Salary Cap: '24-'25 Salary Thread: Crosbicles Volume MMXXV - Poolman and Poolparty?!?

[PensFutures]

So when exactly do we find out if he went claimed or not?

2pm EST

For what exactly?

To either be able to add a significant piece or not be a cash strapped lottery team.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

To either be able to add a significant piece or not be a cash strapped lottery team.

This is not a team you add a significant piece to. They're .478 in a weak East and need to rebuild ASAP.
They're not 1 player away. More like 5+.

 

[eXile3]

i think dubas looks like hes doing a better job now than he was 4 months ago because the trades all look better and he was pragmatic enough to move on relatively quickly from the jarry mistake.

I laughed a little a this, though I don’t think it was meant as a joke.

 

[cookthebooks]

I laughed a little a this, though I don’t think it was meant as a joke.

thats fine, have a good chuckle since the feeling is mutual

 

[HandshakeLine]

No one knows shit about how the plan will turn out. It's like a 10+ year project, if Dubas gets re-signed.
We're at the 1.5 year mark.
Standings results in the first 2 years are meaningless, since they were write-offs before he made a move.

Not gonna stand here and say he's done brilliantly, but they are shitty conditions here and it's way too early to draw conclusions on how all this will turn out.

Yeah you were so patient with Hextall AB. I should learn from your example.

 

[cookthebooks]

hextall had the last gasp contender years of the core to work with, dubas has the let them retire with some semblance of dignity ones.

 

[Ulf5]

We used picks like that to win Cups, during ELC's. Not sure why you think it's a joke.
I would be pretty hesitant in putting so much faith in scouting and draft position. They are constantly wrong.

Better to just stock up and hope to get lucky.

A- it was tongue in cheek. Figured the supreme being would realize.
B- some of the the 3rds certainly helped win Cups but weren't the primary reason.

 

[Gurglesons]

hextall had the last gasp contender years of the core to work with, dubas has the let them retire with some semblance of dignity ones.

The Penguins are a laughing stock right now. Largely because of Dubas, not Hextall.

Hextall declined the team in his last year, but at least provided the core with two playoff caliber rosters and his last year they missed by a point.

Dubas has provided the core with two rosters that are throwing away 7-8 losses in a row that realistically have not been close to the playoffs for 75% of both years.

 

[eXile3]

hextall had the last gasp contender years of the core to work with, dubas has the let them retire with some semblance of dignity ones.

I was front row at a home game where we didn’t even score a goal against Ottawa. The Kraken just beat us. I’m lost as to where the dignity is being had.

 

[The Old Master]

Better to just stock up and hope to get lucky.

we need more quality over quantity.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Penguins are a laughing stock right now. Largely because of Dubas, not Hextall.

Hextall declined the team in his last year, but at least provided the core with two playoff caliber rosters and his last year they missed by a point.

Dubas has provided the core with two rosters that are throwing away 7-8 losses in a row that realistically have not been close to the playoffs for 75% of both years.

You mean he inherited 2 playoff caliber rosters from JR and largely did nothing with them until his 3rd year.

The year where he actually made notable changes to the roster is the year where the team fell off a ton.

 

[Gurglesons]

You mean he inherited 2 playoff caliber rosters from JR and largely did nothing with them until his 3rd year.

The year where he actually made notable changes to the roster is the year where the team fell off a ton.

I mean sure whatever.

We can find ways to say Hextall wasn’t a good GM. Nobody is saying he was.

The reality is Dubas’ team is a wreck. He lost a potential franchise defenseman in the Erik Karlsson trade and “the youth movement” he has brought in is largely being buoyed by Hextall and Rutherford picks.

 

[Gurglesons]

I saw someone say Chicago may be interested in claiming him??

Just some smoke I’ve heard from people.

Also heard Jarry was going on waivers at like 7AM yesterday. Not sure, I’ll be right, but just sounds like CHI may be interested.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I feel like the point is that when you show me two pictures... one of Ron Hextall and one of Kyle Dubas... I don't see much of a difference at all. Whereas many seem to think KD is one some higher echelon for... reasons... despite the results being right in front of us and him not exactly doing what was considered a terrific job in his prior gig.

I do not think conditions were exactly amazing for Hextall, either. And frankly most of the damage that Dubas has had to deal with has been self-inflicted. Even with Letang and Malkin taking noticeable steps back... you're gonna tell me that at like 20ish million combined it's the core that's sinking this team and therefore KD is blameless because (as is conveniently the case with him) his "hands are tied?" No sale.

 

[Gurglesons]

I feel like the point is that when you show me two pictures... one of Ron Hextall and one of Kyle Dubas... I don't see much of a difference at all. Whereas many seem to think KD is one some higher echelon for... reasons... despite the results being right in front of us and him not exactly doing what was considered a terrific job in his prior gig.

