2026 Conn Smythe Winner is: Jordan Staal

[Divine]

I'm not just stat watching though. Watched this whole run. Put in the time.
It's about cumulative contributions, not brilliance in isolated rounds. At least that's the stated requirement on the trophy. It states "in the Stanley Cup playoffs", not "of the Stanley Cup Finals" or "for the winning team" or "in X round".
The only thing Ehlers has that helps his case is that he played 4 fewer games than Marner. But even if you give him those games, he wouldn't touch Marner.
Marner also had better defensive contributions than Ehlers (and Blake) in these playoffs.

Blake might have the strongest case on Carolina, in terms of contribution per minute played. It's true that he was an ES beast. But if you're playing 4 fewer minutes than Marner a night, influencing the game less because your coach doesn't trust you on special teams (Marner PKs and PP1's too) that's not something that should be swept under the rug.

Blake had 2 minutes on the PK in these playoffs and 49 on the PP. He got 2 PPP's.
Marner had 35 minutes on the PK, 2nd most among Vegas Forwards. And he had 79 minutes on the PP, with 8 PPP's. He was trusted in final minutes of games when defending a slender lead.
The guy just did everything in these playoffs you can realistically ask for from a winger. Even in the Finals, which people say he sucked in, he had 8 points in 6 games.

I think you're overrating Marner quite a bit here. The only thing that made his playoffs look anything above expected is the fact he got to light up Anaheim in the second round. Anaheim was 29th in goals against in the entire NHL. The 3 teams worse than them in GA are picking #1, 2, and 3 in this years draft. Dostal was also the worst goalie to step foot on the ice in these playoffs out of 25 goalies who played a game this playoffs.

Without Marner's Anaheim series his stats are:
16GP - 5G - 13A - 18P

So, you're effectively arguing his Anaheim numbers were so important against a team Vegas was heavily favoured to beat (and strugged both defensively and in net) that he should win the Conn Smythe in a losing cause.

That's not a very strong argument.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I think you're overrating Marner quite a bit here. The only thing that made his playoffs look anything above expected is the fact he got to light up Anaheim in the second round. Anaheim was 29th in goals against in the entire NHL. The 3 teams worse than them in GA are picking #1, 2, and 3 in this years draft. Dostal was also the worst goalie to step foot on the ice in these playoffs out of 25 goalies who played a game this playoffs.

Without Marner's Anaheim series his stats are:
16GP - 5G - 13A - 18P

So, you're effectively arguing his Anaheim numbers were so important against a team Vegas was heavily favoured to win (and strugged both defensively and in net) that he should win the Conn Smythe in a losing cause.

That's not a very strong argument.

So then if Vegas won in 7, with Marner, Staal, Blake and Ehlers doing nothing to sway results in games 6 and 7, you would be pissed that Staal, Ehlers or Blake didn't win?
No. Not a chance. You would have either said nothing or agreed that Marner is the best choice, simply because his team won.
I know this because everyone in these GDT's was saying Marner for Smythe. They weren't talking about those other 3.
The only thing that changed is that Carolina won instead of Vegas, and then they pivoted when they saw that was gonna happen, or after it happened.

It's all just BS.

 

[and 99 others]

I wonder if this becomes a historical debate in the years to come. Staal certainly passes the bar in a vacuum, but I can't help but think that there will be arguments made for players on both teams.

There will be serious debate if he's the worst player to ever win it, right up there with Justin Williams.

Not saying he wasn't clutch, the finals goal streak is very impressive and he definitely helped them win. It just shows what a weird year it was for the entire league

 

[Divine]

So then if Vegas won in 7, with Marner, Staal, Blake and Ehlers doing nothing to sway results in games 6 and 7, you would be pissed that Staal, Ehlers or Blake didn't win?
No. Not a chance. You would have either said nothing or agreed that Marner is the best choice, simply because his team won.
I know this because everyone in these GDT's was saying Marner for Smythe. They weren't talking about those other 3.
The only thing that changed is that Carolina won instead of Vegas, and then they pivoted when they saw that was gonna happen, or after it happened.

It's all just BS.

Yes, if Vegas won Marner has a strong argument.

Winning the Stanley Cup greatly helps your case for a Conn Smythe. However, I think if Marner finished with no points and -3 like he did tonight but Vegas wins and then in Game 7 Marner puts up the same stat line, there would be a strong case for Howden to win it over Marner as Marner would have effectively disappeared from the series after Game 3.

