Salary Cap: '24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXV - Poolman and Poolparty?!?

[canadianguy77]

More than half way through the season and we have two individuals with a positive +-. Lizotte being the only regular.

Quick glance, the only team that beats us is Chicago with one poor soul positive.

They've been blown out 7 times this season. (I count a blowout as a 4 or more goal difference). The good news is that they haven’t suffered a blowout loss since December 10th. The bad news is they only have 2 blowout wins themselves this season. But yeah, they really put themselves in a hole with the +/- in the 1st quarter of the season.

 

[eXile3]

The more I’ve thought about it, the more of a no brainer I think it is to get rid of Jarry via a buyout than retain salary. Jarry’s buyout is weird due to all of the signing bonus money at the end of it, so the yearly money is fairly tame outside of that awful 2025-2026. But with Malkin presumably retiring after next year, do you even care about Jarry’s dead cap at that point?

A Jarry buyout gives them a $1.7 million cap penalty next year and then has an awful $5 million cap penalty in 2025-2026. Beyond those two years, the cap penalty is less than $1 million. Hard to be upset about a Jarry buyout when 5/6 years of the buyout are pretty minimal cap penalties.



He can both give Marner a huge deal while filling out the bottom-6 with young guys and cap dumps, though. You can take Chychrun out of that lineup and replace him with POJ to save an additional $5 million to do that.

It’s not that it can’t happen. It’s that it won’t. Even if we get Marner, which I think is a pipe dream, Sully won’t allow a 3rd line like that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It’s not that it can’t happen. It’s that it won’t. Even if we get Marner, which I think is a pipe dream, Sully won’t allow a 3rd line like that.

But like what was said, you still have money to play with to add veterans to the bottom-6. They have a ton of cap space going into next year.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If the Penguins were to sign Marner, they could enter next year with this forward group without any additions beyond re-signing Hallander:

Rakell-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Marner
Hallander-Glass-Tomasino
Lizotte-Ponomarev-Acciari
Hayes

Tomasino falls into that "bottom-6 offensive producer" role while their PKers are Ponomarev, Lizotte, Glass, Rust, Acciari and Hallander. They're not really going "youth heavy" in their bottom-6, but the bottom-6 is still fairly young with Acciari being the only guy over 27. In addition it's also very cheap, Glass probably comes in at around $2.5 million again while Hallander and Tomasino probably come in at around $2 million. That bottom-6 is basically just replacing O'Connor, Nieto and Beauvillier with Tomasino, Ponomarev and Hallander.

Honestly I'd even be pretty satisfied with this forward group, it's what they should be doing anyway. Don't spend money on unnecessary bottom-6 forwards, have a few cheap but effective prime aged NHLers surrounded with young guys. It leaves you a bunch of money to address other positions on the roster, namely top-6 C/W and top-4 D.

If you sign Marner for $12.5 million a year and keep the RFAs at reasonable prices, I'm sitting with $7.5 million in cap space with buying out Jarry and having 2 open LD spots (POJ as the 3rd pair RD). The entire McGroarty-Broz-Koivunen line would be starting in WBS, so you have a strong line to call up in case of injuries.

 

[Jdodd]

If the Penguins were to sign Marner, they could enter next year with this forward group without any additions beyond re-signing Hallander:

Rakell-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Marner
Hallander-Glass-Tomasino
Lizotte-Ponomarev-Acciari
Hayes

Tomasino falls into that "bottom-6 offensive producer" role while their PKers are Ponomarev, Lizotte, Glass, Rust, Acciari and Hallander. They're not really going "youth heavy" in their bottom-6, but the bottom-6 is still fairly young with Acciari being the only guy over 27. In addition it's also very cheap, Glass probably comes in at around $2.5 million again while Hallander and Tomasino probably come in at around $2 million. That bottom-6 is basically just replacing O'Connor, Nieto and Beauvillier with Tomasino, Ponomarev and Hallander.

