Prospect Info: 22nd Overall Tobias Bjornfot, Defence

[kovacro]

Hoping this Tobias will turn out to be better than the last Tobias we had.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Hoping this Tobias will turn out to be better than the last Tobias we had.

Bearfoot could turn around and fire it into our own net and he'd still be better and more productive than the last one.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Hoping this Tobias will turn out to be better than the last Tobias we had.

His dance moves already make him better.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

If you had an ounce of objectivity and weren’t terrified of admitting Bjornfot may not turn into a bonafide top four defenseman, you’d be able to see the near identical scouting reports and circumstances surrounding both Hickey and Bjornfot.

Both were both rated in the low first round/high second round.

They both came out of drafts with notably shallow pools of top end defensemen.

They were both lauded for their leadership abilities.

They were both captains in their draft years.

They were both considered good skaters.

They were both average sized defensemen.

They were both considered two way defensemen.

Their ceiling was/is considered top four PMD, not #1-2 defensemen.

Etc, etc. They’re not identical prospects, but they are very similar. You need to dismiss what Hickey is NOW and consider what he was in 2007.

My comparing Bjornfot to Hickey is not the indictment you’re twisting it to be. In fact, it’s the exact opposite; it’s praise. It’s a ****ing insult to Hickey’s rating as a prospect in 2007 to call this comparison “hyperbole.” Hickey was a well rated defensive prospect. So is Bjornfot now.

And the statistical ****ing reality is that Alex Turcotte will be the only 2019 Kings draftee to play more than 200 NHL games. Statistically, Bjornfot, Kaliyev, Fagemo, all of these kids will play a couple of seasons AT BEST before finishing out their short careers in Europe.

So if a 22nd overall defenseman is the hill you want to die on, so be it.

If you had an ounce of honesty, you wouldnt twist things so much.

You compared him with Hickey who ended up as a bottom pairing defenseman like you said yourself. Thats what your were thinking two pages ago. What a praise. Why should I suddenly dismiss what Hickey is now. You pointed out that very well.

Heck, what is your point than anyway.

On top of that you made some other remarks I just cant not agree with. It was worrysome that such a good skater didnt put better numbers but his numbers are actually more than fine.

It has nothing to do with my objectivity. He may turn out into a major bust. I just say there is nothing wrong with the pick at that spot and can not agree with some remarks about it.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

As Yannetti said, getting to 22, there were 2 defensemen they wanted bewtween 22 and 33 and 4 forwards. They got one of each. If they took the 'dead heat' equal forward there (Tomasino?) they would have not got a defensemen
they wanted at 33...and they got Kaliyev there.

They are also putting a higher value on character and leadership...building a culture. Both Turcotte and Bjornfot have that in spades. Skill is not just on the offensive side of the puck and it also involves getting the puck in your zone
and getting it out of there quick. You must be able to skate at a high level. You must get the puck to your forwards quickly and cleanly. Or skate it out. The videos demonstrate Tobias can surely do that. The kid skates very well,
makes great reads, coverages, 1 on 1 play, blocks shots, battles well, is on the 1st PK, 2nd PP and captains his team...which won the U-18. His teammates and coaches say glowing things about him. Ruutu said he almost never
makes a mistake - ever.

Durzi is high end offensive talent, Mikey Anderson has put up a lot of points (#1 in the nation this past year in defensemen pts in March, I believe) and Clague has offense ability. If Bjornfot does not
put up a ton of points, but is stellar on D, kills penalties, moves pucks out of the zone consistently, quickly, and often skates from the Kings goal, thru center ice and into the offensive zone, he'll be
doing an outstanding job. He;s not a defensive defenseman only. You cannot be named defenseman of the year, by being merely a defensive defeseman...you do not get to captain teams, without
being on of the top performers, players, and leaders.

You can't keep polishing defensemen that are 6th rd choices and college free agents and expect to be a contending team. Defensive defenseman like: Scuderi, Mitchell, Greene, and back to Norstrom,
rarely, or NEVER skated the puck from his goal through neutral ice and into the attacking zone. Bjornfot does it often and at near elite speed. That's because he's not a defensive defenseman
and closer to Voynov, than the aforementioned.

