Is there some special insight you have over the hockey world (players, coaches, GMs, writers) as to the significantly higher value placed on goalscoring vs. playmaking/2-way play?
24/25 McDavid vs. 14/15 Crosby
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Is there some special insight you have over the hockey world (players, coaches, GMs, writers) as to the significantly higher value placed on goalscoring vs. playmaking/2-way play?
McDavid is having his worst season ever, you could argue his first 2 years but the game has changed and he was kid.
He is currently playing his worst hockey ever, since January first he has 19 points in 18 games.
Since January 26th, a whole month when posting this, he is -11, which is worst in the entire league.
He is in a generational slump right now.
He is currently playing his worst hockey ever, since January first he has 19 points in 18 games.
Since January 26th, a whole month when posting this, he is -11, which is worst in the entire league.
He is in a generational slump right now.
I'm sorry you're just a crosby fanboy personified, like you have serious problems comparing that trash to mcdavid right now. I watched both in their primes and peaks. mcdavid has dusted crosbys legacy with or without a cup. mcdavid probably has 4 seasons better then sids best.not only that the competition was trash during that year which is even worse for your argument
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Video Nasty
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- Mar 12, 2017
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McDavid showing signs of mortality in 2024-2025 is still being a level of player greater than Crosby in 2014-2015.
That said, there’s no argument that he’s not having the worst regular season of his career. To me, he still has lingering injury issues, but I’m not interested in trotting out excuses for him because his resume doesn’t demand them.
It will be easier to swallow if he has another scintillating postseason that ends in another Conn Smythe, but this time paired with a Cup.
The difference with season 10 of their careers is that McDavid has been automatic up to this point.
Streaks that seem likely to be snapped this year:
8 consecutive seasons of finishing at worst top 3 in raw points.
9 consecutive seasons of finishing minimum top 3 in PPG.
8 consecutive seasons of finishing minimum top 2 in PPG.
8 consecutive seasons of finishing minimum top 5 in Hart voting.
That’s virtually his entire career and will be a run that likely ends up being 40-50% of his overall career. Big difference when highlighting why certain seasons for certain players are seen as failures.
That said, there’s no argument that he’s not having the worst regular season of his career. To me, he still has lingering injury issues, but I’m not interested in trotting out excuses for him because his resume doesn’t demand them.
It will be easier to swallow if he has another scintillating postseason that ends in another Conn Smythe, but this time paired with a Cup.
The difference with season 10 of their careers is that McDavid has been automatic up to this point.
Streaks that seem likely to be snapped this year:
8 consecutive seasons of finishing at worst top 3 in raw points.
9 consecutive seasons of finishing minimum top 3 in PPG.
8 consecutive seasons of finishing minimum top 2 in PPG.
8 consecutive seasons of finishing minimum top 5 in Hart voting.
That’s virtually his entire career and will be a run that likely ends up being 40-50% of his overall career. Big difference when highlighting why certain seasons for certain players are seen as failures.
Interesting, had to go look that up....kind of a random time period, but whatever. When I looked up stats for that period and sorted for worst +/-, Stamkos stuck out big time. McDavid is the worst at -11 through 9 games, but he at least has 8pts. Stamkos, over 9 games, had 0 goals and 0 assists and is -10.
Crosby has been awesome. McDavid is a way more prolific scorer. I don’t think we there’s a real argument to be had about who will have had a better individual career when it’s all said and done if McDavid remains healthy. And Crosby fans don’t need to be upset about it or try to argue otherwise. Both guys are a treat to watch.
The fails to take into account total ice time for the top players though. And just the fact that when everyone in the league isn’t scoring much it says more about the environment than the individuals. Actually it says everything about the environment really.
Paul4587
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It’s Crosby. McDavid by his own standards has been terrible this year - he’s still probably just a top 10 player in the league where as Crosby was probably still top 3-5 in 14-15.
For McDavid this is his worst season by far since 2019-20 when he was recovering from the leg injury.
For McDavid this is his worst season by far since 2019-20 when he was recovering from the leg injury.
The distribution of these points has changed, which is omitted from doing this piecemeal breakdown. For example, PP% is higher now, so top line players can get more points in less TOI with the man advantage, freeing up more ice time at ES.
WalterLundy
Registered User
I don’t think doing an ice time adjustment would do much for me personally. You play what you play in my mind.
I would be tempted to believe you about the environment over the individuals until you see some of these names. A 36 year old Pavel Datsyuk had a higher points per game than Ovi or Malkin did. Jiri Hudler and Jakub Voracek were essentially matching Malkin and Ovechkin in points per game. Nick Foligno outdid Claude Giroux. Jamie Benn WON the scoring title. Tyler Seguin essentially matched Sidney Crosby per game.
To me it is entirely evident that while the environment for scoring was certainly low, the top guys failed miserably. In the first dead puck era players like Jagr and Forsberg achieved separation from these types of players. I will hold the Crosby/Ovechkin/Malkin/Kane group to a higher standard. Their inability to create separation per game from the likes of Foligno/Hudler/Voracek/Tyler Johnson/geriatric Datsyuk shows me all I need to see. It was a black eye on the product.
This is a year that was so bad that I never want to revisit anything resembling it in the future.
No amount of consideration going into an adjustment method can overcome how hot garbage this year was compared to anything we have seen since 2019. Nothing can be done to salvage the failures of the stars in this season. You know that hopefully.
The ice time is one of the main reasons the top scorers scored less then, even relative to the league goals per game at the time.
Also, in the first dead puck era look at the ice time of the top scorers. More ice time and powerplay time equals more points across the board. Case closed.
Jonathan Huberdeau essentially matched McDavid in points per game in his Art Ross winning season. These little examples do not really mean all that much, especially when scoring was so suppressed at the top.
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WalterLundy
Registered User
The 4 highest skaters for points in 2015 still played roughly 20 minutes per game with the 4 highest right now playing 21 and some change on average. I don’t personally see that as anything that can salvage this and make it close to any of the recent seasons we have seen in the league. Someone else can give it a go if they want.
In 2022 Huberdeau had his best season that he will ever have by leaps and bounds and McDavid still did win the art Ross in a very average year for him. That Huberdeau year still adjusts to around 15 points higher than Benn’s 2015 in two less games and McDavid in a relatively average 2022 campaign bested that.
Sure more ice time will cause points to rise across the board to an extent but Jagr in 1999 for example actually created separation from good players. A year in which you lose an Art Ross to Jamie Benn is different than that. I wish it wasn’t the case because I was genuinely upset that year that Crosby didn’t win. Should have been a guarantee even with a few missed games.
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