Honestly I'd even be pretty satisfied with this forward group, it's what they should be doing anyway. Don't spend money on unnecessary bottom-6 forwards, have a few cheap but effective prime aged NHLers surrounded with young guys. It leaves you a bunch of money to address other positions on the roster, namely top-6 C/W and top-4 D.

If you sign Marner for $12.5 million a year and keep the RFAs at reasonable prices, I'm sitting with $7.5 million in cap space with buying out Jarry and having 2 open LD spots (POJ as the 3rd pair RD). The entire McGroarty-Broz-Koivunen line would be starting in WBS, so you have a strong line to call up in case of injuries.

Like the above, but do you really think Glass, Tomasino, and Hallander will cost 6.5 Mil.? I know w salary cap going up but seems high. I was thinking more around 4-4.5 mil for those 3. With that said I have no clue what Hallander is making overseas.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Like the above, but do you really think Glass, Tomasino, and Hallander will cost 6.5 Mil.? I know w salary cap going up but seems high. I was thinking more around 4-4.5 mil for those 3. With that said I have no clue what Hallander is making overseas.

Yeah probably. Hallander and Tomasino probably come in at around $2 million while Glass comes in at $2.5 million.

 

[Ulf5]

Yeah probably. Hallander and Tomasino probably come in at around $2 million while Glass comes in at $2.5 million.

I don't see Glass getting $2.5 million again as a RFA. Hopefully nowhere near that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't see Glass getting $2.5 million again as a RFA. Hopefully nowhere near that.

$2.5 million isn't a lot of money in the NHL today. Considering Glass' performance this year (pacing for 25 points while killing penalties), that's about what he's worth.

His QO is $2.5 million anyway, so he'd need to get that to have his rights retained, but I also don't really see $2.5 million AAV as unfair for him either. $2.5 million in the NHL today gets you guys like Heinen, Kuraly and Wood.

That said I think you can pretty fairly point to Lizotte as a good comparable for Glass and justify getting Glass for a bit less. But once you're talking like $2 million vs $2.5 million, the difference just really doesn't matter to me. I'd see if Glass would take 2 years at $2 million to continue being a bottom-6 center for them, otherwise just give him that 1 year deal at his QO.

 

[Gurglesons]

No reason to sign Glass.

 

[Ulf5]

No reason to sign Glass.

I can see a non-tender and lower amount honestly. Has some nice qualities but he's not much more than a league minimum player at this point.

 

[Empoleon8771]

No reason to sign Glass.

Why not? You need depth and you can move some of these guys to wing.

I don't think Glass is anything special but there's nothing wrong with McGroarty-Broz-Koivunen starting in the AHL next year. And if that Hallander rumor ends up not becoming true, then McGroarty will have a spot in the NHL on L3.

 

[Andy99]

We shouldn’t be spending $2M on nothing players in the bottom six….hate that about Dubas…spend some money on the top six and D…keep bottom six under $2M a player and younger players..stop giving out term to goaltenders…end of rant lol

 

[Empoleon8771]

We shouldn’t be spending $2M on nothing players in the bottom six….hate that about Dubas…spend some money on the top six and D…keep bottom six under $2M a player and younger players..stop giving out term to goaltenders…end of rant lol

The lineup I posted above literally has them paying Marner $12.5 million a year plus having an extra $8 million in cap space to add 2 defensemen.

Touching back on Hallander for a bit, a big reason I hope that rumor of him coming back ends up true is because he's a very logical Bunting replacement once Bunting gets traded as a rental. I looked up his SHL team and he is playing LW there, and his playstyle was basically described as a Hagelin/Hornqvist mesh type of player. That seems like a super logical guy to replace Bunting once Bunting gets traded, which also clears up a spot for McGroarty to firmly have a top-9 spot.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

No reason to sign Glass.

Agreed.

There is no way we should even entertain the idea of qualifying him. Then if he wants to sign for less than a million to compete for a job, sure. He is a fourth-line center. That is it. Let's not let Mike Sullivan confuse us into thinking he is anything else.

We should treat Glass like we treated Emil Bemstrom last off-season. No QO, he re-signed for less, competed for a roster spot and is now in the AHL.