The Kings only won cups, after bringing leaders and character players in: Stoll, Greene, Richards, Williams, Mitchell, Scuderi, Regher. The management knows the new
players coming on, there must be high caliber character and leaders...that's why they drafted JAD, Mikey Anderson, and what Turcotte and Bjornfot have. The Kings
just drafted 4-6 players that will make impacts.

if you're all hellbent on offense, then get hellbent on getting lackluster zero-offense dead weight off the team, like Lewis and Carter...and 3 pp goal, 2 pp assist Toffoli off the team.
Those 3 do nothing for the offense. "we need better practices" Toffoli. "Are you going to retire?" (question asked of Carter, as Press Conf ) "No, I have 3 years left on my contract" - Carter.
Basically stating, "I collect my paycheck for 3 more years"...when he could have said "I have a lot more hockey to play and looking forward to turning things around here"

 

[Peter James Bond II]

And that’s exactly where I think a player like Bjornfot is worth picking: the 2nd round.

But to be honest, I think we agree more than we disagree here. I think you believe I’m disputing things I’m not, and misinterpreting some of my points.

1. Yes, I do believe Bjornfot needs to improve his offensive production. That is not the same as saying, “you need to be a scorer to play in the top four,” which is hyperbolized absolutism. I don’t believe that and I never said that.

2. If Bjornfot’s strength is a two way game, yes, he does need to improve the offensive side of his game.

3. Yes, a fully developed Willie Mitchell at 28 years old is worth picking in the 1st Round. But those kinds of defenders rarely if ever have a fully developed defensive game at 18. This is why no one is looking for Willie Mitchells and Rob Scuderis in the 1st Round. Those kinds of players are typically found in later rounds and slowly developed in a farm system. Overall, this point is somewhat of a tangent, but worth clarifying.

4. Lastly, again, my contention is not whether Bjornfot is worth drafting. My contention is whether he is worth drafting at 22nd overall. Ultimately, the Kings got the player I wanted at 22nd overall anyway, so none of this really matters. It’s the mere principle of drafting a player like Bjornfot that high, when he would have likely been available well into the 2nd round. That’s really all I’m saying.

I’m happy we drafted Bjornfot. But do I think he’s worth picking at 22nd overall? No, I do not.

Well, you didn't like the Kupari pick as well. He's clearly shown he's an elite talent and has a bright future. One year later, what is your opinion of the Kupari pick now?

from Akil Thomas drafted rd 2 thread page 1 :::::::::::
___________________________________________________________
I was displeased with the Kupari pick, to say the least, but I think this pick is fantastic.
SettlementRichie10, Jun 23, 2018ReportBookmark
23Like+ Multi-QuoteReply

_________________________________________________________

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Well, you didn't like the Kupari pick as well. He's clearly shown he's an elite talent and has a bright future.

from Akil Thomas drafted rd 2 thread page 1 :::::::::::
___________________________________________________________
I was displeased with the Kupari pick, to say the least, but I think this pick is fantastic.
SettlementRichie10, Jun 23, 2018ReportBookmark
23Like+ Multi-QuoteReply

_________________________________________________________

What exactly is this supposed to mean? I’ve said from the get-go that I like Bjornfot. You’re fighting windmills here, Quixote.

And for the record, I only disliked the Kupari pick AT THE TIME because Veleno was still on the board. And Veleno is developing just as well as Kupari. He’s one of Detroit’s best prospects. So that turned out to be a fair criticism.

I wish I could go back and review what you’ve said about all of our prospects in a pedestrian effort to ad hominem. If only I had as much free time as you apparently do.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

What exactly is this supposed to mean? I’ve said from the get-go that I like Bjornfot. You’re fighting windmills here, Quixote.

And for the record, I only disliked the Kupari pick AT THE TIME because Veleno was still on the board. And Veleno is developing just as well as Kupari. He’s one of Detroit’s best prospects. So that turned out to be a fair criticism.

I wish I could go back and review what you’ve said about all of our prospects in a pedestrian effort to ad hominem. If only I had as much free time as you apparently do.

It's nothing personal. Just wondered why you didn't like the Kupari pick. Nothing ad hominem here.

 

[funky]

Who knows what would have happened if we didn’t pick Bjornfot at 22. Say we took a forward such as Tomasino at 22nd. Maybe Nashville takes Kaliyev at 24 in his place.

Let’s just be happy that we landed a stud center, a true shutdown Dman that can skate and make that first pass, then landed not only 1 sniper at 33 but a second offensive threat at 50.

