Boston Bruins 24-25 Roster/Cap thread VII

[BruinDust]

Noone ever said E. Lindholm was hoping to be a powerplay savior ... he was the best of what was available for free agents centers this past summer.

He was brought in for a few reasons - to give some stability to the center position, to allow other players to slot into the lineup more in accord with their abilities (it's not Lindholm's fault some players are still on summer vacation), and most importantly because those whom we did have playing center last year were exposed as a weakness in the playoffs when matchups matter most.

This issue with Lindholm isn't Lindholm himself. In a non-salary cap league, every fan here would be happy to have him. His cap hit isn't even that bad. The term is disgusting for a player of his caliber however but thats the price to get in on UFAs, especially in a shallow market.

But this is a cap league and the Bruins had much bigger problems than the center ice position. Even if you subtract Kastelic, they were adequately stocked at C considering they've used 8 guys there this year. And it's unfortunate that the coaches and management seem to believe you can just shift centers to the wing and get the same performance.

If they desperately wanted Lindholm to upgrade C, then move on from Coyle as they have basically the same role and skill-set. It was like having a Honda Accord that was perfectly fine and adding a Toyota Camry to the fleet. When what they need was to add a corvette and a convertable roadster (goal scoring/play driving wings).

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

This issue with Lindholm isn't Lindholm himself. In a non-salary cap league, every fan here would be happy to have him. His cap hit isn't even that bad. The term is disgusting for a player of his caliber however but thats the price to get in on UFAs, especially in a shallow market.

But this is a cap league and the Bruins had much bigger problems than the center ice position. Even if you subtract Kastelic, they were adequately stocked at C considering they've used 8 guys there this year. And it's unfortunate that the coaches and management seem to believe you can just shift centers to the wing and get the same performance.

If they desperately wanted Lindholm to upgrade C, then move on from Coyle as they have basically the same role and skill-set. It was like having a Honda Accord that was perfectly fine and adding a Toyota Camry to the fleet. When what they need was to add a corvette and a convertable roadster (goal scoring/play driving wings).

Was there one available?

What would he cost?

 

[Hookslide]

Noone ever said E. Lindholm was hoping to be a powerplay savior ... he was the best of what was available for free agents centers this past summer.

He was brought in for a few reasons - to give some stability to the center position, to allow other players to slot into the lineup more in accord with their abilities (it's not Lindholm's fault some players are still on summer vacation), and most importantly because those whom we did have playing center last year were exposed as a weakness in the playoffs when matchups matter most.

I know you think the contact amount is an albatross, but in a couple of years as the cap goes up it 'could' look like a bargain; ... the equivalent of 5 or 6 million dollar contract today.

Hell, I gave Swayman all kinds of crap about his ask for his contract, not because he isn't worth the money, but because it put a stranglehold on the team's cap THIS year. I am willing to give Swayman time to get up to speed after missing camp and don't fault him/his play much at the moment because the team in front of him has been crap.
I really wish he took a 1 yr deal for less money this yr and got his play day next year, because our hands are really tied this year to make any moves.

Need to give E. Lindholm time to settle in and find his place. He is not going to be a savoir, but he is going to be a very important piece going forward.

He hasn't played bad, but it doesn't help that the rest of the team has been so out of sync and Montgomery keeps changing Iines seemingly almost every shift. Very hard to learn your linemates tendencies that way, to know where they will be on the ice in a given situation, when the linemates changes game to game.

There are far larger problems with this team than E. Lindholm

I against the Linholm signing, before he was even signed, the talk was they needed a 1C, he is not that, I have never said he was a bad player, but I have said he is not worth the money, and I see little value in him. You must admit 7 years a close to 8 mil is a bit much. You had two centers last year that had 45 goals and 120points, for for about 2mil more combined. I also never said negative things about Swaymans, play, but felt he was unproven for the contract he was looking for and I also said I would have moved on from him, I get the impression Cam Neely would have a greed with me at the time. What was trying to point out and now I being proven right they have squat cap space to improve this team. That is bullshit that you will give Swayman, time to get up to speed, because he missed camp, his choice. Sweeney misread the whole situation with Swayman and as a result moved from Ullmark, and I know that his no trade list was able to be changed July 1st. So now we are where I said we would be in deep shit.

 

[BruinDust]

Was there one available?

What would he cost?