I am on the fence about Tomasino, too. Personally, I love what he brings and his hands are sweet. He is what we need more of. But Sullivan will be here, so I don't know whether Tomasino should get a QO because of that factor. Tomasino's only role on this team, it could be argued, is second-line right-winger. He actually looked pretty good with Malkin and Bunting, but not for Sullivan because it lasted precious few games. I suppose Tomasino could be an interesting third-line option, but this injury hurts his chances of coming back and impressing enough to get a QO.

Also, Marner will be leaving Toronto for at least $14 million per, otherwise he is likely staying. And I would easily give him 7 X $14M.

The biggest obstacle to what we can do moving forward is Jarry. It starts there. We need to find a taker. Whatever team is currently motivated to move out a goaltender (I assume it's Anaheim), we need to beat them to the punch. OR, if Gibson is traded then we should pounce and offer Jarry to Anaheim with the hope they bite.

 

[Gurglesons]

Why not? You need depth and you can move some of these guys to wing.

I don't think Glass is anything special but there's nothing wrong with McGroarty-Broz-Koivunen starting in the AHL next year. And if that Hallander rumor ends up not becoming true, then McGroarty will have a spot in the NHL on L3.

Taking up a roster spot. I like him, but spending 2 million on him is terrible especially considering we are going to likely be spending 5.5 on Hayes and Acciari.

 

[Ulf5]

Agreed.

There is no way we should even entertain the idea of qualifying him. Then if he wants to sign for less than a million to compete for a job, sure. He is a fourth-line center. That is it. Let's not let Mike Sullivan confuse us into thinking he is anything else.

We should treat Glass like we treated Emil Bemstrom last off-season. No QO, he re-signed for less, competed for a roster spot and is now in the AHL.

I agree he should only be a 4th line center. And Lizotte is better. Hallander's coming back, Ponomarev waiting. Might not even be a spot for Glass. Certainly not at $2 million or more.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Detroit less so unless they think Cossa and/or Augustine are going to be ready in the next three years but Husso, Talbot, and Lyons are just as bad. Montreal has Montembeault with no one of note in the minors. So both teams are in need of a decent starter. If they go to FA, the pickings are slim and they likely have to give a equal or worse goal an equal or higher contract than Jarry so why not make a trade for a cheap starter?

As much as I think Jarry sucks, there is still a piece of me that wonders if he wouldn't improve on a team that has even a vaguely competent defensive zone system which has been absent in Pittsburgh for quite some time now.

Jakub Dobes is the real deal. Very good AHL performance, followed by a great start in the NHL.

Before he got his shot, I thought Mtl was a slight possibility for Jarry. Moreso Ned, though. Now, I think there is zero chance.

I agree he should only be a 4th line center. And Lizotte is better. Hallander's coming back, Ponomarev waiting. Might not even be a spot for Glass. Certainly not at $2 million or more.

What is the Hallander comeback rumor? This year? Next? I have always been intrigued by this player.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Taking up a roster spot. I like him, but spending 2 million on him is terrible especially considering we are going to likely be spending 5.5 on Hayes and Acciari.

I find it incredible hard to care if they're spending $7.5 million on Hayes, Acciari and Glass versus $5.5 million on Hayes and Acciari. You're talking about a fraction of the cap when the Penguins have a ton of cap space to play with. All re-signing Glass does (in terms of negatives) is it prevents you from taking on one additional cap dump in Glass' place.

There's nothing wrong with McGroarty-Broz-Koivunen starting next year as WBS's #1 line and there's still a spot for Glass in the bottom-6 even if they bring back Hallander. I don't see what sort of problem it is to run with this bottom-6 to start next year:

Hallander-Glass-Tomasino
Lizotte-Ponomarev-Acciari
Hayes

I am on the fence about Tomasino, too. Personally, I love what he brings and his hands are sweet. He is what we need more of. But Sullivan will be here, so I don't know whether Tomasino should get a QO because of that factor. Tomasino's only role on this team, it could be argued, is second-line right-winger. He actually looked pretty good with Malkin and Bunting, but not for Sullivan because it lasted precious few games. I suppose Tomasino could be an interesting third-line option, but this injury hurts his chances of coming back and impressing enough to get a QO.

