2025 NHL Playoffs

[FiveTacos]

Evgeni Nabokov always stood out to me as being uninspiring in the playoffs but I never felt he was like fighting something, he just was kind of a small game goalie.

Nabokov was another one where by the end of the series you think he wasn't awful ... But he never felt particularly good either. And again, often the 2nd best goalie in the series.

With Helly, it almost looks like a mental block or something, like a golfer or hitter that has the yips. I feel for him, but if he can get that fixed, he might be incredible suddenly one year.

It would not surprise me if he went crazy one year. But some guys, it just never happens for them.

It feels like he needs to have one of those amazing games that makes him think, yeah I can do this. But when will he get that chance? He needs a signature game.

I think Jiggy having that 60+ save game right out of the gate in the playoffs must have been such a blessing ... He never had a chance to get nervous, he was just under siege right from the get go, and by the end his confidence must have been sky high. It was never going to be more difficult than that game.

Patrick Roy kind of the same thing happened.

 

[Mr Rogers]

Nabokov was another one where by the end of the series you think he wasn't awful ... But he never felt particularly good either. And again, often the 2nd best goalie in the series.



It would not surprise me if he went crazy one year. But some guys, it just never happens for them.

It feels like he needs to have one of those amazing games that makes him think, yeah I can do this. But when will he get that chance? He needs a signature game.

I think Jiggy having that 60+ save game right out of the gate in the playoffs must have been such a blessing ... He never had a chance to get nervous, he was just under siege right from the get go, and by the end his confidence must have been sky high. It was never going to be more difficult than that game.

Patrick Roy kind of the same thing happened.

Yeah Roy and Jiggy just had a thick skull, I can’t remember either of them ever having a bad game in the playoffs tho it must’ve happened, but certainly not often. I hope Hellebuyck can figure it out.

Tho I didn’t like him, Jonas Hiller was kind of in the same mold as Giguere. Felt like nothing phased him in big games.

 

[FiveTacos]

Yeah Roy and Jiggy just had a thick skull, I can’t remember either of them ever having a bad game in the playoffs tho it must’ve happened, but certainly not often. I hope Hellebuyck can figure it out.

To me playoff goalies are strong in a few of these categories:

1) No cheapies. Especially late in games. Paired with a strong defensive team, guys like this make you think it's hopeless when you're behind. Brodeur was a guy who specialized in this. And it's why that tying goal the other night shows that Stolarz is not a Cup solution.

2) God mode. Guys with this ability can seem unbeatable for games or entire series. All the greats had this, but also some next tier dudes like Richter and Quick.

The most overrated thing is the dude who makes spectacular acrobatic highlight reel saves, or also the guy who's just steadily good but average in category 1 and incapable of category 2. You can win a Cup with those guys like Osgood, but you'd better have a damn loaded team, and even then you're gonna lose a few years.

 

[JAHV]

The weird thing is that this isn't a career thing. Winnipeg made the playoffs 4 straight years and Hellebuyck was great. .921 save percentage in 30ish games. It's just the last three years that he's had a breakdown.

 

[The Duck Knight]

The weird thing is that this isn't a career thing. Winnipeg made the playoffs 4 straight years and Hellebuyck was great. .921 save percentage in 30ish games. It's just the last three years that he's had a breakdown.

They had a better roster then, especially during the WCF run. That team had size and two way play on D in Byfuglien, Myers, and good Trouba. Most importantly they had Scheifele/Little/Stastny/Lowry down the middle. Contrast that with their center depth now Scheifele/Namestinkov/Lowry/Barron. Also prime Laine and Wheeler.

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

now this is awesome

 

[JAHV]

They had a better roster then, especially during the WCF run. That team had size and two way play on D in Byfuglien, Myers, and good Trouba. Most importantly they had Scheifele/Little/Stastny/Lowry down the middle. Contrast that with their center depth now Scheifele/Namestinkov/Lowry/Barron. Also prime Laine and Wheeler.

Sure, but that shouldn't impact Hellebuyck that much, right? He was just as good in this regular season as he was in those regular seasons (actually better). So why the huge disparity in his postseason play with the same teammates?

 

[The Duck Knight]

Sure, but that shouldn't impact Hellebuyck that much, right? He was just as good in this regular season as he was in those regular seasons (actually better). So why the huge disparity in his postseason play with the same teammates?

More skill on the back end means cleaner breakouts and clears. More size means better gaps and shot blocking. More skill up front means they have more sustained possession. All things that contribute to less quality shots against. The raw numbers may be similar but I think what would be interesting is to contrast the quality of chances given up back then versus the the quality of chances teams are getting against him in recent years.

And I'm not absolving him at all. He 100% should be better. I just hate blaming goalies or giving them too much credit. Also never believed one bit in this Winnipeg roster.

