GDT: #22 | Golden Knights at Flyers | Monday, November 25, 2024 | 7:00 PM | NBCSP, 97.5 FM

[Beef Invictus]

FLYERS: 9-10-2 (7th in Metro)
GOLDEN KNIGHTS: 13-6-2 (1st in Pacifico)

Philadelphia Flyers - Vegas Golden Knights - Nov 25, 2024 | NHL.com

NHL Gamecenter - Philadelphia Flyers vs. Vegas Golden Knights, Nov 25, 2024 - summary, stats, boxscore, play by play, recap and more.

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FLYERS LINEUP

Owen Tippett - Sean Couturier - Travis Konecny
Joel Farabee - Noah Cates - Bobby Brink
Tyson Foerster - Morgan Frost - Matvei Michkov
Scott Laughton - Ryan Poehling - Garnet Hathaway

Cam York - Travis Sanheim
Emil Andrae - Rasmus Ristolainen
Nick Seeler - Helge Grans

Fedotov
Kolosov

Injuries

Ersson (DTD?)
Drysdale (IR)
Ellies (There sighs, complaints, and ululations loud/Resounded through the air without a star,/Whence I, at the beginning, wept thereat.)

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GOLDEN KNIGHTS LINEUP

Ivan Barbashev - Jack Eichel - Alexander Holtz
Tomas Hertl - Nicolas Roy - Keegan Kolesar
Brett Howden - William Karlsson - Pavel Dorofeyev
Tanner Pearson - Cole Schwindt - Cal Burke

Brayden McNabb - Shea Theodore
Noah Hanifin - Zach Whitecloud
Nicolas Hague - Kaedan Korczak

Hill
Samsonov

Injuries

Pietrangelo (DTD)
Stone (DTD)
Olofsson (IR)
Hutton (IR)

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GDT SONG




STATS

5v5, On-Ice, Rates, Score & Venue Adjusted

Last 3 Weeks

Goalies

Click to read more...

 

[Danko]

Morgan

 

[Alex K]

Morgan

 

[deadhead]

It will be funny if Grans turns out to be a solid NHL D-man.

Basically a throw-in, Peterson (salary dump) for Walker, Grans & 2nd rd pick, makes picking up that 2x$5M look pretty good (actually $3.75M b/c Peterson is buried in the AHL).

He always had the raw tools, had a good AHL at 19 but then spun his wheels for a couple seasons in the AHL, including last season when he showed little at LHV.
Then shows up this year and on the top pair at LHV and now looking good his first few games at the NHL level.

Of course, it could just be a SSS fluke and he'll come crashing back to earth in a few games.
Same of course holds with Andrae, but he's had a longer SSS.

 

[Danko]

Fedotov starts

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Grans *looks* like an NHLer.

Has size, is a very good skater.

He'll probably get exposed in larger sample sizes due to other deficiencies, but at least he doesn't look out of place in the NHL right now.

 

[Cody Webster]

And guess what, we never would have found out that Grans *looks* like an NHLer if it wasn't for injuries because they decide to play the corps of EJ over the young guys...but don't worry, they never block the youth

 

[deadhead]

And guess what, we never would have found out that Grans *looks* like an NHLer if it wasn't for injuries because they decide to play the corps of EJ over the young guys...but don't worry, they never block the youth

Grans didn't look like a NHL player last season in LHV, no one even saw him as a prospect.

Aug 18, 2024

Prospect Info: - 2024-25 Flyers Prospects - FINAL RANKINGS

SKATERS 1. Matvei Michkov 85.9% 2. Oliver Bonk 40.5% 3. Jett Luchanko 78.8% 4. Denver Barkey 77.8% 5. Emil Andrae 42.9% 6. Alex Bump 34.0% 7. Samu Tuomaala 26.5% 8. Massimo Rizzo 44.1% 9. Alex Ciernik 30.2% 10. Ronnie Attard 18.4% 11. Ilya Pautov 29.4% 12. Heikki Ruohonen 32.0% 13. Carter...

forums.hfboards.com

SKATERS
1. Matvei Michkov 85.9%
2. Oliver Bonk 40.5%
3. Jett Luchanko 78.8%
4. Denver Barkey 77.8%
5. Emil Andrae 42.9%
6. Alex Bump 34.0%
7. Samu Tuomaala 26.5%
8. Massimo Rizzo 44.1%
9. Alex Ciernik 30.2%
10. Ronnie Attard 18.4%
11. Ilya Pautov 29.4%
12. Heikki Ruohonen 32.0%
13. Carter Sotheran 25.0%
14. Elliot Desnoyers 30.4%
15. Jack Berglund 35.3%
16. Hunter McDonald 19.4%
17. Owen McLaughlin 23.1%
18. Spencer Gill 33.3%
19. Devin Kaplan 29.2%
20. Noah Powell 29.4%

GOALIES

1. Yegor Zavragin

Didn't make the list:
Jon-Randall Avon, Carson Bjarnason, Alexis Gendron, Adam Ginning, Helge Grans, Cole Knuble, Alexei Kolosov, Ryan MacPherson, Mateo Mann, Austin Moline, Ty Murchison, Ethan Samson, Santeri Sulku, Zayde Wisdom, Brian Zanetti.

