Salary Cap: '24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXV - Poolman and Poolparty?!?

[Gurglesons]

Meanwhile Petts and O'Connor returned what could be a much better 1st.

I expect a 1st, player for cap reasons and a 2nd, or similar value prospect.

Trading Rakell for simply a very very late 1st and Moore is terrible.

Why is the Kings 1st very very late? They haven’t exited the 1st round in 5+ years and are currently 12th in the league.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Why is the Kings 1st very very late? They haven’t exited the 1st round in 5+ years and are currently 12th in the league.

Because Rakell could spark the Kings, and they are 3rd in the Pacific division and placing there or 2nd (possible) they avoid the Oilers in the 1st round.

That puts them at a possible 24 finish or later. Upsets.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

People need to stop viewing Rakell as some super valuable piece.

If someone offers a 1st you take it. Era's over. Load up and hope you find some gems with extra draft capital over the next handful of years and maybe you'll have a shot at making the post-Sid mire only last a few years as opposed to like a decade.

Rickard Rakell doesn't f***ing matter, man. Nobody on this roster does except Sid, Geno. and maybe Pickering and Blomqvist, though Murashov and Larsson both look impressive too on the goalie prospect front.

Everyone should be for sale. The team's gotta stop this half-assed bullshit that's got people like "Hmmm, not an obscene fleecing for a super important middle 6 guy like Rakell. Pass."

 

[Gurglesons]

Because Rakell could spark the Kings, and they are 3rd in the Pacific division and placing there or 2nd (possible) they avoid the Oilers in the 1st round.

That puts them at a possible 24 finish or later. Upsets.

And the Rangers could easily make the playoffs and go the conference finals like they have multiple times in recent years.

Getting a 1st and out of a 32 year old with 3 more years’ contract gives us cap flexibility. Acquiring Moore gives us another asset we can flip.

Would be a great move.

 

[SEALBound]

Because Rakell could spark the Kings, and they are 3rd in the Pacific division and placing there or 2nd (possible) they avoid the Oilers in the 1st round.

That puts them at a possible 24 finish or later. Upsets.

I actually think the Kings are going to make a big splash at the TDL and load up. They'll be battling Vegas and then likely Edmonton in the first through round. Then probably a team like Winnipeg or Colorado or Dallas in the WCF. West will be a bloodbath. You're either in or out and with their current roster, I'm not sure how many opportunities you pass up on.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

If you manage to snag 1st rounders for any of EK, Rust, Rakell or Bunting, you've really done well imo. EK's a purely one dimensional blueliner who has been a shell of his Norris caliber play since arriving (though I put that on the coach/system mostly). Rust is gonna be 33 in a couple months and has struggled with injuries for most of his entire career. Rakell's a whatever middle-6 guy who doesn't really hurt you on the ice and coaches love that. Bunting's a whatever middle-6 guy that teams may want because his style of play usually does well in a playoff atmosphere.

I'm really pushing for a 1st rounder to start with when it comes to any of those guys, and if that's a no go, I'm looking for good prospects or young guys who can/will be around for the post-Sid chapter. Might be able to get something like that from a team that's been bad lately but is looking to take the next step toward competing. Teams like Detroit and Ottawa fit the bill there imo.

Letang's a wild card. He has a name and resume everyone recognizes but his play's dropped off a f***ing cliff the past couple of years, hot streaks aside, and I'm sure this team hesitates to trade the guy because of the potential to really piss Sid and/or Geno off. Not that I personally give a shit, but the team will, for sure. But Letang's cooked, couldn't care less if he retires a Penguin tbh. And who knows? Maybe he rebounds a bit in a better system and on a team where he's not playing 25 minutes a night.

 

[Pancakes]

If you manage to snag 1st rounders for any of EK, Rust, Rakell or Bunting, you've really done well imo.

I'd be disappointed if we didn't get a first or equivalent asset for EK, Rust, or Rakell.

If you asked me last off season that probably wouldn't have been the case but with the cap rising and with the Pens being able to use their retention slots there's very little excuse not to get high quality assets back for EK, Rust, or Rakell.

Bunting I'm less sold on them getting a good return for just because I don't think he's as highly regarded around the league as those three.

But like Rust and Rakell are on very reasonable contracts and are still highly productive players. EK has his warts but if you retain enough on that contract I think someone would flip a first for him. He can still do a lot to help a team and he's had some really good playoff runs.

If I'm someone like Carolina who always seems to struggle to score in the playoffs I'd strongly consider adding a retained EK to boost me over the top.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'd be disappointed if we didn't get a first or equivalent asset for EK, Rust, or Rakell.

If you asked me last off season that probably wouldn't have been the case but with the cap rising and with the Pens being able to use their retention slots there's very little excuse not to get high quality assets back for EK, Rust, or Rakell.

Bunting I'm less sold on them getting a good return for just because I don't think he's as highly regarded around the league as those three.

But like Rust and Rakell are on very reasonable contracts and are still highly productive players. EK has his warts but if you retain enough on that contract I think someone would flip a first for him. He can still do a lot to help a team and he's had some really good playoff runs.

