Salary Cap: '24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXVI: Sid is Still Goat

[AuroraBorealis]

lol… probably on his no trade list…

He's a tough Euro Northerner. He can handle those -40C winters!
Pack your bags, Raks.
Let's goooo!
Or rather, you goooo!

 

[Empoleon8771]

For whatever it's worth, NHL Network speculating an Evander Kane + deal for Rickard Rakell

I don't mind taking back Kane as a contract, but Edmonton doesn't really have the pieces that get me super excited about moving Rakell there.

It would likely be something like Kane, Akey and a 2026 1st for Rakell, which is just pretty meh. Now if they get stupid and offer Savoie, I'm all ears but I don't think they'd do that.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Again; if Rakell was on the Preds or Kraken or something--and he was having the season he's having, at his age--and they managed to trade him for a 1st+ (even if it's from a contender), people would rightfully applaud it as a good move for the Preds or Kraken. Just like when people applauded the Sharks for getting a 1st+3rd for Granlund and Ceci. It's smart management by basement dwellers, getting value for guys who don't f***in' matter to their teams now or down the line.

I dunno, man. You have to look at things without a Pens homer lens sometimes. If there's a 1st+ deal out there for Rakell, and I think there definitely is, you trade the guy for the deal you think makes the most sense and that's that. /shrug

But, this team's f***ing dumb as shit and dysfunctional to boot, so the folks who desperately want to hold on to Rakell with white knuckle grip will probably get their way.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Again, if the return for Rakell is bad now, why would we assume it would be any better in the future?

I literally said why in the post. His cap hit essentially shrinks as the cap rises significantly.

At the 2028 TDL @ 50% he could fit every team and have monster buyer pool. Not unreasonable you could recoup the same late 1st then, even with his age, as he wouldn’t be a long term commitment.

Also he’s barely scored on the PP this year and if he’s here next season he’s like one of 4 serviceable Fs on the roster. Sure the shooting % is high but the idea some massive falloff is coming seems highly doomer. I’d bet he scores points at a similar rate next season. Someone has to do it on a bad team.

 

[OnMyOwn]

They could also be playing the hand that they want to try and sign guys and attempt to try again next season…like what they supposedly told Sid while he’s still here. So moving Rakell for anything short of a haul would go against that. If he was an FA, I think it’s a no brainer hes gone like Jake was, but he’s not and you’re likely not signing someone like him in FA for his current contract.

 

[SEALBound]

They'd be incredibly dumb to do that.

Play Sid and Geno together if you're so worried about Crosby putting up points. If you're not going to make the best moves for the long-term of the franchise, step down and find someone who will.

Yes, I agree that would be dumb to do so.

I don't mind taking back Kane as a contract, but Edmonton doesn't really have the pieces that get me super excited about moving Rakell there.

It would likely be something like Kane, Akey and a 2026 1st for Rakell, which is just pretty meh. Now if they get stupid and offer Savoie, I'm all ears but I don't think they'd do that.

I'd want to know more about Kane but that wouldn't be the worst return ever. I'd prefer Sam O'Reilly but I think they need him.

That vs Moore+2026 1st...is the difference between Kane and Moore more or less than Akey?

 

[Turin]

1st and Lambert would be cool. Chibrikov is also a young NHL player right now, but his ceiling isn't very high. Aside from that, Kevin He or the other Lucius brother maybe?

 

[Ugene Magic]

Also, I don't think Rakell's "peak value" is necessarily at the TDL this year. Once the new cap comes out and guys fall off payrolls, it opens up a lot more possibilities to move him. Given the good value contract he has, I think there would be plenty of suiters. I don't think a team would be willing to pay that much less (if at all) in the off-season for him.

I will contend that his peak value is between now and the beginning of next year.

So, at the draft table.

Unless the 1st is joined by a top prospect and maybe a sweetener pick due to the 1st being worthless, there's no need to trade him for a 2025 1st.

Some just want to make a trade for sake of making a trade.

 

[Ulf5]

I don't mind taking back Kane as a contract, but Edmonton doesn't really have the pieces that get me super excited about moving Rakell there.

It would likely be something like Kane, Akey and a 2026 1st for Rakell, which is just pretty meh. Now if they get stupid and offer Savoie, I'm all ears but I don't think they'd do that.

I don't see how a Kane deal works. If he comes off LTIR, I believe Edmonton is $4.6 million over the cap. And that wouldn't be counting Rakell's hit incoming.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Last thing I’ll say why it’s dumb to bug out if we don’t move Rakell by Friday:

- I think it’s entirely possible we get a nice package. That is what I want for Rakell.