 

[trostol]

but that's the point..it shouldn't take an injury for these guys to get a chance to see if they are NHL players or not

 

[tymed]

The dillusional youth blocking narrative is still going strong eh?

 

[BiggE]

Guess I’ll watch
Suffering builds character

 

[Cody Webster]

The dillusional youth blocking narrative is still going strong eh?

Remind me again why EJ is on this team?

Grans didn't look like a NHL player last season in LHV, no one even saw him as a prospect.

Aug 18, 2024

Prospect Info: - 2024-25 Flyers Prospects - FINAL RANKINGS

SKATERS 1. Matvei Michkov 85.9% 2. Oliver Bonk 40.5% 3. Jett Luchanko 78.8% 4. Denver Barkey 77.8% 5. Emil Andrae 42.9% 6. Alex Bump 34.0% 7. Samu Tuomaala 26.5% 8. Massimo Rizzo 44.1% 9. Alex Ciernik 30.2% 10. Ronnie Attard 18.4% 11. Ilya Pautov 29.4% 12. Heikki Ruohonen 32.0% 13. Carter...

forums.hfboards.com

SKATERS
1. Matvei Michkov 85.9%
2. Oliver Bonk 40.5%
3. Jett Luchanko 78.8%
4. Denver Barkey 77.8%
5. Emil Andrae 42.9%
6. Alex Bump 34.0%
7. Samu Tuomaala 26.5%
8. Massimo Rizzo 44.1%
9. Alex Ciernik 30.2%
10. Ronnie Attard 18.4%
11. Ilya Pautov 29.4%
12. Heikki Ruohonen 32.0%
13. Carter Sotheran 25.0%
14. Elliot Desnoyers 30.4%
15. Jack Berglund 35.3%
16. Hunter McDonald 19.4%
17. Owen McLaughlin 23.1%
18. Spencer Gill 33.3%
19. Devin Kaplan 29.2%
20. Noah Powell 29.4%

GOALIES

1. Yegor Zavragin

Didn't make the list:
Jon-Randall Avon, Carson Bjarnason, Alexis Gendron, Adam Ginning, Helge Grans, Cole Knuble, Alexei Kolosov, Ryan MacPherson, Mateo Mann, Austin Moline, Ty Murchison, Ethan Samson, Santeri Sulku, Zayde Wisdom, Brian Zanetti.

Crazy what happens when you actually play the young guys and let them get a taste of NHL hockey, especially when you're in a rebuild*

*we all know the team isn't actually rebuilding

 

[mr figgles]

The dillusional youth blocking narrative is still going strong eh?

How many thymes do they have to block younger players with old scrubs for you to see it?

 

[usahockey22flyers]

And guess what, we never would have found out that Grans *looks* like an NHLer if it wasn't for injuries because they decide to play the corps of EJ over the young guys...but don't worry, they never block the youth

Amen

 

[Tripod]

The internet remembers.

June 2023- Deadhead

"Grans will only be 21 next year, with 69 SHL games and 115 AHL games under his belt. Raw but with upside that makes sense for a rebuild.

So he'll compete for a spot in camp, and at worst, pair with Andrae in LHV next year.
He also makes it less likely they'll reach for a RHD in the 1st rd."

 

[deadhead]

The internet remembers.

June 2023- Deadhead

"Grans will only be 21 next year, with 69 SHL games and 115 AHL games under his belt. Raw but with upside that makes sense for a rebuild.

So he'll compete for a spot in camp, and at worst, pair with Andrae in LHV next year.
He also makes it less likely they'll reach for a RHD in the 1st rd."

Yeah, he added to their RHD depth.
Same way Gill and Molino will in two years.
At that time, he had a good AHL season at 20, and a mediocre one at 21.

But off his LHV season last year, he was more "he's still young" give him another shot than a real prospect going into this season.
And Andrae was OK, but nothing special in LHV last season.
Both really must have worked on their game over the summer, b/c they both took a step up.

 

[Tripod]

Yeah, he added to their RHD depth.
Same way Gill and Molino will in two years.
At that time, he had a good AHL season at 20, and a mediocre one at 21.

But off his LHV season last year, he was more "he's still young" give him another shot than a real prospect going into this season.
And Andrae was OK, but nothing special in LHV last season.
Both really must have worked on their game over the summer, b/c they both took a step up.

