Salary Cap: '24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXV - Poolman and Poolparty?!?

[The Old Master]

Cool, so why keep players that could garner assets for the rebuild when we are not competing again?

I am getting flashbacks to my hoarder great aunt who refused to throw anything away because "someday it'll be worth money!"

have you checked the price on antiques lately.

 

[Gurglesons]

Imagine what we could’ve gotten if DOC actually put up goals again this year….

 

[Ugene Magic]

A Kings fan threw out Rakell for Moore and a 2026 1st on the main boards. I think that would be a very good deal for Dubas to take, it's not quite a "cap dump and futures" package since Moore is a solid player but it's getting a 1st back for Rakell regardless.

What does the team need with an expensive 3rd liner?

I get he had an uptick year, but that's hardly a reason to take him on at the expense of a late 1st for Rakell.

That's selling really low.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What does the team need with an expensive 3rd liner?

I get he had an uptick year, but that's hardly a reason to take him on at the expense of a late 1st for Rakell.

That's selling really low.

Because you're not getting better value for Rakell than an expensive middle-6 winger and a 1st.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Because you're not getting better value for Rakell than an expensive middle-6 winger and a 1st.

You can do better than just taking on the other teams trash for what is a very late 1st.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

You can do better than just taking on the other teams trash for what is a very late 1st.

There are usually cap constraints, roster size limits, and NHL contract limits. It isn't just a "we give you this player for a draft pick" and that's it. It's not me and my dang Pokemon trading cards.

That said, I think I'd make that trade. Moore isn't trash. Who was the prospect that was included in the proposal from the LAK fan?

 

[Empoleon8771]

There are usually cap constraints, roster size limits, and NHL contract limits. It isn't just a "we give you this player for a draft pick" and that's it. It's not me and my dang Pokemon trading cards.

That said, I think I'd make that trade. Moore isn't trash. Who was the prospect that was included in the proposal from the LAK fan?

Francesco Pinelli, 2nd rounder from 2021 that looks super underwhelming.

 

[Ugene Magic]

There are usually cap constraints, roster size limits, and NHL contract limits. It isn't just a "we give you this player for a draft pick" and that's it. It's not me and my dang Pokemon trading cards.

That said, I think I'd make that trade. Moore isn't trash. Who was the prospect that was included in the proposal from the LAK fan?

One Emp denied on inclusion.

The main point is Rakell is a positive asset, moreso than Petts and O'Connor.

It should return a positive return.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Francesco Pinelli, 2nd rounder from 2021 that looks super underwhelming.

I actually think I remember that player from that draft. Mostly because his last name is close to mine. Here's the two EP scouting reports:

By Mitchell Brown
2024-08-20
Pinelli still has a ton of passing skill. Very adaptable and uses slip passes. In general, he's still skilled and looking for high-value plays, but he doesn't have the supporting skills to make the most of it. Unlikely many prospects, it's not the off-puck movement or engagement. Instead, it's that too many are his plays are too easily defended, he's not willing to build plays, and he's not aware of back pressure or particularly good at using his body to shield possession. There's a still a chance he works his way up this lineup and becomes a big scorer, but even if he does that, he still looks like a low-probability bet to play in the NHL without a mentality shift and improved mechanics.

By Mitchell Brown
2024-08-20
Pinelli's playing a depth role in the AHL, and though he's not out of place, it's clearly not aligned with his strengths. Still, he shows a heightened sense of urgency defensively, supporting skills, and some puck-winning ability. Offensively, his best attribute is his off-puck movement and awareness. He's always an option and times his movements to ensure he's an option -- that will benefit him as he works up the depth chart. The puck skills didn't really appear much. He threw a couple of imprecise passes into the slot, and his reaction to pressure is slow down or cut back. His pace has improved in some senses, but still remains a projection concern, as does his lack of a physical game. Looks a like a long-shot.

From two games at the end of last AHL season.

 

[SEALBound]

I wonder what the Pettersson deal would have been without DOC and I wonder what the offers from Edmonton and VGK were?

I think Dubas wanted that 1st and adding DOC was the cherry topper needed to get it.