Which was part of the problem.

It's not hindsight I said before July 1st what I felt the Bruins needed and if it wasn't there (which it really wasn't, especially once Guentzel went early to TB), just stand pat, hold onto the cap space and wait for the opportunity. They could of gone into the season with what they had and would of been no worse off. GMs aren't obligated to have every available cap dollar spent.

So now they have a major problem (lack of offensive ability) and no cap space to fix it. Even if an opportunity arises they can't take advantage of it. A franchise in complete purgatory.

If Lindholm was the guy they really wanted last summer, then move on from Coyle and his 60 pt. season. Good luck moving him now. Instead they've allocated way too many cap dollars and roster space on guys who essentially all bring the same skill-set to the table. A team that ices a roster of essentially a bunch of two-way forwards and grinders with one legitimate scoring threat. You can't win like that in today's NHL.

 

[Hookslide]

Which was part of the problem.

It's not hindsight I said before July 1st what I felt the Bruins needed and if it wasn't there (which it really wasn't, especially once Guentzel went early to TB), just stand pat, hold onto the cap space and wait for the opportunity. They could of gone into the season with what they had and would of been no worse off. GMs aren't obligated to have every available cap dollar spent.

So now they have a major problem (lack of offensive ability) and no cap space to fix it. Even if an opportunity arises they can't take advantage of it. A franchise in complete purgatory.

If Lindholm was the guy they really wanted last summer, then move on from Coyle and his 60 pt. season. Good luck moving him now. Instead they've allocated way too many cap dollars and roster space on guys who essentially all bring the same skill-set to the table. A team that ices a roster of essentially a bunch of two-way forwards and grinders with one legitimate scoring threat. You can't win like that in today's NHL.

I agree with much of what you said, but move from Coyle and add Lindholm,do you add Lindholm at the same contract, because to me the contract is the biggest issue for me.

 

[PlayMakers]

Whats really bothering me is we didn't really get involved in this. Collin Graf is tearing it up for San Jose Barracuda.

4-9-13 in 10 games and some of the goals have been just filthy.

Especially with him being a local kid and having an opening for top six talent, I still don't know why they didn't make him a priority.

Who knows if it's translatable to the big league but it at least gives you an option and a free one at that.

Yeah I really wanted him last year.

 

[bruins cup]

Was there one available?

What would he cost?

In 2 years that actually will be a very good contract he will be underpaid

 

[JAD]

This issue with Lindholm isn't Lindholm himself. In a non-salary cap league, every fan here would be happy to have him. His cap hit isn't even that bad. The term is disgusting for a player of his caliber however but thats the price to get in on UFAs, especially in a shallow market.

But this is a cap league and the Bruins had much bigger problems than the center ice position. Even if you subtract Kastelic, they were adequately stocked at C considering they've used 8 guys there this year. And it's unfortunate that the coaches and management seem to believe you can just shift centers to the wing and get the same performance.

If they desperately wanted Lindholm to upgrade C, then move on from Coyle as they have basically the same role and skill-set. It was like having a Honda Accord that was perfectly fine and adding a Toyota Camry to the fleet. When what they need was to add a corvette and a convertable roadster (goal scoring/play driving wings).

I respect you opinion ... personally I wanted them to add a proven play making center along with Lindholm ( and yeah i get the point about contract legth ... and as you said in FA teams over spend and over commit). Maybe they tried, I don't know. ... Chandler Stevenson? IDK. There is always next year if any are available and there is still the need.

Just curious, who in FA were or was the goal scoring/play driving winger that was available to sign? Or were you thinking trade?

Personally, I think Lindholm is better than Coyle, but that is my preference. Maybe, if Poitras continues to develop Coyle becomes expendable next year? That is if there is such redundancy.

And I too am not a fan of constantly flip floping a center to the wing and back again. It's like they want everyone to be interchangeable. It seems like more than half the forwards are centers ... some collected off scrap heaps of other teams ... no wonder we have a problem.

 

[BruinDust]

I respect you opinion ... personally I wanted them to add a proven play making center along with Lindholm ( and yeah i get the point about contract legth ... and as you said in FA teams over spend and over commit). Maybe they tried, I don't know. ... Chandler Stevenson? IDK. There is always next year if any are available and there is still the need.

Just curious, who in FA were or was the goal scoring/play driving winger that was available to sign? Or were you thinking trade?