If I'm someone like Carolina who always seems to struggle to score in the playoffs I'd strongly consider adding a retained EK to boost me over the top.

Yeah, I just don't think teams are as willing to throw around 1st rounders as they used to a few years ago.

I'm definitely hoping those guys bring back high value assets, but we'll see. Rakell and Bunting are guys you probably try to move at the TDL to playoff teams looking for depth, that's likely where they're most valuable. Rust is a guy you have to wait until his NTC drops and ideally, you can get some team to bite after they've lost out on the first frenzy of FA. EK's gonna need 50% retention and an off season setting so teams can sort their cap structure out imo.

But yeah, I dunno. I'm hoping they can all bring back strong returns but we'll see. Just because they're significant players for this team doesn't mean they're really worth a bunch elsewhere. This team's depth is abysmal, and Rust, Rakell and Bunting are all middle-6 guys on legit teams imo.

 

[SEALBound]

Rakell are all middle-6 guys on legit teams imo.

Show me which legit team has a guy pacing for 35 goals in "the middle 6".

 

[Empoleon8771]

Even if you want to argue only getting a 1st for Rakell is light, consider this: they got him for effectively Clang and a 2nd and got 3 good years out of him overall (2 great, 1 bad). Converting Clang and a 2nd to 3 years of Rakell and a 1st is just good asset management.

 

[Gurglesons]

Calling EK65 a shell of himself here is so bizarre.

Dude has been fantastic for us.

 

[cygnus47]

Show me which legit team has a guy pacing for 35 goals in "the middle 6".

Rakell 24G,22A, 54 games
Guentzel 26, 25, 51 games
Kempe 24, 20, 51 games
Hischier 24, 19, 51 games
Caulfield 26, 23, 54 games
Larkin 23, 27, 54 games

Most of his points are even strength and he's the most physical of the lot of them. Top 15 in goals, top 30 goals/game. Objective first line goal scorer on a friendly contract. Yah real throwaway guy, get whatever you can for him.

 

[The Old Master]

I wonder what the Pettersson deal would have been without DOC and I wonder what the offers from Edmonton and VGK were?

I think Dubas wanted that 1st and adding DOC was the cherry topper needed to get it.

I would have been underwhelmed if it was something like: DH, VD, Fernstrom, and 2nd and then a 3rd from Edmonton for DOC.

at least he had offers and made what he thought was the best deal.

 

[The Old Master]

People need to stop viewing Rakell as some super valuable piece.

one mans trash is another mans treasure. as long as there are gm's like JR there will be hope

 

[Empoleon8771]

Rakell 24G,22A, 54 games
Guentzel 26, 25, 51 games
Kempe 24, 20, 51 games
Hischier 24, 19, 51 games
Caulfield 26, 23, 54 games
Larkin 23, 27, 54 games

Most of his points are even strength and he's the most physical of the lot of them. Top 15 in goals, top 30 goals/game. Objective first line goal scorer on a friendly contract. Yah real throwaway guy, get whatever you can for him.

I mean, which is more likely: Rakell is benefitting greatly from playing 19 minutes a night with Crosby, or Rakell suddenly exploded into a 35 goal, 70 point 1st liner at age 31 when he's been mostly a ~50 point 2nd liner his entire career?

 

[canadianguy77]

Calling EK65 a shell of himself here is so bizarre.

Dude has been fantastic for us.

There are two reasons why this team isn’t at the very bottom of the standings right now and those are 87 and 65.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Calling EK65 a shell of himself here is so bizarre.

Dude has been fantastic for us.

There are two reasons why this team isn’t at the very bottom of the standings right now and those are 87 and 65.

I mean, he's a shell of what he was his last season in San Jose, but that's only because he got Sullied. And even then, he's STILL the second best player on this team.

With the recent news about the cap skyrocketing, this team shouldn't have to retain, and should be able to get decent pieces back.

I still think Dallas needs a Karlsson with the void left by Heiskanen. He can't take care of the defensive work, but he can more than compensate for the offense lost from the blueline. Put him with Lindell and that pair would be fine defensively. I just want Bichsel coming back.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Idea. How bad is Seth Jones, really? Bad bad, or just overpaid a few million. The Pens are going to have loads of cap space, but I'm not sure they'll be able to spend it well in UFA. Marner and Rantanen probably aren't coming to Pittsburgh willingly unless maybe it's on a short term deal with the hopes to cash in on a higher cap later.

What if we dealt Graves to Chicago for Seth Jones? Change of scenery for both. We take on more cap but get a guy who could actually play top four with us.

I'm basically looking for the Pens version of the PLD for Kuemper deal. Take on an overpaid player but dump one that has no future with us for a net win.

 

[SEALBound]

Idea. How bad is Seth Jones, really? Bad bad, or just overpaid a few million. The Pens are going to have loads of cap space, but I'm not sure they'll be able to spend it well in UFA. Marner and Rantanen probably aren't coming to Pittsburgh willingly unless maybe it's on a short term deal with the hopes to cash in on a higher cap later.