I would have been underwhelmed if it was something like: DH, VD, Fernstrom, and 2nd and then a 3rd from Edmonton for DOC.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I actually think I remember that player from that draft. Mostly because his last name is close to mine. Here's the two EP scouting reports:

By Mitchell Brown
2024-08-20
Pinelli still has a ton of passing skill. Very adaptable and uses slip passes. In general, he's still skilled and looking for high-value plays, but he doesn't have the supporting skills to make the most of it. Unlikely many prospects, it's not the off-puck movement or engagement. Instead, it's that too many are his plays are too easily defended, he's not willing to build plays, and he's not aware of back pressure or particularly good at using his body to shield possession. There's a still a chance he works his way up this lineup and becomes a big scorer, but even if he does that, he still looks like a low-probability bet to play in the NHL without a mentality shift and improved mechanics.

By Mitchell Brown
2024-08-20
Pinelli's playing a depth role in the AHL, and though he's not out of place, it's clearly not aligned with his strengths. Still, he shows a heightened sense of urgency defensively, supporting skills, and some puck-winning ability. Offensively, his best attribute is his off-puck movement and awareness. He's always an option and times his movements to ensure he's an option -- that will benefit him as he works up the depth chart. The puck skills didn't really appear much. He threw a couple of imprecise passes into the slot, and his reaction to pressure is slow down or cut back. His pace has improved in some senses, but still remains a projection concern, as does his lack of a physical game. Looks a like a long-shot.

From two games at the end of last AHL season.

Yeah my read of him being a pretty underwhelming prospect seemed accurate. The value is mostly the 1st rounder coming back.

One Emp denied on inclusion.

The main point is Rakell is a positive asset, moreso than Petts and O'Connor.

It should return a positive return.

How is this not a positive return? Do you seriously think that the 1st rounder is just being paid to get out of Moore's deal?

He's a 40-45 point middle-6 winger signed for $4.2 million a year. He's not very valuable but his value is absolutely not negating out a 1st.

 

[SEALBound]

I actually think I remember that player from that draft. Mostly because his last name is close to mine. Here's the two EP scouting reports:

By Mitchell Brown
2024-08-20
Pinelli still has a ton of passing skill. Very adaptable and uses slip passes. In general, he's still skilled and looking for high-value plays, but he doesn't have the supporting skills to make the most of it. Unlikely many prospects, it's not the off-puck movement or engagement. Instead, it's that too many are his plays are too easily defended, he's not willing to build plays, and he's not aware of back pressure or particularly good at using his body to shield possession. There's a still a chance he works his way up this lineup and becomes a big scorer, but even if he does that, he still looks like a low-probability bet to play in the NHL without a mentality shift and improved mechanics.

By Mitchell Brown
2024-08-20
Pinelli's playing a depth role in the AHL, and though he's not out of place, it's clearly not aligned with his strengths. Still, he shows a heightened sense of urgency defensively, supporting skills, and some puck-winning ability. Offensively, his best attribute is his off-puck movement and awareness. He's always an option and times his movements to ensure he's an option -- that will benefit him as he works up the depth chart. The puck skills didn't really appear much. He threw a couple of imprecise passes into the slot, and his reaction to pressure is slow down or cut back. His pace has improved in some senses, but still remains a projection concern, as does his lack of a physical game. Looks a like a long-shot.

From two games at the end of last AHL season.

Yeah, I looked into him a bit and my general conclusion was, I think you only take him if there's a certain amount of committment to bring up some WBS guys on to the roster next year, meaning you also have to go out of your way to move some current roster players.

Like, move Acciari and Heinen to make room for Broz/Pono/McGroarty. THEN you can slot Pinelli into a top 6 WBS role to see if he blossoms. Otherwise, I'm not sure I see how he fits into the puzzle. Just like we don't want to bring up guys like Koivunen to play a 4th line role under Sullivan because we don't want to stunt his development, we shouldn't be bringing guys who have "value" as part of a trade if we don't have a development path for them.

In the thread, I asked for a defensive prospect instead and suggested Dvorak. We have a few more open defensive slots than at forward.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Yeah my read of him being a pretty underwhelming prospect seemed accurate. The value is mostly the 1st rounder coming back.