Personally, I think Lindholm is better than Coyle, but that is my preference. Maybe, if Poitras continues to develop Coyle becomes expendable next year? That is if there is such redundancy.

And I too am not a fan of constantly flip floping a center to the wing and back again. It's like they want everyone to be interchangeable. It seems like more than half the forwards are centers ... some collected off scrap heaps of other teams ... no wonder we have a problem.

I wanted them to stand pat and save the cap space. What they need wasn't available really.

 

[bme44]

Absolutely not, Jake was part of the problem. What they should have done, use the money and get a player that has the same skill level but more consistency and better drive to win. Sweeney went for the route that he hoped Geekie, Brazeau or Lysell would fill up the void he left but they don´t have the skill to play in the top 6.

To get the player you are talking about the cost would be much higher. For value the Debrusk contract is very good

 

[BruinDust]

I agree with much of what you said, but move from Coyle and add Lindholm,do you add Lindholm at the same contract, because to me the contract is the biggest issue for me.

Just thinking about how they allocated their cap space for this year. Lindholm's term is and always will be concerning.

There is something to be said for having more cap flexibility in 2 years that they would of had if they had just kept Coyle and ignored Lindholm.

 

[Hookslide]

Just thinking about how they allocated their cap space for this year. Lindholm's term is and always will be concerning.

There is something to be said for having more cap flexibility in 2 years that they would of had if they had just kept Coyle and ignored Lindholm.

That will not be a popular statement, with the Coyle haters.

 

[Kegs]

I’d look to add Taylor Hall back 50% retained. As long as it doesn’t more than a 2nd. He was great at zone entries. Slap him on Pastrnak’s LW. Prevents Pastrnak carrying the puck through the neutral zone (less turnovers). His contract expires after this season

It was a shame to lose Hall especially with debrusk leaving town.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

In 2 years that actually will be a very good contract he will be underpaid

Who are you talking about?

 

[Sevendust]

I don't recall that at all.



So where do you get that player?

Who is that player?

How much would that player cost?

Free agency or trade

If you chose free agency, would have loved to sign Teuvo Teräväinen. Top 6 player, playmaker, can play on every forward position, responsible defensive game. Showed up the playoffs in the past. 30 years of age. Victim of the numbers game in Carolina

Teräväinen was signed by Chicago for 5.4 million. Maybe would have signed for less in Boston. A little bit better cap managment by Sweeney in trying to not waste too much cap space on a backup goaltender and two third pairing defensemen would have surely giving the possbility to get this team another top 6 forward.

 

[PlayMakers]

It was a shame to lose Hall especially with debrusk leaving town.

Hall has put up 10 points in 24 games for Chicago. I think unloading him when we did was a big win.

 

[wintersej]

At this point I'd try 5 forwards on the power play.

I don't think it matters until they have a second threat to score. I think everyone has been focused on McAvoy, and I'm not giving him a free pass, but your point man doesn't have to be your second threat to score either. Swapping McAvoy for Hampus for isn’t really going to do shit IMHO. It’s still an easy PP to defend.

I've liked E Lindholm’s game, but I thought Elias would add much more Bergeron-ness in the bumper. Marchand had never been a one timer threat on the PP. McAvoy obviously isn’t that guy either. Nor is Zacha/Coyle/Johnson/whomever.

Going five forwards is fine if you have a Krejci you trust up there and enough forwards that you wish you could play them all on the PP.

Don’t think the Bruins check either of those boxes.

 

[wintersej]

This issue with Lindholm isn't Lindholm himself. In a non-salary cap league, every fan here would be happy to have him. His cap hit isn't even that bad. The term is disgusting for a player of his caliber however but thats the price to get in on UFAs, especially in a shallow market.

But this is a cap league and the Bruins had much bigger problems than the center ice position. Even if you subtract Kastelic, they were adequately stocked at C considering they've used 8 guys there this year. And it's unfortunate that the coaches and management seem to believe you can just shift centers to the wing and get the same performance.

If they desperately wanted Lindholm to upgrade C, then move on from Coyle as they have basically the same role and skill-set. It was like having a Honda Accord that was perfectly fine and adding a Toyota Camry to the fleet. When what they need was to add a corvette and a convertable roadster (goal scoring/play driving wings).