We added leadership and skill at this draft to a prospect cupboard that needed skill added. Leadership is a bonus as we have guys like Anderson and Phillips in the system but could always use more.

Although not a lamp lighter If we land the Swedish version of Mickey Anderson Inthink we could all be happy

 

[Fishhead]

Who knows what would have happened if we didn’t pick Bjornfot at 22. Say we took a forward such as Tomasino at 22nd. Maybe Nashville takes Kaliyev at 24 in his place.

This is a great point. I think Yzerman going off the board made teams that were targeting a certain D-man panic a bit, which snowballed. Going into the draft, I would have easily bet that Kaliyev would have been taken before Bjornfot. But after watching how things were unfolding I think it became more and more obvious that Kaliyev was going to be a 2nd rounder.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

It's nothing personal. Just wondered why you didn't like the Kupari pick. Nothing ad hominem here.

But it is personal. You’re trying to cast doubt on my current opinion of Bjornfot by judging my past opinion of Kupari. Think about how ridiculous that is.

If you’re going to play “gotcha” with my past posts, you may as well do a thorough deep dive. I’m all over that 2018 Draft Day thread advocating for Veleno. That’s the only reason I didn’t like Kupari in the beginning. But then he took a huge step forward and I became much more comfortable with the pick.

It is what it is. I think Kupari has a ton of potential. I think Bjornfot is an acceptable pick with the context of Kaliyev falling to us at 33. None of these kids have even played a single game in the NHL. Are we seriously going to measure our dicks with prospects who have yet to play a single professional game?

I just think it’s a bitch move to sift through my past posts in a glorified attempt at assassinating my credibility. If I went through your posts, I’m sure I could do the same.

I typically enjoy and respect you as a poster, but that’s bad form.

 

[lumbergh]

You compared him to Thomas Hickey earlier. Now you say i rely on hyperbole. I think that is very strange.

Thomas Hickey might not be a black hole but he is damn close to it, unfortunately, because i seriously rooted for him. He put up some points but mostly because he got too much playing time on a horrible team and certainly isnt 2nd pairing material.

Off topic, but why does Hickey such a joke around here? Solid career so far, ~20 points per season. I mean, if he's picked at #22 overall, that's not too shabby. Not a bust, just picked too high and beaten out by a better player in Muzzin. If Bjornfot has a career like Hickey with more strength and better defense, that's great value for a late 1st round pick.

Quit using Hickey as a punchline.

 

[bland]

Off topic, but why does Hickey such a joke around here? Solid career so far, ~20 points per season. I mean, if he's picked at #22 overall, that's not too shabby. Not a bust, just picked too high and beaten out by a better player in Muzzin. If Bjornfot has a career like Hickey with more strength and better defense, that's great value for a late 1st round pick.

Quit using Hickey as a punchline.

Especially considering so many lamented about passing on Alzner in that spot.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Especially considering so many lamented about passing on Alzner in that spot.

To be fair, Alzner has appeared in 682 games, and 64 in the playoffs. Hickey has been hampered by injuries and has appeared in 449 games, 24 in the playoffs.

The poor asset management with Hickey is probably more upsetting than his selection. They opted to keep Davis Drewiske (who they later got rid of for a 5th round pick). The Kings also went out and acquired another lumbering defenseman, Keaton Ellerby, that same season Hickey was waived. Rather than keep Hickey around, they preferred to keep a defenseman who was five years older and didn't appear in another NHL game after his nine game stint in Montreal.

That right there is a display in ineptitude.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Off topic, but why does Hickey such a joke around here? Solid career so far, ~20 points per season. I mean, if he's picked at #22 overall, that's not too shabby. Not a bust, just picked too high and beaten out by a better player in Muzzin. If Bjornfot has a career like Hickey with more strength and better defense, that's great value for a late 1st round pick.

Quit using Hickey as a punchline.

Yes you are right regarding Hickey that he was just picked too high. Though he is still a 6th/7th defenseman. That is not good value for a 1st round pick IMO.

I have never disliked him at all.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

But it is personal. You’re trying to cast doubt on my current opinion of Bjornfot by judging my past opinion of Kupari. Think about how ridiculous that is.