You’re clearly overrating Marner here. The hockey writers don’t feel the same way as you, which is why Marner doesn’t have it, and rightly so.

You basically think the Conn Smythe is the Art Ross of the playoffs. It’s never been that way. Most years the leading point scorer does not win the Conn Smythe even on the winning team.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Yes, if Vegas won Marner has a strong argument.

So then for what is an individual trophy, you support crediting individuals who got carried by teammates. That's what that means.
Because those last 2 ghosting games don't matter to you anymore, since his teammates saved him. You pivoted.

That makes zero sense. When grading an individual, you get a pass to be a passenger based on final outcomes? What the hell is that?
Since when did actual contributions stop mattering?

You’re clearly overrating Marner here. The hockey writers don’t feel the same way as you, which is why Marner doesn’t have it, and rightly so.

A lot of the hockey writers are f***ing morons. Go read Rob Rossi and Josh Yohe articles, the 2 most popular writers for the Penguins.
Half of the people on the Pens sub come to better conclusions.


Here is the esteemed Rossi, if you wanna put a face to a name. A petty manchild idiot.
Barry Trotz went on to win the Cup in 2018.

And look at the voting tallies on some of the awards. You often see 1st or 2nd place votes for someone who was clearly 5th or 6th best.

It's not me overrating Marner. I watched his whole run, which I highly doubt many did here. Certainly a small percentage of Canes fans did this.

 

[Plural]

I’m not sure how a better argument for “most valuable” could be made for a player.

When her carried them, they won. When he had off nights, no one else on his team could be counted on to do the same.

I think it's just the winning part. Not saying it makes sense but that's just how it is.

 

[Divine]

So then for what is an individual trophy, you support crediting individuals who got carried by teammates. That's what that means.
Because those last 2 ghosting games don't matter to you anymore, since his teammates saved him. You pivoted.

That makes zero sense. When grading an individual, you get a pass to be a passenger based on final outcomes? What the hell is that?
Since when did actual contributions stop mattering?

A lot of the hockey writers are f***ing morons. Go read Rob Rossi and Josh Yohe articles, the 2 most popular writers for the Penguins.
Half of the people on the Pens sub come to better conclusions.


Here is the esteemed Rossi, if you wanna put a face to a name. A petty manchild idiot.

And look at the voting tallies on some of the awards. You often see 1st or 2nd place votes for someone who was clearly 5th or 6th best.

It's not me overrating Marner. I watched his whole run, which I highly doubt many did here. Certainly a small percentage of Canes fans did this.

You're fighting harder for Marner's Conn Smythe than he was fighting to win the series.

Marner was the favourite to win the Conn Smythe after Game 3 - win or lose. Marner disappearing for 2 games while Staal scored 3 goals and Ehlers put up 6 points made him drop in the rankings. Marner disappearing again in an elimination game and contributing nothing except tipping the puck into his own net for the second goal sealed his fate for the Conn Smythe.

Marner jumping to avoid Ehlers shot to secure the victory for Carolina was also a horrible look, but lucky for him the votes were already in by then.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

You're fighting harder for Marner's Conn Smythe than he was fighting to win the series.

Marner was the favourite to win the Conn Smythe after Game 3 - win or lose. Him disappearing for 2 games while Staal scored 3 goals and Ehlers put up 6 points made him drop in the rankings. Him disappearing again in an elimination game and contributing nothing except a turnover that lead to the 1st goal and tipping the puck into his own net sealed his fate for the Conn Smythe.

There is nothing that can happen in a 2-game stretch that would erase that gap between him and Staal.
It's too small of a portion of the playoffs, and the gap was far too large going into game 5.

Elimination games count the same as game 1's. They just happen at the end and are more dramatic and viewed. But your team still needs to win 4 to advance.
Whether you dominate game 1 and suck in game 6, or dominate game 6 and suck in game 1, it's the same shit. Same contribution level to your team.
In fact if you suck in game 1, you may prevent your team from even reaching game 6. So coasting in game 1 is a really bad idea.

 

[Divine]

There is nothing that can happen in a 2-game stretch that would erase that gap between him and Staal.
It's too small of a portion of the playoffs, and the gap was far too large going into game 5.