I do not think conditions were exactly amazing for Hextall, either. And frankly most of the damage that Dubas has had to deal with has been self-inflicted. Even with Letang and Malkin taking noticeable steps back... you're gonna tell me that at like 20ish million combined it's the core that's sinking this team and therefore KD is blameless because (as is conveniently the case with him) his "hands are tied?" No sale.

Yeah, this is not a controversial take but for some reason Penguins fans want to act like Ron Hextall ruined this team when the reality is it’s just been a slow death of bad decisions for 4-5 years largely framed by our useless coach.

The biggest issue is Dubas is saying he’s here to retool and he gave away a 1st that turned into Sam Dickinson and did now get a 1st for Guentzel.

 

[Sideline]

Just some smoke I’ve heard from people.

Also heard Jarry was going on waivers at like 7AM yesterday. Not sure, I’ll be right, but just sounds like CHI may be interested.

I could maybe see Chicago doing a Mrazek for Jarry trade. Claiming him outright would be mind blowing.

 

[SEALBound]

I mean sure whatever.

We can find ways to say Hextall wasn’t a good GM. Nobody is saying he was.

The reality is Dubas’ team is a wreck. He lost a potential franchise defenseman in the Erik Karlsson trade and “the youth movement” he has brought in is largely being buoyed by Hextall and Rutherford picks.

He's had ONE draft and there have been three players total from it that have played league wide.

Dubas's youth movement is largely Puljujarvi, Tomasino, Glass, Lizotte, and brining POJ back.

At the end of the day though, we all know it's a relatively futile effort. No GM is going to change the fact that Sid, Malkin, Letang are all 37+. That more than anything is driving why we are not great anymore. The idea was always suck the last bit of success as we transition.

Hextall and Dubas do not have the same goals as a GM of this team. The cup was the goal with Hextall and he largely failed at that. Dubas is merely trying to make the playoffs which he has failed at the first year and then it shift to "make it or don't, we are looking to the future".

Dubas hasn't been good by nearly any metric but I have trouble seeing how a different GM would do anything better given the team they were saddled with.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I feel like the point is that when you show me two pictures... one of Ron Hextall and one of Kyle Dubas... I don't see much of a difference at all. Whereas many seem to think KD is one some higher echelon for... reasons... despite the results being right in front of us and him not exactly doing what was considered a terrific job in his prior gig.

I do not think conditions were exactly amazing for Hextall, either. And frankly most of the damage that Dubas has had to deal with has been self-inflicted. Even with Letang and Malkin taking noticeable steps back... you're gonna tell me that at like 20ish million combined it's the core that's sinking this team and therefore KD is blameless because (as is conveniently the case with him) his "hands are tied?" No sale.

The only disagreement I have in this discussion is that Dubas has hurt the Penguins more than Hextall has. Hextall traded away or lost numerous good prime aged players (McCann, Matheson, Marino, Tanev and ERod namely) and replaced them with worse players on bad deals (Kapanen, Granlund, Carter, Petry and Rutta namely). He was actually pretty good in his first off-season IMO but that second off-season and last season was a downright disaster.

The Carter UFA signing was done insanely prematurely and was already bad by the first season of the new deal. Letting ERod go to re-sign Kapanen to a 2 year, $3.2 million AAV deal, when he was awful to end the previous year and was waived halfway through the next season. Swapping out Matheson and Marino for Petry and Rutta made the puck moving far worse and any sort of improvements from physicality didn't make up for it. Not only that, but the team was way older and way slower. He had to pay to get out of McGinn's deal at the deadline, and after he luckily got out of McGinn and Kapanen's deal, he did that horrid Granlund trade.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah, this is not a controversial take but for some reason Penguins fans want to act like Ron Hextall ruined this team when the reality is it’s just been a slow death of bad decisions for 4-5 years largely framed by our useless coach.

The biggest issue is Dubas is saying he’s here to retool and he gave away a 1st that turned into Sam Dickinson and did now get a 1st for Guentzel.

I don't have nearly as big a problem with the EK and Jake trades. Though I understand people not being satisfied with either of those decisions for a variety of reasons. It's been like... mostly everything else. This past offseason in particular was downright demoralizing even if I were to pretend the team is even halfway serious about any kind of rebuild. And his variety of sins his first year on the job are already well-documented.

I don't think he's a walking disaster or anything. I just think he's mediocre, at best. And with the weird situation he's in (by his own creation or not I do not know) on this team with his head coach makes him even worse than that.

I just feel like people maybe are missing the point a little bit. Nobody is saying Ron Hextall is good. At least I'm not.

 

[Kasperi kapanen]

Just some smoke I’ve heard from people.