If you’re going to play “gotcha” with my past posts, you may as well do a thorough deep dive. I’m all over that 2018 Draft Day thread advocating for Veleno. That’s the only reason I didn’t like Kupari in the beginning. But then he took a huge step forward and I became much more comfortable with the pick.

It is what it is. I think Kupari has a ton of potential. I think Bjornfot is an acceptable pick with the context of Kaliyev falling to us at 33. None of these kids have even played a single game in the NHL. Are we seriously going to measure our dicks with prospects who have yet to play a single professional game?

I just think it’s a ***** move to sift through my past posts in a glorified attempt at assassinating my credibility. If I went through your posts, I’m sure I could do the same.

I typically enjoy and respect you as a poster, but that’s bad form.

I respect your opinion too. I did not search any of your previous posts. Not one. I was reading The Mayor's 5 questions piece with Akil Thomas and then wanted to link it here (and give Mayor credit) and I thought why not post it on the Akil Thomas draft day thread from last year. I found it and read the 3 pages of posts, to see what we all said about Thomas on his draft day. I saw that you liked the pick and didn't like the Kupari pick...and was asking you why you didn't like that pick. Good call on Veleno! He's a good player.

 

[cyclones22]

Off topic, but why does Hickey such a joke around here? Solid career so far, ~20 points per season. I mean, if he's picked at #22 overall, that's not too shabby. Not a bust, just picked too high and beaten out by a better player in Muzzin. If Bjornfot has a career like Hickey with more strength and better defense, that's great value for a late 1st round pick.

Quit using Hickey as a punchline.

Hickey didn't work out here in LA, obviously. Lombardi and company somehow got into the situation where he could only keep one of Muzzin and Hickey because of the waiver rules and Muzzin rightly was chosen. That being said, Lombardi shouldn't have gotten into that situation to begin with. Hickey obviously was not worth the #4 overall selection, but he's a legit NHL player who has averaged over 18 minutes of ice time over his career. That's second pairing minutes. A good team's second pairing? Probably not, but it's not bad.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I respect your opinion too. I did not search any of your previous posts. Not one. I was reading The Mayor's 5 questions piece with Akil Thomas and then wanted to link it here (and give Mayor credit) and I thought why not post it on the Akil Thomas draft day thread from last year. I found it and read the 3 pages of posts, to see what we all said about Thomas on his draft day. I saw that you liked the pick and didn't like the Kupari pick...and was asking you why you didn't like that pick. Good call on Veleno! He's a good player.

Ah, I understand then. Thanks for clarifying. I hope all three of Turcotte, Bjornfot, and Kaliyev reach their potential, as it would vault the Kings right back into contention by 22/23.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

If you had an ounce of honesty, you wouldnt twist things so much.

You compared him with Hickey who ended up as a bottom pairing defenseman like you said yourself. Thats what your were thinking two pages ago. What a praise. Why should I suddenly dismiss what Hickey is now. You pointed out that very well.

Heck, what is your point than anyway.

On top of that you made some other remarks I just cant not agree with. It was worrysome that such a good skater didnt put better numbers but his numbers are actually more than fine.

It has nothing to do with my objectivity. He may turn out into a major bust. I just say there is nothing wrong with the pick at that spot and can not agree with some remarks about it.

I don't know how else to explain this to you. Both Hickey and Bjornfot have very similar scouting reports. That's the comparable. Full stop. The end. Over. Fin.

If Bjornfot turns into a solid bottom pairing PMD, he will have already beaten the odds. Players drafted outside of the top ten have less than a 20% chance to play over 200 games in the NHL.

You are the one with literally, statistically unrealistic expectations of Bjornfot. Not me.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

I don't know how else to explain this to you. Both Hickey and Bjornfot have very similar scouting reports. That's the comparable. Full stop. The end. Over. Fin.

If Bjornfot turns into a solid bottom pairing PMD, he will have already beaten the odds. Players drafted outside of the top ten have less than a 20% chance to play over 200 games in the NHL.

You are the one with literally, statistically unrealistic expectations of Bjornfot. Not me.

Who are you to say that my expectations are unrealistic while I think he may turn into a better player than Hickey ? Hickey, Thomas Hickey. That is just laughable.

You were the one who had concerns about his offensive awareness too because his skating was so good. How could that be..

The numbers in his junior league actually show the opposite. Those are cold hard facts but you just ignore it. You had seriously no idea that 11 goals and 11 assists in the J Super Elite is pretty good. Lets face it.

