for a guy fighting to get a contract.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Didn't Elliot Friedman break down the Rantanen situation last week, suggesting any team that wants to give him 8 years has to acquire him before the trade deadline? I believe that was what he was saying. I have to believe this also applied/applies to Marner. I don't know why.

Guentzel signed with TB after being traded from Carolina. Did he get 7 or 8 years? I think there lies our answer.

Gotta be in before TDL. Jake got 7

 

[Empoleon8771]

From everything I've read, I think Marner just re-signs with the Leafs. He wants to stay with the Leafs and the Leafs want him back. I think they agree on something like 8 years at $13 million a year, which is still less than what Matthews is making.

Marchand would be the guy I'd be going after aggressively in UFA. Sell Rakell for futures and sign Marchand to like a 2 year, $10 million AAV deal to replace him. Just have Marchand and Crosby together until Crosby retires.

 

[lokomotiv15]

In his TDL presser Dubas basically said he was available because of the injury and Pens will try to get him in and healthy at rookie tourney. Would make sense if it was as bad as you say. I didn’t know the scope of severity. That’s a shame for a guy fighting to get a contract.

I didn't get a chance to catch any of the presser, that is interesting. But yeah, here's a quote from an article on him recovering and his cadaver graft; “I not only tore my MCL down the middle, but I also tore it off my tibia,” Graham told RocketFAN, now with an increased understanding of the procedure that will get him back on the ice. “The medial meniscus, which is connected to the MCL, had a small tear in it. I also tore my posterior oblique ligament, towards the back of the knee. I tore that too.”

He's a big kid who's been through massive growth spurts and I'm sure is still trying to catch up to his body and he blows arguably the most important body-part in a hockey players function in his last year of junior. Its about as big a hill as you can climb, but I'm all about an underdog.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Marchand's contract is why I actually think you could convince him to sign for a high AAV, short term deal. Marchand has been criminally underpaid for his career, the contracts he has signed since his ELC were:

-2011: 2 years, $5 million total
-2013: 4 years, $18 million total
-2016: 8 years, $49 million total

For the caliber of player he is, getting only $72 million over 14 years is criminally underpaying him. If he wins a cup this year, I could really see him biting on a short term, high money deal that gets his career earnings closer to $100 million. The dude would have 2 cups and 4 cup appearances at that point, all he would really have left to do is earn money at that point. And luckily for the Penguins, they're in a position where they can pay him a bunch without worrying about winning.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

You are 100% right. Personally, I am not a Vrana guy but I agree with the premise. And for me, the easiest way to get more bang for your buck is through rookies and prospect development. Which, in the end, is the biggest issue facing this team. So whether we go accelerated or slow rebuild, neither is going to pan out as long as Mike Sullivan prefers Ryan Shea over Owen Pickering (that's just one example). Kevin Hayes on Malkin's LW instead of Rutger McGroarty. Emil Bemstrom playing five minutes a game in the NHL instead of giving a true prospect a chance in that roster spot. Etc. Etc.

We definitely need more Tomasino's. We definitely also need a Marner imo. But Sullivan tempers any and all expectations (and keeps us in the lottery for the foreseeable future).

Yes, solid performing prospects would compensate for some of that net negative.
But I don't see a timeline next year where we make up for all the bad contracts with new additions and make the playoffs. It's too much. Like we're probably overpaying by close to 20 mil right now. Most of those bad contracts are signed through next year too. It's like what Minnesota had with the Parise and Suter buyouts. You can't win it all with that holding you back.

That's why I'd prefer they focus on draft capital and building the next core, while letting the bad contracts expire. They're not gonna win the Cup with these contracts hanging over them, with pivotal roles blocked by guys who can't defend, or with those with regressing offense.

If they truly wanted to throw everything at the wall to win next year, they'd have to burn ton of their draft capital into unloading these bad contracts. That would get them closest.
But even if they did that, they would just overpay for their replacements in free agency, and end up losing anyway, with a decimated prospect pool to show for it in summer '26.

They are simply not ready for an effective re-tool on the fly. Ownership is forcing it.
You have to slowly build up until the situation is better. Then you strike.
Sacrificing time is required to fix this.

 

[Sideline]

Marchand's contract is why I actually think you could convince him to sign for a high AAV, short term deal. Marchand has been criminally underpaid for his career, the contracts he has signed since his ELC were:

-2011: 2 years, $5 million total
-2013: 4 years, $18 million total
-2016: 8 years, $49 million total

For the caliber of player he is, getting only $72 million over 14 years is criminally underpaying him. If he wins a cup this year, I could really see him biting on a short term, high money deal that gets his career earnings closer to $100 million. The dude would have 2 cups and 4 cup appearances at that point, all he would really have left to do is earn money at that point. And luckily for the Penguins, they're in a position where they can pay him a bunch without worrying about winning.

Ideally we get Marner, but realistically I'd give Marchand 1x10MM with a promise to send him to a contender if and when we suck.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Ideally we get Marner, but realistically I'd give Marchand 1x10MM with a promise to send him to a contender if and when we suck.

Unlike Marner, Marchand is an absolute gamer too. I'd prefer our young guys to learn from him.

 

[K Fleur]

I never thought Gaudreau would sign with a team like Columbus so I’m not sold on Marner being a zero chance signing.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

From everything I've read, I think Marner just re-signs with the Leafs. He wants to stay with the Leafs and the Leafs want him back. I think they agree on something like 8 years at $13 million a year, which is still less than what Matthews is making.

Marchand would be the guy I'd be going after aggressively in UFA. Sell Rakell for futures and sign Marchand to like a 2 year, $10 million AAV deal to replace him. Just have Marchand and Crosby together until Crosby retires.

How can you be confident on the Leafs wanting him back when they agreed on a trade with Carolina Friday?

Personally, I think that was the last straw, Warner walks this summer and the Leafs will have nothing to show for it.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I don’t think you can be truly confident in anything from where we sit, however the Leafs thought they were getting back a 100 pt wing for Marner

Now that’s off the table. Stands to reason they may want to keep him despite almost dealing him