- But I also think it’s entirely possible teams see 3 years of term after this season as a tad too much for a player who is not a bonafide star and they are not positive will fit their system. Not every GM is JR and drools over term. No guarantee there’s this big valuable deal to be had out there and Dubas isn’t taking advantage.

- Now if they keep him to try to be a buyer this summer and compete next year then I’ll be irked. Think that’s f***ing dumb and if they do it- it better work or we’re looking at purgatory.

 

[Empoleon8771]

1st and Lambert would be cool. Chibrikov is also a young NHL player right now, but his ceiling isn't very high. Aside from that, Kevin He or the other Lucius brother maybe?

Lambert is the guy I really like from Winnipeg if they're sending Rakell to Winnipeg. Issue though is that I basically assume any player with a NTC has Winnipeg on their NTC. Same as Buffalo.

I don't see how a Kane deal works. If he comes off LTIR, I believe Edmonton is $4.6 million over the cap. And that wouldn't be counting Rakell's hit incoming.

I think they're cap compliant with Kane off of LTIR. Not only that, but Frederic is also going to sit on LTIR for the rest of the year I believe.

Yes, I agree that would be dumb to do so.

I'd want to know more about Kane but that wouldn't be the worst return ever. I'd prefer Sam O'Reilly but I think they need him.

That vs Moore+2026 1st...is the difference between Kane and Moore more or less than Akey?

Moore is a good middle-6 winger while Kane is pretty broken IMO. I also would probably want a prospect from LA in this deal too, but just a lesser one than Akey.

I still think Winnipeg has the best assets to pull off Rakell.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Last thing I’ll say why it’s dumb to bug out if we don’t move Rakell by Friday:

- I think it’s entirely possible we get a nice package. That is what I want for Rakell.

- But I also think it’s entirely possible teams see 3 years of term after this season as a tad too much for a player who is not a bonafide star and they are not positive will fit their system. Not every GM is JR and drools over term. No guarantee there’s this big valuable deal to be had out there and Dubas isn’t taking advantage.

- Now if they keep him to try to be a buyer this summer and compete next year then I’ll be irked. Think that’s f***ing dumb and if they do it- it better work or we’re looking at purgatory.

In fairness, by the end of this year, he will have put up 60+ points in 2 of the last 3 years.
That's pretty legit.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Last thing I’ll say why it’s dumb to bug out if we don’t move Rakell by Friday:

- I think it’s entirely possible we get a nice package. That is what I want for Rakell.

- But I also think it’s entirely possible teams see 3 years of term after this season as a tad too much for a player who is not a bonafide star and they are not positive will fit their system. Not every GM is JR and drools over term. No guarantee there’s this big valuable deal to be had out there and Dubas isn’t taking advantage.

- Now if they keep him to try to be a buyer this summer and compete next year then I’ll be irked. Think that’s f***ing dumb and if they do it- it better work or we’re looking at purgatory.

I think the second point's interesting, but even if he does go back to being a middle 6 guy, $5M AAV is probably gonna be the norm for a whatever middle 6 winger moving forward.

Agree on the first and third points. I just think Dubas probably has a few offers on the table and am worried he's gonna turn his nose up at a deal that makes sense. Perfect is the enemy of good and all that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Last thing I’ll say why it’s dumb to bug out if we don’t move Rakell by Friday:

- I think it’s entirely possible we get a nice package. That is what I want for Rakell.

- But I also think it’s entirely possible teams see 3 years of term after this season as a tad too much for a player who is not a bonafide star and they are not positive will fit their system. Not every GM is JR and drools over term. No guarantee there’s this big valuable deal to be had out there and Dubas isn’t taking advantage.

- Now if they keep him to try to be a buyer this summer and compete next year then I’ll be irked. Think that’s f***ing dumb and if they do it- it better work or we’re looking at purgatory.

They don't necessarily have to trade him before the deadline, I think the draft would also be acceptable, but I would still emphasize the need to trade him by the draft. If you trade him then, you can dip into UFA and hand out a high AAV, short term deal to replace him and then also flip that guy.

Yes, you could hold onto Rakell and you might get a 1st for him in the future, I'm skeptical but it's possible. But if you can trade Rakell for a 1st right now, sign someone in FA and then flip that guy for a 2nd down the line, you're better off than holding onto Rakell and trying to get better than a 1st. Or if you can get someone like Moore back in addition to futures, I think it's worth it.