No, you come up with a scouting report that gives you Hickey vibes. Well great, than what is your point actually. All your comments, two pages ago showed how you thought about Bjornfot and that was not very positive. Those werent only comparable scouting reports...

 

[kings11]

Im still very confused about the misunderstanding in regards to where Bjornfot was selected and his upside??

1- He is the best defensive defenseman drafted, yes better than Byram and Seider.
2- He not only uses his skating to nutralize opponents, he also skates the puck out and initiates offense
3- While he may not score zee goals, he will generate a ton of assists in the NA style game because he can skate the puck out, he can make the outlet pass, he can get his shot to the net, Think Erik Karlsson's ability to just make the simply, timely pass that leads to scoring opportunities...
4- He's already 200+lbs and skates like the wind, hence the odds are he grows another 1-1.5" and gains another 8-10lbs and will be 22-23YO when he comes over... 6-2ish, 215lb defenseman that will be coming over not to join the Reign but to take someones defensive spot..

5- WTF, are you guys really complaining about?? his upside??? at worse he looks like a #4, at best he could be at Doughty's side locking people down.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

4- He's already 200+lbs and skates like the wind, hence the odds are he grows another 1-1.5" and gains another 8-10lbs and will be 22-23YO when he comes over... 6-2ish, 215lb defenseman that will be coming over not to join the Reign but to take someones defensive spot..

Possible. Hickey was also 5'11 and approx 20 lbs less....when he was drafted,

 

[King'sPawn]

I mean, I don't know why we keep comparing Bjornfot to Hickey while scouts (and Christian Ruutu agreed) he compares to Ryan McDonagh.

 

[kings11]

Possible. Hickey was also 5'11 when he was drafted,

Bjornfot is already a few ticks over 6ft, and weighed in at 205lbs.. 93kg

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Who are you to say that my expectations are unrealistic while I think he may turn into a better player than Hickey ? Hickey, Thomas Hickey. That is just laughable.

You were the one who had concerns about his offensive awareness too because his skating was so good. How could that be..

The numbers in his junior league actually show the opposite. Those are cold hard facts but you just ignore it. You had seriously no idea that 11 goals and 11 assists in the J Super Elite is pretty good. Lets face it.

No, you come up with a scouting report that gives you Hickey vibes. Well great, than what is your point actually. All your comments, two pages ago showed how you thought about Bjornfot and that was not very positive. Those werent only comparable scouting reports...

My point is that Bjornfot in 2019 is a comparable prospect to Hickey in 2007. How many times do I need to say it? You're the one reading all these negative connotations into such a comparison. If Bjornfot carves out the same NHL career as Hickey, he will have literally beaten the odds.

And no, 11-11-22 are not fantastic numbers in the Junior Super Elite league. Neither are they terrible. They're perfectly average, if not a hair above average. I never denied nor lambasted his actual statline in the JSE, though I find it hilarious that you admonished me for "stat watching" just a few posts ago and now you're doing the exact same.

Bjornfot also had 22 points in 17/18 (6-16-22), and failed to build upon that offensive development. That's exactly why every scouting report lists his offensive development as a concern. Every major scouting report also lists Bjornfot's tendency toward conservative, passive offensive play as a hole in his game. I'm not just pulling that out of thin air. Are you seriously nitpicking the semantics between "average offensive game" and "pretty good offensive game"?

What did I actually say from the beginning?

- Bjornfot's realistic ceiling is a bottom pairing PMD, which is consistent with every available statistic surrounding defensemen drafted outside of the top ten.

- Bjornfot needs to further develop his offensive game to turn into a top four defenseman, which is consistent with his size and skating ability.

- Bjornfot's scouting reports are very similar to Thomas Hickey's reports in 2007.

- I like Bjornfot.

- I'm happy the Kings drafted Bjornfot.

- He is not a bluechip prospect.

And what have you said in response? All you've done is scream about how his offensive game is actually pretty good and somehow every major scouting service didn't realize this and how dare me or anyone else compare him to Thomas Hickey.

So whatever, dude. I'm about done with you here. I don't know what else to tell you. I like Bjornfot. I hope he turns into the next f***ing Erik Karlsson. But the actual statistical odds suggest he may not even play a single game in the NHL much less turn into a 40 point top four PMD.