I hear what you are saying but don’t think it’s so cut and dry.

1) I challenge you to find anyone thinking they were stocked at C last year, especially after the playoffs.
2) Coyle has shown no ability to play with higher end players, while Lindholm has. It’s more of a Toyota vs entry level Lexus analogy.
3) I 1000% agree that Coyle out and a winger in makes sense on paper, but there was only one winger that fit the bill for that in Guentzel.

Could the Bruins match the pitch Tampa made? I know which situation I would choose. If you start dipping into the next level of guys like Turbo, you are just paying a bunch to block a prospect that looked an NHL ready at the end of the year and plays the same game. Disappointing camp for Lysell, of course, but I think the reasoning was sound.

 

[bruins cup]

Who are you talking about?

Lindholm

 

[BruinDust]

I hear what you are saying but don’t think it’s so cut and dry.

1) I challenge you to find anyone thinking they were stocked at C last year, especially after the playoffs.
2) Coyle has shown no ability to play with higher end players, while Lindholm has. It’s more of a Toyota vs entry level Lexus analogy.
3) I 1000% agree that Coyle out and a winger in makes sense on paper, but there was only one winger that fit the bill for that in Guentzel.

Could the Bruins match the pitch Tampa made? I know which situation I would choose. If you start dipping into the next level of guys like Turbo, you are just paying a bunch to block a prospect that looked an NHL ready at the end of the year and plays the same game. Disappointing camp for Lysell, of course, but I think the reasoning was sound.

I didn't say stocked, but it was far from a huge problem either. Could it be improved? Sure it could. Was it anywhere close to the No.1 priority or the reason they lost to Florida again. No. They lost to Florida because they could get any sustained zone time (meaning they spent way more time in their own zone) and couldn't finish the chances they did create. The weakness in the dot made it seem like their center ice depth wasn't adequate but that's only one small piece of the equation. We are seeing it now with Zacha back in the middle and suddenly looks good again. The front office's evaluation of the center position was poor when we really boil it down. And we know full well they don't value speed or shooting ability but get all excited over "two-way" ability.

Coyle seemed like he could play just fine with Marchand who is a higher end player. I don't buy the argument that he couldn't play with high end players or skill players. He gelled with Johansson when he was here. Hall as well.

So trade Coyle in the off-season and save the cap space if there were no scoring wings that fit the bill. Coming of a 60 point season they would of found him a home. They didn't have to solve everything in one summer.

Lysell shouldn't change their thought process one way or the other. I wasn't disappointed in his camp as I never felt he was a legitmate threat to break camp this year. It went as anticipated.

 

[Oates2Neely]

Hall has put up 10 points in 24 games for Chicago. I think unloading him when we did was a big win.

Chicago sucks though. Hall is on a line with Kurashev & Bertuzzi. I’d argue skating with Lindholm & Pastrnak would be an upgrade of talent. At 3 million if he scores 50 points that’s a major win.

In 3 regular seasons with the Bruins:
16 points in 18 games
61 points in 81 games
36 points in 61 games

In the playoffs with Boston:
25 games played, 10 goals, 7 assists, 17 points

 

[BiteThisBurrows]

I didn't say stocked, but it was far from a huge problem either. Could it be improved? Sure it could. Was it anywhere close to the No.1 priority or the reason they lost to Florida again. No. They lost to Florida because they could get any sustained zone time (meaning they spent way more time in their own zone) and couldn't finish the chances they did create. The weakness in the dot made it seem like their center ice depth wasn't adequate but that's only one small piece of the equation. We are seeing it now with Zacha back in the middle and suddenly looks good again. The front office's evaluation of the center position was poor when we really boil it down. And we know full well they don't value speed or shooting ability but get all excited over "two-way" ability.

Coyle seemed like he could play just fine with Marchand who is a higher end player. I don't buy the argument that he couldn't play with high end players or skill players. He gelled with Johansson when he was here. Hall as well.

So trade Coyle in the off-season and save the cap space if there were no scoring wings that fit the bill. Coming of a 60 point season they would of found him a home. They didn't have to solve everything in one summer.

Lysell shouldn't change their thought process one way or the other. I wasn't disappointed in his camp as I never felt he was a legitmate threat to break camp this year. It went as anticipated.

I read the whole string here and you seem to want it both ways and it's impossible.

