All The Kings Men
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- Apr 7, 2016
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That's the biggest reason I want them to not draft him.
More running gags and references from the 80s/90s?
I'm too old for this shit.
2025 NHL Entry DRAFT Thread
- Thread starter King'sPawn
- Start date
More running gags and references from the 80s/90s?
I'm too old for this shit.
RayMartyniukTotems
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- Jul 8, 2022
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Sounds like there may be some agents not looking at the best interest of the player in mind...so he plays next year in College so he's eligible to be a AHL Farm Hand in 2026 and making money...stay where you are boys there is no sure fire thing going to College...better the devil you know than...besides College plays like 40-45 games with little travel compared to CHL with 80-100 games and tonnes of travel kind of like the NHL eh?
KingsHockey24
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- Aug 1, 2013
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Herby
Now I can die in peace
I didn't see anybody who jumped out as somebody I'd be happy with taking in the 1st round from the NTDP this season, maybe that is being a bit unfair since we are talking about a late 1st round pick and maybe my mindset is more projecting a Top 15 pick and I know things usually get muddled in the first round beyond the top 15-20 picks, but this was a really lousy year for top talent in the NTDP.
I think I'd rather roll the dice on the Russian kid from Muskegon if he is there for the Kings. He has some high-end traits and is more naturally gifted than anyone on the NTDP, although obviously there are concerns with drafting Russians.
I think I'd rather roll the dice on the Russian kid from Muskegon if he is there for the Kings. He has some high-end traits and is more naturally gifted than anyone on the NTDP, although obviously there are concerns with drafting Russians.
- Jul 1, 2003
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My horses from the USNTDP if the Kings go that route would probably be in this order:
McKinney
Moore
Murtagh
What would yours be, assuming they go that route?
Ryabkin is definitely intriguing. He's pretty inconsistent with what little I've seen, which is also the issue with Moore. Ryabkin has better instincts and is more naturally skilled, though, so he would probably be higher up. He also has his teammate Nestrasil, the 6'5 Czech, who could go in later rounds.
There are still a couple CHL guys I'd be happy if the Kings took, too, depending on who's likely to be available: Reschny, Cootes, Nesbitt.
All in all, there are a lot of players to like with a late 1st. I should probably make my own list to reference later.
ALSO: Future Considerations released their draft guide yesterday. I think they're the first major publication to do it: FCHockey releases 2025 NHL Draft Guide
It's $25 USD unless you have some higher tier subscription. Elite Prospects releases theirs later this week. Hockey Prospect's Black Book will be in less than 2 weeks.
FC is a good guide for some articles and a column's worth of analysis for a fairly large pool of players. Not my favorite, as EP and HP provide more data points and comparable ratings, but they still have interesting insights and generally reasonable rankings.
Herby
Now I can die in peace
This might be cheating on your question since he left the program early to play college, but Cullen Potter would be an awesome pick for the Kings if he were there. You know I value skating and shooting the puck, and he can really fly and has a great release. His production at ASU for younger player in a tough conference and not a ton of high-end guys around him was pretty good. Plus @KINGS17 would have a Kings prospect to cheer for on the Sun Devils.
Murtagh was easily the best player in the game against Michigan, and probably the game against MSU as well. I've discussed before that sometimes that doesn't always mean a ton, but it at least gives you a peek into how the players may do at the next level. So if we were going with an NTDP guy that would be my pick.
My concern with McKinney is that he's another one of these guys who has a great motor and is relentless, but how much is the offense going to translate? The Kings have just not had good luck with similar players like JAD and Turcotte. I know from talking to some people more connected with our program, the expectation is that he isn't going to be some huge offensive star in college, in particular his shot/goal-scoring is a big concern (another area where JAD and Turcotte really were exposed).
With Rob Blake out of the picture as GM, I am more open to selecting college players, which will be nice.
Murtagh was easily the best player in the game against Michigan, and probably the game against MSU as well. I've discussed before that sometimes that doesn't always mean a ton, but it at least gives you a peek into how the players may do at the next level. So if we were going with an NTDP guy that would be my pick.
My concern with McKinney is that he's another one of these guys who has a great motor and is relentless, but how much is the offense going to translate? The Kings have just not had good luck with similar players like JAD and Turcotte. I know from talking to some people more connected with our program, the expectation is that he isn't going to be some huge offensive star in college, in particular his shot/goal-scoring is a big concern (another area where JAD and Turcotte really were exposed).
With Rob Blake out of the picture as GM, I am more open to selecting college players, which will be nice.
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Not cheating at all. I know you live in the area and you've seen them live. So I figure if there are any players you feel comfortable commenting on, it's fair game.
