Salary Cap: '24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXV - Poolman and Poolparty?!?

[Empoleon8771]

Depends on return for EK. Does holding onto his cap hit really matter with where this team is at?

If all you can get is a Fernstrom type prospect and a 3rd.. dont really care if they deal him or not. If you can get something worthwhile then hell yeah ship him out.

However- they need to deal at least 2 of Rakell, Bunting, Rust, EK by start of next year IMO. This team simply does not have a lot of trade chips and I agree with the idea that you can’t risk age/performance dropping off for the few you do have.

I think whether I agree with this or not depends on what other moves should be made in the off-season.

Rakell is an absolute no brainer to trade, no doubts. But whether I'd want to also trade Bunting or Rust depends on what they're doing in free agency. I don't want to rush guys like McGroarty and Koivunen into the top-6 without any alternatives, even if the alternatives are guys like Beauvillier.

 

[SEALBound]

I also think people need to let go of the idea that the only worthwhile trades are absolute lopsided fleecings in our favor. Cutting bait or retooling are perfectly fine reasons for a trade.

I disagree there unless its Jarry or Graves or even a recent guy like Heinen or Desharnais.

I still fully expect Dubas to management our current "decent trade chips" appropriately. There's just soooooo little sense in merely "cutting bait" with a guy like Bunting or Rakell. Jarry, Graves - yes.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

My big caution about waiting is how many times this team has ridden out contracts that we could have moved and/or resigned guys we shouldn't. Again, newish GM but this has happened under MULTIPLE GM's during the Sid era.

Like every year people say "we'll hold on to X and trade him at the deadline" and then our single deadline move is Granlund.

But the idea that another season of Mike Sullivan hockey is going to improve players' values is pretty wild to me.

I also think the new fascination with acquiring guys to flip them down the road misses the glaringly obvious; this team sucks and has a dogshit coach/system for letting guys pile up points and build value.

 

[HandshakeLine]

FWIW, I don't think this team's getting a haul for anybody. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be moved though. EK's value has plummeted since coming here and plodding around in this team's system. Rust has a nice resume and all that but he's gonna be 33 and has injury woes. Rakell's a middle-6 guy, same with Bunting. Out of all of those guys, you may have two 1st rounders. Maaaaybe, and that's if you find a team desperate for Rust after the dust settles on July 1st, and you find a team desperate for a transition/offensive d-man like EK (and retain 50%).

But you take what you can get, when you can get it, and move on. Keeping them is asinine imo.

I would trade Rust for future considerations just because it would make Yohe feel sad.

I also think the new fascination with acquiring guys to flip them down the road misses the glaringly obvious; this team sucks and has a dogshit coach/system for letting guys pile up points and build value.

Yeah, if we constantly were rehabilitating guys' careers instead of having them come here and put up their lowest numbers ever, I'd buy the argument that we can make these dorks more valuable.

But no, we turned a 100 point guy on the worst team in hockey into a 50 point guy on a slightly better team.

I also think the new fascination with acquiring guys to flip them down the road misses the glaringly obvious; this team sucks and has a dogshit coach/system for letting guys pile up points and build value.

Yeah, if we constantly were rehabilitating guys' careers instead of having them come here and put up their lowest numbers ever, I'd buy the argument that we can make these dorks more valuable.

But no, we turned a 100 point guy on the worst team in hockey into a 50 point guy on a slightly better team.

 

[HandshakeLine]

BRB. Forcing the doctor to keep my gangrenous limb because it could suddenly turn things around next year.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Like, if this team gave Puljujarvi a permanent spot and let him do his thing as a defensively strong middle-6 guy who could chip in offensively now and then, or *gasp* let him learn the sacred arts of PKing, they could probably have flipped him for something at the TDL. But they scratched the guy for half the season and let him rot in WBS despite often looking like this team's best winger for stretches early in the year.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I also think people need to let go of the idea that the only worthwhile trades are absolute lopsided fleecings in our favor. Cutting bait or retooling are perfectly fine reasons for a trade.

Completely agree. Even applies to good players. Like Guentzel, one of the biggest wins of that deal was not having Jake for 9M+ x 8 years with a NMC from the ages of 30 to 37. When this team is gonna be spinning its wheels for at least 5 of those years (even that is wishful).