That said, I also think Moore would probably be a 60 point guy here playing with Crosby and you can likely flip him for value down the line too.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Do not want Kane, full F....... stop.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

but even if he does go back to being a middle 6 guy, $5M AAV is probably gonna be the norm for a whatever middle 6 winger moving forward.

agree- but if you hold that viewpoint of the player, why not lowball the offer (if you even make one)?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Let the record show that I pretty much revile the whole "get this guy and flip him down the line" approach. It's just not gonna be a thing in this system and with this coach, and the team seems to be almost as married to Sullivan as they are with Sid. Odds are better that you ratf*** a guy's value than build it up and flip him for anything notable down the line.

agree- but if you hold that viewpoint of the player, why not lowball the offer (if you even make one)?

Well, because he's having an exceptional year and you want to take advantage of that if you have a goal of making a run in the playoffs, and it's generally considered to be a weaker draft so a project type prospect probably doesn't matter to you if you're a team within striking distance of a Cup run.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Let the record show that I pretty much revile the whole "get this guy and flip him down the line" approach. It's just not gonna be a thing in this system and with this coach, and the team seems to be almost as married to Sullivan as they are with Sid.

I think that logic only applies to who is playing LW with Crosby. Just like we saw with Rakell this year, whoever is playing LW with Crosby is going to produce. Replace Rakell with Moore and I bet you're getting at least 80% of Rakell's production, just like you got 80% of Guentzel's production with Rakell in his spot.

You'd probably get even more than 80% because Moore is closer to Rakell than Rakell is to Guentzel IMO.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think that logic only applies to who is playing LW with Crosby. Just like we saw with Rakell this year, whoever is playing LW with Crosby is going to produce. Replace Rakell with Moore and I bet you're getting at least 80% of Rakell's production, just like you got 80% of Guentzel's production with Rakell in his spot.

You'd probably get even more than 80% because Moore is closer to Rakell than Rakell is to Guentzel IMO.

Yeah, I guess for a guy like Moore it's a whatever situation. But you can't be swinging for the fences in FA or taking on genuine fodder in an attempt to boost their value and flip them imo.

And Sid's notoriously difficult to play with. The guy on his wing has to be smart enough to think the game at high speed, and athletic/skilled enough to take advantage of the opportunity to boot.

-edit- Even if you've got a guy like Hornqvist whose overall game works with Sid and he's smart enough to play on his line, if the guy handles pucks like a grenade or isn't a good skater, Sid's eventually gonna get frustrated and the coach is gonna remove the guy from his line.

 

[Kasperi kapanen]

Changing the topic a bit, what’s up with the goalie situation. Blom isn’t even the backup in Wilkes tonight. Even if it’s a travel thing, why bring up Murashov just to backup for 1 game?

 

[The Old Master]

Agree on the first and third points. I just think Dubas probably has a few offers on the table and am worried he's gonna turn his nose up at a deal that makes sense. Perfect is the enemy of good and all that.

if that's true he'll be held out of tonight's game.

 

[Victor Z]

Do not want Kane, full F....... stop.

100% agreed. If there's even close to anything involving a deal with that albatross in it, the Pens better also be getting EDM's #1 picks for the next 5 seasons. And I'm not even sure THAT makes it worthwhile.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Changing the topic a bit, what’s up with the goalie situation. Blom isn’t even the backup in Wilkes tonight. Even if it’s a travel thing, why bring up Murashov just to backup for 1 game?

I'd imagine the team probably wants to get Murashov top time in WBS with how he's been dominating in the ECHL, and there seems to be a vibe that the Pens aren't really that high on Blomqvist.

 

[SEALBound]

I want a good return but I do think there is a bit of nuance here when talking about different packages. I'd want a multi-piece package if we are looking at 2025 draft picks. So like, Moore+1st+ B prospect as the stated example previously but I'd also be willing wait until after the draft when teams have to talk 2026 picks. I'd be fine with a 2026 1st + B+ prospect. Now if it's a top team like Dallas, Edmonton, Vegas - I might ask for a bit more because that 1st is going to be late. But I'd be fine with something like 2026 1st + Jakob Dvorak from LA post 2025 draft, ideally before FA.

Changing the topic a bit, what’s up with the goalie situation. Blom isn’t even the backup in Wilkes tonight. Even if it’s a travel thing, why bring up Murashov just to backup for 1 game?

I saw that. Made me wonder if there is a goalie move coming?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

100% agreed. If there's even close to anything involving a deal with that albatross in it, the Pens better also be getting EDM's #1 picks for the next 5 seasons. And I'm not even sure THAT makes it worthwhile.

He only has 1 year left at 5.1M chill lol