Also heard Jarry was going on waivers at like 7AM yesterday. Not sure, I’ll be right, but just sounds like CHI may be interested.

#insider

 

[SEALBound]

Yeah, this is not a controversial take but for some reason Penguins fans want to act like Ron Hextall ruined this team when the reality is it’s just been a slow death of bad decisions for 4-5 years largely framed by our useless coach.

The biggest issue is Dubas is saying he’s here to retool and he gave away a 1st that turned into Sam Dickinson and did now get a 1st for Guentzel.

He wasn't retooling when he gave away the pick though. They were still in "we want to win the cup" mode. You can criticize him for not slapping FSG, Sid, Geno, Letang, and Sullivan in the face and saying it can't be done but then I don't think he gets the job.

Sam Dickenson is not helping this team win a cup. The 25th to 42nd overall from last year, isn't helping us win a cup. Name the player that went in the late 1st to Brunicke that would. Literally, name the exact player we missed on.

What you don't get is that, while Hextall is gone, the impact from the asset losses are still being felt which is why more people correctly place the blame on Hextall more so than Dubas at the moment. Right now, not having a 2nd pairing of Marino-Matheson is bigger issue than what it took to get $10mil EK and Gryz. Not having a 2C caliber Jared McCann is a big issue given that it's clear we need Malkin on the wing. All the while, we could have used the assets needed to move Petry, Rutta, and Granlund (and the f***ing 2nd round pick it took to get him) to improve the roster. Instead, it was cleanup work from Day 1.

Now, if Brunicke, Howe, and McGroaty all fail in 5 years, then yeah, you can blame Dubas for the state of the team. As is, when it comes to how good we are, Hextall's impact is much more prevalent. If you have Marino-Matheson, there is no Petry, Rutta, Graves, Gryz...

That said, in a vague attempt to take a step back and find common ground, I don't any of this matters as much as we want to think because JR, Hextall, and Dubas have all elected to keep Mike Sullivan so...

 

[Gurglesons]

#insider

Nah. Inside discord.

He wasn't retooling when he gave away the pick though. They were still in "we want to win the cup" mode. You can criticize him for not slapping FSG, Sid, Geno, Letang, and Sullivan in the face and saying it can't be done but then I don't think he gets the job.

Sam Dickenson is not helping this team win a cup. The 25th to 42nd overall from last year, isn't helping us win a cup. Name the player that went in the late 1st to Brunicke that would. Literally, name the exact player we missed on.

What you don't get is that, while Hextall is gone, the impact from the asset losses are still being felt which is why more people correctly place the blame on Hextall more so than Dubas at the moment. Right now, not having a 2nd pairing of Marino-Matheson is bigger issue than what it took to get $10mil EK and Gryz. Not having a 2C caliber Jared McCann is a big issue given that it's clear we need Malkin on the wing. All the while, we could have used the assets needed to move Petry, Rutta, and Granlund (and the f***ing 2nd round pick it took to get him) to improve the roster. Instead, it was cleanup work from Day 1.

Now, if Brunicke, Howe, and McGroaty all fail in 5 years, then yeah, you can blame Dubas for the state of the team. As is, when it comes to how good we are, Hextall's impact is much more prevalent. If you have Marino-Matheson, there is no Petry, Rutta, Graves, Gryz...

That said, in a vague attempt to take a step back and find common ground, I don't any of this matters as much as we want to think because JR, Hextall, and Dubas have all elected to keep Mike Sullivan so...

Thinking those prospects is a youth movement is legitimately insane. They are fill ins for roster players that have a cup contending core.

Jared McCann, Matheson, and Marino are nobodies. Nothing about them matters.

 

[SEALBound]

Nah. Inside discord.



Thinking those prospects is a youth movement is legitimately insane. They are fill ins for roster players that have a cup contending core.

Jared McCann, Matheson, and Marino are nobodies. Nothing about them matters.

Which is why you don't "get it". Which is why its useless to argue with you.

 

[SomeDude]

Well there's like a 50/50 chance with goalies when projecting if they'll be good or bad. People gloating about winning a coin toss is kinda lame.

A lot of people also said we should have re-signed Ned, and that he's the answer. They said he's way better than Jarry. They were wrong.
They put up very similar numbers and always have since being the tandem.

Both .886 atm. Both disposable trash.

It’s not a 50/50 chance when you have direct data from previous years that clearly showed Jarry wasn’t it.

 

[cookthebooks]

there was a really good string of posts yesterday thoroughly discussing the whole '1st for jake' thing, but now that thats past some folks can get right back to acting like thats the harshest indictment of dubas imaginable.

dubas has been mediocre as hell, but that doesnt mean hes an abject disaster. he needed to be a wizard and he wasnt and it sucks