Even if they had just gotten some collection of 3rd rounders I’d say the same thing about Petts and OC. Big win to not have Petts for 6 years at an elevated cap hit and clauses/protection from age 29 - 34 and this team blows.

Those signings didn’t yield much (Rust or Horny for instance) when this team was actually decent. Like you say, sometimes part of the return isn’t tangible and is simply cutting bait.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Like, if this team gave Puljujarvi a permanent spot and let him do his thing as a defensively strong middle-6 guy who could chip in offensively now and then, or *gasp* let him learn the sacred arts of PKing, they could probably have flipped him for something at the TDL. But they scratched the guy for half the season and let him rot in WBS despite often looking like this team's best winger for stretches early in the year.

No, we were simply improving the value of the slowest player in the league, Noel Acciari.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I think whether I agree with this or not depends on what other moves should be made in the off-season.

Rakell is an absolute no brainer to trade, no doubts. But whether I'd want to also trade Bunting or Rust depends on what they're doing in free agency. I don't want to rush guys like McGroarty and Koivunen into the top-6 without any alternatives, even if the alternatives are guys like Beauvillier.

Not worried about the bolded- Play garbage cap dumps in the T6 like Hayes, Glass or more until the prospects are ready. We will suck for a pick even more. And maybe you boost a K Hayes value as he picks up cheap points.

The valid concern for me is not rushing prospects (as you can simply not call them up), but them having no one to play with sans-Sid.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Completely agree. Even applies to good players. Like Guentzel, one of the biggest wins of that deal was not having Jake for 9M+ x 8 years with a NMC from the ages of 30 to 37. When this team is gonna be spinning its wheels for at least 5 of those years (even that is wishful).

Even if they had just gotten some collection of 3rd rounders I’d say the same thing about Petts and OC. Big win to not have Petts for 6 years at an elevated cap hit and clauses/protection from age 29 - 34 and this team blows.

Those signings didn’t yield much (Rust or Horny for instance) when this team was actually decent. Like you say, sometimes part of the return isn’t tangible and is simply cutting bait.

Yeah. I mean, there's also merit to the position that we shouldn't be panic trading and taking future considerations for these dudes. I am not advocating that in the slightest. But perhaps you get a 2nd and an intriguing prospect for a guy that you had hoped to get a 1st + for. That's not the end of the world.

But if the team is really serious about improving the value of these guys, they would be firing the coach ASAP and just opening everything up.

 

[SEALBound]

My big caution about waiting is how many times this team has ridden out contracts that we could have moved and/or resigned guys we shouldn't. Again, newish GM but this has happened under MULTIPLE GM's during the Sid era.

Like every year people say "we'll hold on to X and trade him at the deadline" and then our single deadline move is Granlund.

But the idea that another season of Mike Sullivan hockey is going to improve players' values is pretty wild to me.

Well to be fair, for the VAST VAST majority of the Sid era, anyone that would have been worth trading was likely a guy they would want to hold on to for the playoffs.

Like not trading Orpik was fine by me. Same with Gonchar, Guerin, Kunitz, etc. Sure in retrospect it would have been nice to trade 1-2 of them that's hindsight. I remember when the possibility of a Kunitz for Sharp deal was circulating. That would have made sense but it's hard to discount how much Kunitz did for us in the 16/17 cup runs.

 

[molon labe]

I think all the chit chat aside -

Rust and EK will also age. I'd rather just deal them the moment they're available than bet on them having some sort of 'better' season at any point.

I'd set that mark at a 1st round pick. The moment that becomes available for either of them - including retention on EK. You do it. Zero point waiting around for that extra prospect at the risk of a mediocre season, an injury, or just flat out opinion on their age(s).

Those are pieces that aren't tilting the scale on the team in any way.

 

[SEALBound]

BRB. Forcing the doctor to keep my gangrenous limb because it could suddenly turn things around next year.

Weird way to describe your junk but okay.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think all the chit chat aside -

Rust and EK will also age. I'd rather just deal them the moment they're available than bet on them having some sort of 'better' season at any point.

I'd set that mark at a 1st round pick. The moment that becomes available for either of them - including retention on EK. You do it. Zero point waiting around for that extra prospect at the risk of a mediocre season, an injury, or just flat out opinion on their age(s).