Elimination games count the same as game 1's. They just happen at the end and are more dramatic and viewed. But your team still needs to win 4 to advance.
Whether you dominate game 1 and suck in game 6, or dominate game 6 and suck in game 1, it's the same shit. Same contribution level to your team.
In fact if you suck in game 1, you may prevent your team from even reaching game 7. So coasting in game 1 is a really bad idea.

Yeah, and Marner was bad 4 games in a 6 game series on a losing team, including the last 3.

Carolina won double the games that Vegas did in the finals. In large part due to Marner's disappearing act.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I think it's just the winning part. Not saying it makes sense but that's just how it is.

Then all they have to do to make it make sense is change the requirement for the trophy. Problem solved.
Clearly their original intention can't be adhered to in good faith, so they need to adjust.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Yeah, and Marner was bad 4 games in a 6 game series on a losing team, including the last 3.

Carolina won double the games that Vegas did in the finals.

Way too much focus on the Finals man. The playoffs are a long, difficult road, not a 2-week event. And the stated definition of the trophy encapsulates 4 rounds, not 1. Why even write it if it's not gonna be adhered to?

Being on the winning or losing team in the NHL is the most unreliable gauge ever for assessing an individual's play. For example, one of Crosby's best playoffs is 2018, when he had 21 points in 12 games. That's more points than when he won the Smythe in 2016, playing 24 games.
But they lost. That doesn't mean Crosby didn't do everything in his power to stop it. His teammates just weren't good enough.

If you care at all about fairness, watch their actual contributions on the ice, not what other players did around them. That's the only way to come to good conclusions.

 

[ES]

Carolina’s Jordan Staal is a convincing Conn Smythe Trophy winner as playoff MVP – Professional Hockey Writers Association

www.thephwa.com

Staal got 17 first-place votes, Hall four. 16 of the rows had those two as top two.

Marner got one second-place vote and three third-place votes.

Vegas-based reporter gave Bussi third-place vote.

 

[AvroArrow]

So not Marner? Lol.

Turns out the SCF is longer than 3 games, well deserved for Staal guy was an absolute monster in clutch moments. Toews type of performance

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Carolina’s Jordan Staal is a convincing Conn Smythe Trophy winner as playoff MVP – Professional Hockey Writers Association

www.thephwa.com

Staal got 17 first-place votes, Hall four. 16 of the rows had those two as top two.

Marner got one second-place vote and three third-place votes.

Vegas-based reporter gave Bussi third-place vote.

One second-place vote. So basically the most unethical voting ever for this award.

 

[AvroArrow]

Way too much focus on the Finals man. The playoffs are a long, difficult road, not a 2-week event. And the stated definition of the trophy encapsulates 4 rounds, not 1. Why even write it if it's not gonna be adhered to?

Being on the winning or losing team in the NHL is the most unreliable gauge ever for assessing an individual's play. For example, one of Crosby's best playoffs is 2018, when he had 21 points in 12 games. That's more points than when he won the Smythe in 2016, playing 24 games.
But they lost. That doesn't mean Crosby didn't do everything in his power to stop it. His teammates just weren't good enough.

If you care at all about fairness, watch their actual contributions on the ice, not what other players did around them. That's the only way to come to good conclusions.

Round 1 vs Utah (15th overall) 7 points in 6 games

Round 2 vs Anaheim (18th overall) 11 points in 5 games

Round 3 vs Colorado, injured Makar and Mackinnon (1st overall) 3 points in 4 games

Round 4 vs Carolina, 8 points in 6 games


We watched the games, stat padding against the 2 worst teams in the entire playoffs doesn't get you the Conn Smythe. For people that don't watch games and just stare at stat sheets, they can be fooled.

Context matters, showing up in big moments matters (Jordan Staal)

In the final 2 rounds, vs Colorado/Carolina, he only scored a goal 1 in game, which was his hattrick performance that included a literal own goal. He was arguably the worst star player in the final 3 games of the cup final

Its the same old story with Mitch. Shows up against bad teams in the playoffs, stat pads in 1/2 games and disappears for the rest of the playoffs. It was the same story in Toronto, he had like 7 points in the first 2 games vs Tampa Bay one year, and then like 4 points in the next 9 games, but all the guys who just stare at stat sheets "He's over a point per game!"


But also give Staal credit, he completely dominated the faceoffs, like dominated. And scored massive goals that completely changed the momentum in games, disrespectful to suggest he doesn't deserve it.

