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'24-25 Former Predators Thread

Willy has been entrenched on the wrong side of the Saros conversation from the jump. He was dogmatic in his view that Saros/Askarov was the tandem needed because Rinne/Saros transition proved successful. He refused to believe Askarov would be ready for starting time or that Saros would have any ability to decline with age. He also dismissed the idea that Askarov would become unhappy in the event of a Saros contract or that not giving him NHL games would give any opportunity for vexation.

While the Rinne/Saros transition was about as ideal as you could expect, you can't use ideals to build a team. You have to allow room for all the other occurrences/possibilities to play out...which is exactly what happened.

As a team, we have consistently found goaltenders, even when we had secured starters. There are several current NHL goaltenders that have come and gone on to be solid starters/high end backups that passed through our system or pipes over the years. It made sense at the time to trust that development strength and stick with the guy we had clearly highlighted as a high-end talent in Askarov. Assigning an unrealistic trade value to Saros at the time, to me, was one of the biggest mistakes. I understand he was valuable, but teams trading for him were absolutely factoring in the possibility of decline, age, and contract much like we should have. I know hindsight is 20/20, but in this case, many had the foresight to say none of these things made sense. I wasn't vocal about some of these things, but I felt strongly about the return expectations in a Saros deal. He may not have gotten the franchise changing deal they wanted, but a strong trade for assets or a proven player would have changed the course of where we currently stand. Now, his value is minimal bordering on negative value, and we'd be lucky to return much for him aside from clearing his impending deal.
 
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Flgatorguy87 said:
Wild to me that Tolvanen is only 25. We really did start his clock pretty early...I mean I get it he's a first rounder but perhaps patience pretty well anywhere along the way would've given a different outcome.
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At that time Poile was still rushing prospects into the NHL because there were so few prospects overall and almost no quality prospects. It was the same with Fabbro. Hell, even Vesey was supposed to be an immediate impact player during those years.
 
At the end of the day, it's not at all difficult to get Saros-level goaltending - the level we have gotten basically the last 2 seasons - without needing to pay a guy that much money or lock him in for 8 years. I think that's the bottom line. He has been average enough the last two years that you could plug in a wide range of cheaper options on shorter contracts. I thought it was unnecessary to give him that contract after his *one* mediocre season last year. But now he has stacked them back-to-back.

I would just like to know what the calculus is, or the pro scouting, or Mitch Korn's expert analysis, whatever - that should make us have faith in Saros for 8 more years? Because if I could give him away right now, and get nothing back at all, I'd do it. There are a bunch of goalies slated for free agency this summer - Vladar, Allen, Hill, Vanecek, Samsonov, Vejmelka, Forsberg, Lindgren, Lankinen... yeah, none of them are going to win a Vezina or be an All-Star or whatever. But that's basically the same level we're getting from Saros, so... :dunno:
 
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ShagDaddy said:
Hold up, are you advocating for over cooking prospects? 🤣
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Certainly not overcooking, but development isn't linear, especially once a guy gets to the NHL. We don't see the best out of some guys until their mid 20's, especially in guys who aren't all world talent. I think the patience that would have served best for Tolvanen and several of these guys would be allowing them consistency in their ice time and linemates while they develop.
 
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Flgatorguy87 said:
Certainly not overcooking, but development isn't linear, especially once a guy gets to the NHL. We don't see the best out of some guys until their mid 20's, especially in guys who aren't all world talent. I think the patience that would have served best for Tolvanen and several of these guys would be allowing them consistency in their ice time and linemates while they develop.
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You mean 8-10 minutes a night on a grind line might not be the best way to develop a finesse player?
 
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Flgatorguy87 said:
Wild to me that Tolvanen is only 25. We really did start his clock pretty early...I mean I get it he's a first rounder but perhaps patience pretty well anywhere along the way would've given a different outcome.
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He played roughly 1.5 seasons in Milwaukee and 1.5 seasons in Nashville. His TOI went down between his first .5 season and the second full season. In his final stretch (which I didn't count as playing), he sat in the pressbox and his TOI, in the few games he played, was much reduced. Then he was gone. You could say his development was linear by the Predators—linear in a steadily decreasing way.

By the way, he's now scored a goal in 4 straight games for the Kraken and has 5 points in those 4 games. This is his second full season in Seattle and the media consistently rave about him. He's taken Kappo under his wing, as well. New coach, new system, a bunch of line juggling with injuries, and he's on a pace to put up better offensive numbers than last year.
 
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herzausstein said:
I would say it's the sharks so not shocking but Georgiev did pretty good after he came in. Might just be a rough outing for him. His sv% has slowly dipped down to below .900 but i dont know if any goalie could have good stats there at this time
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Oh, to clarify: his save percentage in the second period was 0%. He faced 3 shots and all of them went in.

He was actually pretty good in the last game.
 
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I feel like there playstyles are different but Tolvanen is a lot like a Craig Smith. You always kind of want more from him and he's streaky but at the end of the year he'll usually end up as a half a point per game guy, which at the right price is a really nice piece to have for your middle six.
 
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Kat Predator said:
He played roughly 1.5 seasons in Milwaukee and 1.5 seasons in Nashville. His TOI went down between his first .5 season and the second full season. In his final stretch (which I didn't count as playing), he sat in the pressbox and his TOI, in the few games he played, was much reduced. Then he was gone. You could say his development was linear by the Predators—linear in a steadily decreasing way.

By the way, he's now scored a goal in 4 straight games for the Kraken and has 5 points in those 4 games. This is his second full season in Seattle and the media consistently rave about him. He's taken Kappo under his wing, as well. New coach, new system, a bunch of line juggling with injuries, and he's on a pace to put up better offensive numbers than last year.
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Hadn't considered that type of linear development
 
Kat Predator said:
Oh, to clarify: his save percentage in the second period was 0%. He faced 3 shots and all of them went in.

He was actually pretty good in the last game.
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Playing on such a shitty team may ruin his confidence. Which is cool because after he made us trade him I hope he tops out as a journeyman backup.
 
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