I get the appeal for Potter. He has a good blend of skating and shooting. Kings don't normally draft out of NCAA, so I'm just not as confident they'll take him.
It's interesting and amusing though because I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum regarding skating and shooting. I think they're more of a bonus than a requirement. I put more emphasis on pace and intelligence. These are skills and attitudes you can't teach.
It's why I'm high on McKinney. His shooting sucks, but he can create plays with his physicality, and he puts in good defensive efforts.
It's an interesting dichotomy of approaches nonetheless.
Herby
Now I can die in peace
NCAA/NCAA bound picks from 2017-2024
Mikey Anderson (4th)
Cole Hults (5th)
David Hrenak (5th)
Alex Turcotte (1st)
Braden Doyle (6th)
Andre Lee (7th)
Alex Laferriere (3rd)
Brock Faber (2nd)
Ben Meehan (6th)
Jack Hughes (2nd)
Jared Wright (6th)
Jack Sparkes (6th)
Hampton Slukynsky (4th)
Ryan Conmy (6th)
James Reeder (7th)
Certainly this list is all over the place, you could argue it features the three best value picks of the Blake-era in Faber, Anderson and Laferriere, (with Slukynsky shaping up to maybe be a 4th), and also the two worst value picks in Turcotte and Hughes. But yeah, the Kings don't seem to like going down that path in the 1st round and not as much in the 2nd either.
I don't know if the Kings have the same scouts for the upper midwest for the entire time, I know they hired the guy from Wisconsin who was working in the USHL, but they have been pretty good with Minnesota born players.
The NCAA is great place to develop prospects if you let the kids develop for 2-3 seasons, they are also usually much more NHL ready after being in a college system for a few years vs. a CHL system.
I think the optimal strategy is to swing for the fences, especially in the 1st round. You can always find secondary and depth pieces on the trade and UFA market, but it's just much harder to find top line guys this way. But I think a lot of people involved in scouting are old-school guys from the days when teams had players under team control for a lot longer, and it was more important to get a sure-thing NHL'er than risk drafting a high risk/high reward bust.
Game-sense does mean a lot, and I don't totally minimize it. I would say three of my favorite prospects from the NCAA the last decade had great game sense (Hughes, Caufield, Faber) while another one of my favorites doesn't have great game sense but has off-the-chart skill (Fantilli).
I just hate hearing the term "developing offensive game", "untapped offensive potential" and "well-rounded" which usually means struggles offensively for forwards a team is going to take in the 1st round.
It's like going to a really nice restaurant and settling on a burger.
Mikey Anderson (4th)
Cole Hults (5th)
David Hrenak (5th)
Alex Turcotte (1st)
Braden Doyle (6th)
Andre Lee (7th)
Alex Laferriere (3rd)
Brock Faber (2nd)
Ben Meehan (6th)
Jack Hughes (2nd)
Jared Wright (6th)
Jack Sparkes (6th)
Hampton Slukynsky (4th)
Ryan Conmy (6th)
James Reeder (7th)
Certainly this list is all over the place, you could argue it features the three best value picks of the Blake-era in Faber, Anderson and Laferriere, (with Slukynsky shaping up to maybe be a 4th), and also the two worst value picks in Turcotte and Hughes. But yeah, the Kings don't seem to like going down that path in the 1st round and not as much in the 2nd either.
I don't know if the Kings have the same scouts for the upper midwest for the entire time, I know they hired the guy from Wisconsin who was working in the USHL, but they have been pretty good with Minnesota born players.
The NCAA is great place to develop prospects if you let the kids develop for 2-3 seasons, they are also usually much more NHL ready after being in a college system for a few years vs. a CHL system.
I think the optimal strategy is to swing for the fences, especially in the 1st round. You can always find secondary and depth pieces on the trade and UFA market, but it's just much harder to find top line guys this way. But I think a lot of people involved in scouting are old-school guys from the days when teams had players under team control for a lot longer, and it was more important to get a sure-thing NHL'er than risk drafting a high risk/high reward bust.
Game-sense does mean a lot, and I don't totally minimize it. I would say three of my favorite prospects from the NCAA the last decade had great game sense (Hughes, Caufield, Faber) while another one of my favorites doesn't have great game sense but has off-the-chart skill (Fantilli).
I just hate hearing the term "developing offensive game", "untapped offensive potential" and "well-rounded" which usually means struggles offensively for forwards a team is going to take in the 1st round.
It's like going to a really nice restaurant and settling on a burger.
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DoktorJeep
One down, two to go.