 

[FiveTacos]

And I'm not absolving him at all. He 100% should be better. I just hate blaming goalies or giving them too much credit. Also never believed one bit in this Winnipeg roster.

Well there's the obvious times when a goalie gives up a bad one at a bad time, that just KILLS you. And there's clearly times when a goalie steals a game or even a series. Those are easy.

The tough calls are when the goalie doesn't play bad, but clearly didn't play at the level you need to win a tight series. If you do that you can get a ton of blame, and maybe not all deserved ... but if it's a guy who's considered an elite goalie that's also just not good enough. Because you can get that from a guy like a Freddie or a Stolarz or something who will cost a hell of a lot less. Hellybuck rightfully is held to a different standard.

 

[Mr Rogers]

To me playoff goalies are strong in a few of these categories:

1) No cheapies. Especially late in games. Paired with a strong defensive team, guys like this make you think it's hopeless when you're behind. Brodeur was a guy who specialized in this. And it's why that tying goal the other night shows that Stolarz is not a Cup solution.

2) God mode. Guys with this ability can seem unbeatable for games or entire series. All the greats had this, but also some next tier dudes like Richter and Quick.

The most overrated thing is the dude who makes spectacular acrobatic highlight reel saves, or also the guy who's just steadily good but average in category 1 and incapable of category 2. You can win a Cup with those guys like Osgood, but you'd better have a damn loaded team, and even then you're gonna lose a few years.

Interesting ways to think of it.

Sidebar, Brodeur was great indeed, but i take Roy 11 times out of 10

 

[Kalv]

Stars-Avs Game7 tonight. Should be an amazing game

 

[JAHV]

More skill on the back end means cleaner breakouts and clears. More size means better gaps and shot blocking. More skill up front means they have more sustained possession. All things that contribute to less quality shots against. The raw numbers may be similar but I think what would be interesting is to contrast the quality of chances given up back then versus the the quality of chances teams are getting against him in recent years.

And I'm not absolving him at all. He 100% should be better. I just hate blaming goalies or giving them too much credit. Also never believed one bit in this Winnipeg roster.

What I'm saying is this: with a better defense 5 years ago, he had a great save percentage in the regular season and a great save percentage in the postseason. With a worse defense the past three seasons, he's had a great save percentage in the regular season and been awful in the postseason. The defense changes between seasons but not from the regular season to the postseason. So unless something changes about the way they play defense in the postseason (under different coaches), it's got to be the goalie.

I also hate ascribing too much to small sample size goalie performance. But this is getting too regular to be coincidence. Something seems to be going on with Hellebuyck in the postseason.

 

[The Duck Knight]

What I'm saying is this: with a better defense 5 years ago, he had a great save percentage in the regular season and a great save percentage in the postseason. With a worse defense the past three seasons, he's had a great save percentage in the regular season and been awful in the postseason. The defense changes between seasons but not from the regular season to the postseason. So unless something changes about the way they play defense in the postseason (under different coaches), it's got to be the goalie.

I also hate ascribing too much to small sample size goalie performance. But this is getting too regular to be coincidence. Something seems to be going on with Hellebuyck in the postseason.

No I get what you're saying. It's just save percentage means nothing without knowing where the shots are coming from. Goalie A could stop 10 out of 11 perimeter shots while goalie B could stop 1 out of 3 breakaways. Who is having a better game? I think there is enough variance in Winnipeg with coaches and personnel between the "good" and the "bad" Helle. Regular season Jets could also be allowing lower danger chances in the regular season and then start bleeding chances in the playoffs.

At the same time I don't care enough to go and hunt down the data to analyze further.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

What I'm saying is this: with a better defense 5 years ago, he had a great save percentage in the regular season and a great save percentage in the postseason. With a worse defense the past three seasons, he's had a great save percentage in the regular season and been awful in the postseason. The defense changes between seasons but not from the regular season to the postseason. So unless something changes about the way they play defense in the postseason (under different coaches), it's got to be the goalie.

I also hate ascribing too much to small sample size goalie performance. But this is getting too regular to be coincidence. Something seems to be going on with Hellebuyck in the postseason.

Wait, so you don’t think the on Ice play, is any different from regular season to playoffs.

Like game 10 of the regular season, is the same as game 6 of the first round of the playoffs?

Basically, a good goaltender with a subpar defense can put up good numbers. A series where you play the same team 7 times possibly, a good coach can game plan against your flaws and weaknesses (in fact it’s the coaches job).

I’m just a little confused that you seem so shocked that an elite goalie can carry and team in the regular season and not in the playoffs. It seems pretty self explanatory to me.

 

[Big Fat Rebound]

It'd be one thing if Hellebuyck's numbers were relatively pedestrian but still passable. His save percentage in this series is .815. That's ghastly.