Those are pieces that aren't tilting the scale on the team in any way.

I agree with this, it's either a 1st or something similar to a 1st in value.

I'd be willing to have some wiggle room there with Rust because I'm honestly pretty skeptical Rust brings back a 1st. I'd probably just take a 2nd if push came to shove with Rust. But Karlsson is a hard requirement for me to get a 1st back.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

You can probably find a 1st for EK but you're absolutely gonna have to retain 50% imo, like, requirement to even get teams talking about a 1st.

I think if Rust makes it through July a Penguin, that's pretty indicative of a huge failure. I can't see a better time to trade him than shortly after FA hits, where you can maybe take advantage of a team that missed out on the bidding war.

Neither 1st is likely to be a high one, but anything after a top-10 pick, quantity is king imo. More lotto tickets and all that.

 

[Ugene Magic]

What trade happened?

4/5 pages runoff to what?

Still squabbling over going nuclear of the roster. Meh...

 

[SomeDude]

July and August should 100% be a yard sale for the Pens as teams miss out and get sticker shock of the cost of players with the cap increase.

Our guys with term should have their value increased tremendously.

Do I actually expect Kyle to take advantage of that? That’s now how we do things in Pittsburgh.

 

[Ugene Magic]

You can probably find a 1st for EK but you're absolutely gonna have to retain 50% imo, like, requirement to even get teams talking about a 1st.

I think if Rust makes it through July a Penguin, that's pretty indicative of a huge failure. I can't see a better time to trade him than shortly after FA hits, where you can maybe take advantage of a team that missed out on the bidding war.

Neither 1st is likely to be a high one, but anything after a top-10 pick, quantity is king imo. More lotto tickets and all that.

This is the kind of backwards management sinking asset levels why the team is in the shape it is in.

 

[SEALBound]

July and August should 100% be a yard sale for the Pens as teams miss out and get sticker shock of the cost of players with the cap increase.

Our guys with term should have their value increased tremendously.

Do I actually expect Kyle to take advantage of that? That’s now how we do things in Pittsburgh.

Unfortunately, I thought those prices are going to be handed out regardless for most players. We have to target the teams with $6mil in space that don't want to spend $7mil on Reilly Smith or Anthony Mantha. Or who don't want to pay DOC or ZAR $3mil to be on the 4th line.

 

[Empoleon8771]

A Kings fan threw out Rakell for Moore and a 2026 1st on the main boards. I think that would be a very good deal for Dubas to take, it's not quite a "cap dump and futures" package since Moore is a solid player but it's getting a 1st back for Rakell regardless.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

A Kings fan threw out Rakell for Moore and a 2026 1st on the main boards. I think that would be a very good deal for Dubas to take, it's not quite a "cap dump and futures" package since Moore is a solid player but it's getting a 1st back for Rakell regardless.

Done, file the paperwork.

 

[SEALBound]

A Kings fan threw out Rakell for Moore and a 2026 1st on the main boards. I think that would be a very good deal for Dubas to take, it's not quite a "cap dump and futures" package since Moore is a solid player but it's getting a 1st back for Rakell regardless.

I'd definitely want the prospect thrown in as the OP intended. The additional plus is, in 2 years, you have another (hopefully) top 6 wing to sell off on a decent hit contract.

This would definitely be another "well this draft sucks, may as well get a good player for the 1st" deal.

 

[The Old Master]

I mean, the realistic thing is, you can only trade the good-ish players. I don't know why we'd want to horde assets when we're clearly in a downward spiral, but I don't really get a lot of things about yinzers these days.

the lower we go the better players we get and if we can't use some to move up in the draft. the more picks we have. better players will only screw the above up.

 

[Gurglesons]

A Kings fan threw out Rakell for Moore and a 2026 1st on the main boards. I think that would be a very good deal for Dubas to take, it's not quite a "cap dump and futures" package since Moore is a solid player but it's getting a 1st back for Rakell regardless.

Any deal we get a 1st in should be a move for either of Rust or Rakell.

 

[Malkinstheman]

I'd definitely want the prospect thrown in as the OP intended. The additional plus is, in 2 years, you have another (hopefully) top 6 wing to sell off on a decent hit contract.

This would definitely be another "well this draft sucks, may as well get a good player for the 1st" deal.

It's a 2026 1st not 2025