What if we dealt Graves to Chicago for Seth Jones? Change of scenery for both. We take on more cap but get a guy who could actually play top four with us.

I'm basically looking for the Pens version of the PLD for Kuemper deal. Take on an overpaid player but dump one that has no future with us for a net win.

I would do Graves AND Jarry. Not just Graves though.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Because you're not getting better value for Rakell than an expensive middle-6 winger and a 1st.

I like Moore, but we're diluting Rakell's value if Moore is the only piece coming back.

People are really off if they think Rakell is returning more than a 1st and a decent contract like Moore.

IF we decide to trade him, (and that's a big 'if') Rakell will be returning more than a 1st and Moore, especially this offseason when teams get sticker shock from seeing how much UFAs will be going for.

Good talk then I guess?

Rakell is likely not bringing back the value you think he should bring back. An overpriced middle-6 guy with term and a mid/late 1st is likely very close to what he'll be bringing back if he gets moved. They'd likely put Moore in Rakell's spot with Crosby and see if he can rebound to his 2023-2024 form, and then sell him later when his value would be higher than it is when he's being acquired.

Moore and a 1st for Rakell would be a good return for Rakell, because teams don't pay a ton of assets for players over 30 with term. Miller only brought back Chytil, some no-name prospect and a 1st and he's a significantly better player than Rakell is.

Vancouver also sold low on Miller, whereas we will be selling high on Rakell.

People need to stop viewing Rakell as some super valuable piece.

If someone offers a 1st you take it. Era's over. Load up and hope you find some gems with extra draft capital over the next handful of years and maybe you'll have a shot at making the post-Sid mire only last a few years as opposed to like a decade.

Rickard Rakell doesn't f***ing matter, man. Nobody on this roster does except Sid, Geno. and maybe Pickering and Blomqvist, though Murashov and Larsson both look impressive too on the goalie prospect front.

Everyone should be for sale. The team's gotta stop this half-assed bullshit that's got people like "Hmmm, not an obscene fleecing for a super important middle 6 guy like Rakell. Pass."

Nope. While we should be trading away many of the vets, we still need some of them. Trading away all of the vets leaves the prospects with nobody to play with. That's how you become Buffalo.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Vancouver also sold low on Miller, whereas we will be selling high on Rakell.

Miller is also a substantially better player than Rakell. Even with Miller having a down year, he was still outpacing Rakell this year while also being a center. Last year, he outscored Rakell by 66 points.

There just isn't a track record of guys over 30 with term bringing back huge value. Considering they paid a 2nd and Clang for him, getting a 1st back for him 3 years later is a pretty damn good outcome.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Miller is also a substantially better player than Rakell. Even with Miller having a down year, he was still outpacing Rakell this year while also being a center. Last year, he outscored Rakell by 66 points.

There just isn't a track record of guys over 30 with term bringing back huge value. Considering they paid a 2nd and Clang for him, getting a 1st back for him 3 years later is a pretty damn good outcome.

It is a good outcome compared to what we bought him for. My problem is with Moore's age. I like him, but he's 29. If we could get a 25-year-old version of what Moore is right now, it would be more palatable to me.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean, he's a shell of what he was his last season in San Jose, but that's only because he got Sullied. And even then, he's STILL the second best player on this team.

With the recent news about the cap skyrocketing, this team shouldn't have to retain, and should be able to get decent pieces back.

I still think Dallas needs a Karlsson with the void left by Heiskanen. He can't take care of the defensive work, but he can more than compensate for the offense lost from the blueline. Put him with Lindell and that pair would be fine defensively. I just want Bichsel coming back.

EK65 is one of the best generators of offense in the league on the blue line in the two years he has been here.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Miller is also a substantially better player than Rakell. Even with Miller having a down year, he was still outpacing Rakell this year while also being a center. Last year, he outscored Rakell by 66 points.

There just isn't a track record of guys over 30 with term bringing back huge value. Considering they paid a 2nd and Clang for him, getting a 1st back for him 3 years later is a pretty damn good outcome.

This part means literally nothing considering Rakell was UFA at the time, and the Pens were trying to trade for him for a good bit. Them not letting him go with term on the cheap, Rakell didn't have the option to go to another team until then. Miller had been moved twice and didn't become who he is until Vancouver. Rakell was already a top producer leading his team before the down years for the team itself caught up to them.

You are trying too hard to discredit Rakell.

These are not the flat cap era of getting guys for cheap anymore.

Also, I don't know how or where a guy succeeds 1st/2nd line, or at wing or center is considered being bad, or that he scored and lead his team in scoring playing center 2017/18 leading them in Goals 34 and points 69. You would figure a guy like that could do it from anywhere.

Leaving Anaheim changed everything for him getting away from the rapid declining rebuilding Ducks.

I mean, which is more likely: Rakell is benefitting greatly from playing 19 minutes a night with Crosby, or Rakell suddenly exploded into a 35 goal, 70 point 1st liner at age 31 when he's been mostly a ~50 point 2nd liner his entire career?

He became a 60+ guy again and that is all that matters.