You can't keep your lies straight.

YOU are the one that 17 months ago gave him the value of a 2nd rounder and said having him means its less likely to reach on a RHD in the 1st rd.

Now YOU say he was basically a throw in.

A throw in never dictates what you do with your 1st rd pick less than a month later.

Just stop lying. It's OK to say YOU gave him value(2nd rd pick) when the Flyers added him, then he sucked and his value dropped, and now who knows...his play will dictate it.

No need to lie. And in case you need further proof of what you thought of him:

"if you think the RHDs in this draft are 2nd pair upside quality, there's less urgency to reach for one with Grans in the organization (and Attard). If you think a RHD is 1st pair upside quality, taking him at #7 wouldn't be a reach."

Anyways....let's move on.

 

[deadhead]

Where did I say he had 2nd rd value?
He was drafted in the 2nd rd, had a good season at 20, a meh AHL season at 21.
He added depth at a perceived position of need.

Players peak in value on draft day, then unless they have D+1 & D+2 seasons that show progress, they tend to decline in value until they become NHL starters.

I think it reflects as more information is available, the upside for most players diminishes (the median value may remain the same, but the range of values shrinks). Since for most players, upside is more important than their probable talent (i.e. you'd rather have a 25% chance of a top 4 D-man than 100% chance of a #6 D-man), as their upside chances decline, so does their overall value.

Now there are always exceptions, later bloomers who struggle for a few seasons then the light goes on - but good luck separating these prospects from the ones who simply turn out not to be as good as was thought on draft day.

 

[Tripod]

Where did I say he had 2nd rd value?
He was drafted in the 2nd rd, had a good season at 20, a meh AHL season at 21.
He added depth at a perceived position of need.

Players peak in value on draft day, then unless they have D+1 & D+2 seasons that show progress, they tend to decline in value until they become NHL starters.

I think it reflects as more information is available, the upside for most players diminishes (the median value may remain the same, but the range of values shrinks). Since for most players, upside is more important than their probable talent (i.e. you'd rather have a 25% chance of a top 4 D-man than 100% chance of a #6 D-man), as their upside chances decline, so does their overall value.

Now there are always exceptions, later bloomers who struggle for a few seasons then the light goes on - but good luck separating these prospects from the ones who simply turn out not to be as good as was thought on draft day.

I thought I was being kind with the 2nd rd value and not saying 1st.

You tell me....what value do YOU think someone has when YOU say having him:

Means they are less likely to reach on a RHD in the 1st AND if the RHD are 2nd pairing upside, no need to draft them because they had Grans....oh and Attard...lol.

CLEARLY you valued them both. And that's fine. Everyone is wrong. But don't sit here TODAY and pretend he was just a throw in with no value when you were advocating for making 1st rd decisions based on adding him in the trade.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Let’s not look passed how awful that process is too.

 

[deadhead]

Valued them as depth.

They weren't proven players, but when you put a depth chart together, you want to have options other than say Belpedio. And you want your prospects staggered so you don't have to cut half of them b/c they're out of options.

Here's where Wheeler had Grans in Feb 2023:

6. Helge Grans, RHD, 20 (Ontario Reign)​

There are three prospects ranked below Grans on this list who’ve been NHL regulars or close at some point in their young careers already, and yet I still think Grans belongs here on the upside of what he’s capable of becoming if he puts it all together.

The appeal of Grans, in the past, has been anchored in the legitimacy of his individual tools more than the sum of his parts. He’s a 6-foot-3, right-shot defenceman who is both mobile and talented. He’s comfortable with the puck. He has great hands for his size. He’s a superb passer on outlets and through offensive-zone lanes. And he’s at his best when he’s playing an aggressive style and taking risks to make things happen.

There’s still some rawness to his even-strength play and he can look a little stilted on his pivots, but his game has started to take form defensively as well. He has driven results with the Reign this year, and despite having played parts of five seasons at two top pro levels, he’s just still just 20. Grans has the potential to be a second-pairing defenseman with two-way value. There’s a balance to be struck with his mistakes and some of that just comes with continued reps. I hope they encourage him to play a highly-involved game, because that’s when his tools really shine. I’d rather see him looking to make things happen than playing passively.

And Feb 2024, after he was a Flyer

13. Helge Grans, RHD, 21 (Lehigh Valley Phantoms)​

[just the parts that were changed from above]

Grans’ development in the AHL has come with some challenges but I still think he’s got more potential than we’ve seen on a consistent basis if he puts it all together.

(though the production at the pro level hasn’t yet been there to reflect that). And he’s at his best when he’s playing an aggressive style and taking risks to make things happen. I think some of that has been coached out of him though.

Grans has the potential to be a bottom-pairing defenseman with two-way value if handled properly and patiently.