 

[Divine]

Marner wasn’t even close to winning the Conn Smythe despite some huge Marner fans in this thread. He finished 4th in Conn Smythe voting - with 6 points. Staal won with 97 points.

 

[PerttiPanttula]

How did Staal win with fewer points than Cole Caufield?

Stankoven, Blake, and Hall all deserved it more. Marner has more than double his points.

I guess this was a Conn Smythe for this specific series.

staal knew that the rink has two ends instead of one

 

[centipede2233]

There were a few reasons why Staal won. He broke a record of scoring in the first 5 games of a final, never done in nhl history. Secondly, he scored an iconic gwg in game 5. Thirdly, he had a face off winning % of 70. Highest in nhl history. And lastly, he was the long time captain and grizzled vet which ties this story nicely with a bow.

 

[PerttiPanttula]

20 years since his brother lifted the cup on the same team.

As a fan of hockey this one just feels good, i remember how hype his rookie season was with the upstart pens congrats canes fans this has been a long time coming

marc staal still has 20 years to wait for his cup

 

[OtherThingsILike]

I'm happy for Gronk, and the Hurricanes in general.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

But also give Staal credit, he completely dominated the faceoffs, like dominated. And scored massive goals that completely changed the momentum in games, disrespectful to suggest he doesn't deserve it.

I do give credit. Great Finals. Great faceoffs and great defense. That still doesn't mean he had an even remotely close playoffs to Marner.

We watched the games, stat padding against the 2 worst teams in the entire playoffs doesn't get you the Conn Smythe. For people that don't watch games and just stare at stat sheets, they can be fooled.

Who is "we"? I'd be surprised if the median Vegas games watched count in this thread is over 8, for these playoffs. Out of their 22 games.
Certainly not gonna trust what they "saw" after I watched 22.

Its the same old story with Mitch. Shows up against bad teams in the playoffs, stat pads in 1/2 games and disappears for the rest of the playoffs. It was the same story in Toronto, he had like 7 points in the first 2 games vs Tampa Bay one year, and then like 4 points in the next 9 games, but all the guys who just stare at stat sheets "He's over a point per game!"

Early games in series have equivalent value to late games. It's a race to 4 wins. Plain and simple.
Stop getting caught up in this garbage about only games 6 and 7 "really mattering".

 

[AvroArrow]

I do give credit. Great Finals. Great faceoffs and great defense. That still doesn't mean he had an even remotely close playoffs to Marner.

Who is "we"? I'd be surprised if the median Vegas games watched count in this thread is over 8, for these playoffs. Out of their 22 games.
Certainly not gonna trust what they "saw" after I watched 22.

Early games in series have equivalent value to late games. It's a race to 4 wins. Plain and simple.
Stop getting caught up in this garbage about only games 6 and 7 "really mattering".

Missing the point

Showing up consistently matters

Showing up in tight games, not just stat padding in blow outs matters

Showing up in the most difficult series/games matters



Stat padding in round 1/2 against bad teams that you would have beat regardless doesn't get you the MVP. Vegas wins both of those series even without Marner, then you get Colorado who's best 2 players who are both arguably top 5 in the world are injured,

The only series that really should have been a test was the finals, apart from the 1 monster game, he was dog shit. Probably the worst player in game 6 if we're being honest

 

[Divine]

Marner didn’t get a single first place vote, including by Vegas writers. One Vegas writer had him second after Staal - that’s the highest vote he had on any list.

Stop with the fake controversy. It wasn’t close - even by Vegas’ own media members.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Marner didn’t get a single first place vote, including by Vegas writers. One Vegas writer had him second after Staal - that’s the highest vote he had on any list.

Stop with the fake controversy. It wasn’t close - even by Vegas’ own media members.

Yeah except if the Knights won then all the votes would switch, no matter what Marner did in those last games.
So, sorry if I don't take stock in their votes being a reflection of what actually happened. They vote for winners, no matter how big the gap is.
They don't care about getting it right.

 

[CashMash]

So not Marner? Lol.

If it was an award for just the Final, sure. But it's not, so it should have been Marner without question.

What an absolute robbery to Marner. He was so far and above all his peers for the entire playoffs.

Staal feels like another send-off story, and shit like this makes it hard to take it serious. This is worse than Crosby in '16

Obviously should have been Marner, but Staal can thank the silly belief that the Conn Smythe winner should only come from the team that wins the cup.

Marner was a total non factor after his 3+1 performance.