How is this not a positive return? Do you seriously think that the 1st rounder is just being paid to get out of Moore's deal?

He's a 40-45 point middle-6 winger signed for $4.2 million a year. He's not very valuable but his value is absolutely not negating out a 1st.

You denied the prospect. Enough said.

 

[Gurglesons]

People are really off if they think Rakell is returning more than a 1st and a decent contract like Moore.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You denied the prospect. Enough said.

The prospect stinks, it's a nothing piece.

You're still not explaining how Moore and a 1st is somehow negative return.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

People are really off if they think Rakell is returning more than a 1st and a decent contract like Moore.

 

[Ugene Magic]

People are really off if they think Rakell is returning more than a 1st and a decent contract like Moore.

Meanwhile Petts and O'Connor returned what could be a much better 1st.

I expect a 1st, player for cap reasons and a 2nd, or similar value prospect.

Trading Rakell for simply a very very late 1st and Moore is terrible.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I also don't see how the Kings 1st is a "very very late 1st" when they're currently sitting 12th in the league and their 1st has fallen at 19th, 22nd and 26th in the past 3 drafts.

It's a 1st rounder that's probably sitting around 22. Basically the fringes of what you'd call a "mid 1st" and "late 1st".

 

[Pancakes]

People are really off if they think Rakell is returning more than a 1st and a decent contract like Moore.

Yeah I know Mp got a good return as a rental but given how fast Vancouver signed him they must have had some idea he'd be amenable to an extension which I'm sure helped JR decide to move the pick

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

I actually think I remember that player from that draft. Mostly because his last name is close to mine.

Thank you Franco, very cool!

 

[Ugene Magic]

The prospect stinks, it's a nothing piece.

You're still not explaining how Moore and a 1st is somehow negative return.

It's a very very late first, and Moore won't play beyond the 2nd line. If he even sticks there at all.

I also don't see how the Kings 1st is a "very very late 1st" when they're currently sitting 12th in the league and their 1st has fallen at 19th, 22nd and 26th in the past 3 drafts.

It's a 1st rounder that's probably sitting around 22. Basically the fringes of what you'd call a "mid 1st" and "late 1st".

You don't expect a surge in adding Rakell to the mix at all. Of course not.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's a very very late first, and Moore won't play beyond the 2nd line. If he even sticks there at all.


You don't expect a surge in adding Rakell to the mix at all. Of course not.

This is as bizarre as your "you can't trade Karlsson because you have to hit the cap floor" argument.

Rakell is having a really good year, but adding Rakell isn't causing any team to surge in the standings. He's a piece that might turn a 4-3 series loss into a 4-3 series win, not a guy that makes you jump 8 positions in the standings.

Also if we want to talk playoff production, Rakell has 19 points in 48 career playoff games. Outside of his amazing 2017 run, it's 6 points in 33 games.

 

[Ugene Magic]

This is as bizarre as your "you can't trade Karlsson because you have to hit the cap floor" argument.

Rakell is having a really good year, but adding Rakell isn't causing any team to surge in the standings. He's a piece that might turn a 4-3 series loss into a 4-3 series win, not a guy that makes you jump 8 positions in the standings.

I think a lot of your takes are bizarre as well. It's literally throwing as much shit at the wall, and something is bound to stick, maybe.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think a lot of your takes are bizarre as well. It's literally throwing as much shit at the wall, and something is bound to stick, maybe.

Good talk then I guess?

Rakell is likely not bringing back the value you think he should bring back. An overpriced middle-6 guy with term and a mid/late 1st is likely very close to what he'll be bringing back if he gets moved. They'd likely put Moore in Rakell's spot with Crosby and see if he can rebound to his 2023-2024 form, and then sell him later when his value would be higher than it is when he's being acquired.

Moore and a 1st for Rakell would be a good return for Rakell, because teams don't pay a ton of assets for players over 30 with term. Miller only brought back Chytil, some no-name prospect and a 1st and he's a significantly better player than Rakell is.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Thank you Franco, very cool!

Il mio gatto e Franco.