No, Tomasino should absolutely be retained as the primary offensive player on L3 and a top-6 injury replacement. There is absolutely a spot for him there and they'd be silly to let him walk from that.

Especially considering the bottom-6 will be getting more offensively talented players in the next few years between McGroarty, Broz and (possibly) Hallander, the only way you move on from Tomasino is if there is a better option for the offensive L3 player. Right now, the only guy that could be that is Koivunen.

 

[Gurglesons]

Jakub Dobes is the real deal. Very good AHL performance, followed by a great start in the NHL.

Before he got his shot, I thought Mtl was a slight possibility for Jarry. Moreso Ned, though. Now, I think there is zero chance.


What is the Hallander comeback rumor? This year? Next? I have always been intrigued by this player.

Taylor Hasse and Swedish media are reporting Hallander will sign a two year deal with PIT once his contract is up in the SHL.

 

[Ulf5]

What is the Hallander comeback rumor? This year? Next? I have always been intrigued by this player.

There's a link to a Swedish paper or site floating around here somewhere saying he's not returning to the SHL next season instead returning to the NHL.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Taylor Hasse and Swedish media are reporting Hallander will sign a two year deal with PIT once his contract is up in the SHL.

I saw the Swedish report but I didn't know Hasse reported it as well. That's really good news.

 

[Gurglesons]

I find it incredible hard to care if they're spending $7.5 million on Hayes, Acciari and Glass versus $5.5 million on Hayes and Acciari. You're talking about a fraction of the cap when the Penguins have a ton of cap space to play with. All re-signing Glass does (in terms of negatives) is it prevents you from taking on one additional cap dump in Glass' place.

There's nothing wrong with McGroarty-Broz-Koivunen starting next year as WBS's #1 line and there's still a spot for Glass in the bottom-6 even if they bring back Hallander. I don't see what sort of problem it is to run with this bottom-6 to start next year:

Hallander-Glass-Tomasino
Lizotte-Ponomarev-Acciari
Hayes

Somehow the bottom six is worse than this year. I guess that's a Dubas / Sully speciality.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Somehow the bottom six is worse than this year. I guess that's a Dubas / Sully speciality.

How is that bottom-6 worse than this year?

They're getting rid of Nieto, Beauvillier and O'Connor and replacing them with Hallander, Ponomarev and Tomasino. How is that getting worse? If you believe the "League to NHL translation" factors, Hallander being a PPG player in the SHL translates to a 45 point player in the NHL.

 

[Gurglesons]

How is that bottom-6 worse than this year?

They're getting rid of Nieto, Beauvillier and O'Connor and replacing them with Hallander, Ponomarev and Tomasino. How is that getting worse? If you believe the "League to NHL translation" factors, Hallander being a PPG player in the SHL translates to a 45 point player in the NHL.

Beauvillier is fifth on the team in goals.

Glass has one. I just don't see the attraction of that bottom six. And Hallander scoring 45 points is absurd.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Beauvillier is fifth on the team in goals.

Glass has one. I just don't see the attraction of that bottom six. And Hallander scoring 45 points is absurd.

A good chunk of Beauvillier's goals came when he was playing with Crosby on L1. Of Beauviller's 9 goals, Crosby had an assist on 4 of them and Malkin has an assist on 1. In terms of actual "bottom-6 goals", Beauvillier only looks like he has 4.

Hallander likely won't be hitting that, but his production suggests he should be coming in as an effective top-9 forward. I don't see it as a stretch that he could come in and be a solid 15-20 goal, 35-40 point winger. It's not crazy to suggest with how he has performed in the SHL.

I'm not wild about Glass, but to me he's just a placeholder until Broz is fully ready for the role. I don't really see a purpose for moving on from him until Broz shows he's fully ready, and once he is, you can just sell off Glass for like a 3rd or 4th next year.