Every half-decent chance is ending up in the net. The team in front of him might be leaky, but at some point, you have to get a save.

 

[JAHV]

Wait, so you don’t think the on Ice play, is any different from regular season to playoffs.

Like game 10 of the regular season, is the same as game 6 of the first round of the playoffs?

Basically, a good goaltender with a subpar defense can put up good numbers. A series where you play the same team 7 times possibly, a good coach can game plan against your flaws and weaknesses (in fact it’s the coaches job).

I’m just a little confused that you seem so shocked that an elite goalie can carry and team in the regular season and not in the playoffs. It seems pretty self explanatory to me.

I don't buy that the defense plays so differently in the playoffs that a .925 goaltender becomes a replacement level goaltender. Or that any opposing coach can gameplan so perfectly as to cause that.

In other words, this is on Hellebuyck. Whether it's a slump or mental or the yips or whatever, this is not his defense's fault.

 

[FiveTacos]

I don't buy that the defense plays so differently in the playoffs that a .925 goaltender becomes a replacement level goaltender. Or that any opposing coach can gameplan so perfectly as to cause that.

In other words, this is on Hellebuyck. Whether it's a slump or mental or the yips or whatever, this is not his defense's fault.

Worse than replacement level right now. I mean, we KNOW what a good goalie looks like behind an all-time awful D ... it's still better than what he's showing now.

Every team, even an eventual Cup winner, has stretches where they have to lean on the goaltender. You'd think a Vezina level guy would be one you COULD lean on when you're struggling defensively. And the fact that this is now becoming an annual thing where his play slips in the postseason, is absolutely not something you can just explain away as the fault of the team in front of him. That excuse can apply to an ordinary goalie, not an elite one. Otherwise, what's the point of paying him $8.5m?

Like I said, maybe it just takes one game to break through mentally ... perhaps he puts up a 50 save shutout in game 7 and becomes invincible going forward. But he needs to do something. If he keeps doing this crap, then maybe the JETS are one of the teams that should be looking at Gibson.

 

[The Duck Knight]

Worse than replacement level right now. I mean, we KNOW what a good goalie looks like behind an all-time awful D ... it's still better than what he's showing now.

Every team, even an eventual Cup winner, has stretches where they have to lean on the goaltender. You'd think a Vezina level guy would be one you COULD lean on when you're struggling defensively. And the fact that this is now becoming an annual thing where his play slips in the postseason, is absolutely not something you can just explain away as the fault of the team in front of him. That excuse can apply to an ordinary goalie, not an elite one. Otherwise, what's the point of paying him $8.5m?

Like I said, maybe it just takes one game to break through mentally ... perhaps he puts up a 50 save shutout in game 7 and becomes invincible going forward. But he needs to do something. If he keeps doing this crap, then maybe the JETS are one of the teams that should be looking at Gibson.

I don't view him as an elite goalie and I never have because regular season stats really don't mean much to me. There's only like 2 or 3 goalies in the league I would want to give a big money long term deal to, (Vasy/Shesterkin). Even then Vasi has been almost as bad as Helle stat wise in the playoffs in the past 3 years.

 

[2faded]

Yea I'm sorry but the difference in play between the regular season and playoffs doesn't take you from a Vezina winner to .815 SV%. That's ridiculous.

 

[The Duck Knight]

Yea I'm sorry but the difference in play between the regular season and playoffs doesn't take you from a Vezina winner to .815 SV%. That's ridiculous.

Okay is Vasy terrible too? Did he forget how to stop the puck since the regular season? Or since his last "good" playoffs 3 years ago?

 

[FiveTacos]

I don't view him as an elite goalie and I never have because regular season stats really don't mean much to me.

Yeah, I've seen a lot of regular season goalies who for whatever reason couldn't hack it in the playoffs. No one of his stature though, which is what makes it so bizarre.

It's one thing to make a bunch of saves in a random shutout in January. But can you make 20 moderately tough saves without making a mistake, in a crucial game in May? And some guys even seem to relish the moments where the team has to rely on them, it's like when they're seeing lots of chances against, they say, "cool, bring it on, you're gonna be totally psyched out after I stop all of these."

Maybe that's the real trick, you gotta find a guy who actually WANTS to be the hero who pulls his team's chestnuts out of the fire. I mean, we all know the best goalies are a little weird.

 

[lwvs84]

Hopefully WC Dostal is playoff Dostal. If he's a guy that steps up when the games matter the most, this team can be dangerous.

 

[LePerilsofPerreault]

Jamie Benn Jamie Benning it up

 

[Big Fat Rebound]

MANSON!!

Nice backcheck from Douchene, who has had a terrible series

 

[The Duck Knight]

Gimme a Manson v Fowler series.