The bottom line is trying to build a roster via free agency is next to impossible. Free agents almost always demand more money and term than they are worth and many of those deals age badly. You build through the draft and you plug a few holes with free agents that get offset by your entry level deals. When you spend years trading away your prospects and drafting somewhat poorly you are going to fall. It's inevitable.

So management here felt if they spent more and got the bigger names they could still make a go of it. Looking like they got that wrong. Lindholm is a solid hockey player, but he's not Bergeron, he's not even Bergeron lite. Lindholm's big year was on a line with Gaudreau and Tkachuk. I think people underestimate the impact Tkachuk has on his linemates.

So Lindholm's a good 2C but we still wanted him to be a 1C, and we don't have one. (Coyle is a great 3C)

So yes, maybe we shouldn't have spent the money on him, but we wouldn't be better, we'd be even worse. So you'd save the money for next year or the year after what would be the point of that?

Bottom line is if you didn't spend the money now you might as well tear down to speed up a rebuild. Trade Marchand. Trade Frederic. Trade a bunch of older guys. You probably should have traded Swayman. But if you did that, you could still get the drafts wrong.

I suspect the Bruins will keep spending to the cap and they will stay relatively competitive, but probably miss the playoffs year after year (or maybe squeak in sometimes when things go well) but not really tank and so they won't get really good again until they get really lucky in the draft and it could be many years to come.

 

[PlayMakers]

I don't think it matters until they have a second threat to score. I think everyone has been focused on McAvoy, and I'm not giving him a free pass, but your point man doesn't have to be your second threat to score either. Swapping McAvoy for Hampus for isn’t really going to do shit IMHO. It’s still an easy PP to defend.

I've liked E Lindholm’s game, but I thought Elias would add much more Bergeron-ness in the bumper. Marchand had never been a one timer threat on the PP. McAvoy obviously isn’t that guy either. Nor is Zacha/Coyle/Johnson/whomever.

Going five forwards is fine if you have a Krejci you trust up there and enough forwards that you wish you could play them all on the PP.

Don’t think the Bruins check either of those boxes.

I hear what you're saying and also see teams overplaying Pasta right now, but I think that's more because he's the only one willing to shoot, everyone else is looking to pass.

I mean, most teams in the league don't have multiple 40 goal scorers on their PP. Chicago doesn't and they have a top10 PP. Lots of teams out there with worse personnel that are doing better than our B's.

When I watch our PP, it's pass, pass, great look! but another pass, and then a pass that's off the mark and now it's out of the zone. So for me, they need another guy who's willing to shoot. I don't even think he has to be a great threat to score, you have the numbers, just get the puck to the net and go to work down low.

It's frustrating for me because when Charlie Coyle scored on the PP last week they had a few great rotations and I thought it was a scheme (I literally have my team run that exact same setup with two forwards on either side of the net instead of a bumper and a net front) but it looks now like it was just an off the cuff play by Coyle and Marchand and not a scheme.

 

[The don godfather]

I think elias lindholm is a excellent player great signing . 2 way players that produce are impossible to find and hes in his prime at 29 years old.

 

[BruinDust]

I read the whole string here and you seem to want it both ways and it's impossible.

I'm not really sure what you mean by this but all I'm saying is that they don't have to solve every problem in each given off-season. I was fine with them waiting for an opportunity to acquire legit offensive help, it was clear that is what this franchise is lacking IMO.

If they feel Lindholm is an upgrade over say Coyle, then sign Lindholm and trade Coyle when they had a chance. They certainly didn't need to over-allocate money and roster space for essentially more of the same (middle of the line-up two-way centers).

Call it what it is, the spent money for the sake of spending money. Never solved any of their real problems. And now they have serious issues and the can't, they won't have an sort of significant cap space to work with until next off-season.

Why does not spending all the available cap space = well just as well rebuild? Can an NHL GM not just be patient? Good players do become available via trade in-season but it's hard to capitalize on those players when you have no cap flexibility, which the Bruins never seem to have.

You seem to want an all or nothing approach. Spend/spend/spend in the offseason right to the cap, or tear it all down and trade everyone away. Times have changed, you can walk the middle ground now if a GM is both smart and patient. I probably wouldn't of said that 10 years ago but the league is different now. Rising cap, expansion, seeing the way some teams do business (somewhat ruthlessly has changed the game for NHL GMs.