The first, Mikey and Moore should return a premium asset. That’s $9M in cap space to bolster the roster. Plus you get rid of guys who aren’t part of the solution that suck up minutes while being part of the embarrassment.
Herby
Now I can die in peace
Pretty wild reading the "CHL Can Now Play NCAA - Changes Everything" thread on the prospects board, and how since the thread started the attitude has changed drastically, especially from our friends up north. I am happy because the talent level of the NCAA is going to go through the roof, but part of me feels really bad, because in a lot of places the CHL teams are really such a big part of the community and culture, especially in smaller towns, and the leagues are just going to be a lot less talented, basically overnight.
And most of the massive names aren't going to drop until after the draft.
For the Kings specifically, if there is the exodus that most people believe is now inevitable, you have to really strongly consider keeping Greentree up, even if he might not be totally ready and it's basically the equivalent of a red-shirt season at the NHL level, where he maybe plays 40 NHL games on the 4th line and whatever is allowed in the CBA for conditioning assignments. This is not a criticism of Rob Blake, because, how could he have known (no kidding) when he signed Greentree to an NHL contract that the CHL talent level was going to fall-off this much.
Don't really know what you can do with George, it's not ideal for his development either, although maybe not as much for a goaltender.
And most of the massive names aren't going to drop until after the draft.
For the Kings specifically, if there is the exodus that most people believe is now inevitable, you have to really strongly consider keeping Greentree up, even if he might not be totally ready and it's basically the equivalent of a red-shirt season at the NHL level, where he maybe plays 40 NHL games on the 4th line and whatever is allowed in the CBA for conditioning assignments. This is not a criticism of Rob Blake, because, how could he have known (no kidding) when he signed Greentree to an NHL contract that the CHL talent level was going to fall-off this much.
Don't really know what you can do with George, it's not ideal for his development either, although maybe not as much for a goaltender.
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- Jul 1, 2003
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FWIW I kept a spreadsheet of picks Blake made, specific to nationality, league, position, handedness, size, etc (I also have Lombardi's spreadsheet somewhere). There were a few things that stood out to me:
19 of his 52 picks were from the OHL, the most plentiful league. Second most plentiful was Europe with 13. USHL (whith includes the USNTDP) was third with 11. Of his 52 picks, only 2 were out of the NCAA directly (Hughes and Hrenak). In fact, he made more picks which were from leagues at a lower level than major junior: Hampton Slukynsky (US High School), Braden Doyle (US High School), and Jack Sparkes (OJHL).
What I find also interesting is the few number of picks made out of the WHL and QMJHL; only 2 picks for each. JAD and Ziemmer are the only two players they drafted out of the WHL (both forwards). Incidentally, in the QMJHL, he's only taken two defensemen: Spence and Booth.
The nationality spread also sticks out quite a bit (I put Jordan Spence in "other" as he has Japanese heritage and was born in Australia). I was shocked to see they've actually drafted more Finns than Swedes.
Of course, this isn't a predictor. But it does show some trends of where they might have some more resources or confidence in leagues.
Regarding draft approach, I can understand swinging for the fences. I would usually aim for higher skill if the pick is higher. As the likelihood of becoming an NHLer goes down with higher picks, I especially prefer the ability to play "an NHL style game" with structure, pressure, and pace. But I get why you want to swing for the fences. We've both just seen so many players with pure skill flame out, and it sucks to lose them for nothing.
IF trends hold true, though, then the players we can expect are from the OHL, USNTDP/USHL or Swedish/Finnish. They draft more forwards in the first round than defensemen. And more often than not, they are average height (6-foot-0 or 6-foot-1).
Players slated to be available in the draft around where the Kings pick that fit that profile:
Milton Gastrin
Cole McKinney
Jack Murtagh
If you want to factor in that Byfield, Vilardi, and Greentree are all taller than 6-foot-2 as far as first round picks who are forwards, you could add Jack Nesbitt.
It's also unusual that, even though some of their best picks have been right-handed defensemen, it's the least common type of player they pick aside from goalies who catch right-handed. So, left-handed defensemen who could also be available would be Cameron Reid and Sascha Boumedienne.
Again, this is all assuming trends hold true. I genuinely believe a lot more goes into the scouting, but it will be interesting to see how much the pick fits into the mold, if at all.
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Schaefer, Frondell, Hagens set for NHL Scouting Combine spotlight | NHL.com
Erie defenseman, Djurgarden center, Boston College center among 90 prospects showcasing for 2025 Draft
www.nhl.com
Combine starts today.
It also reminds me why I like Yannetti and why, in his interviews, I think he's being sincere and not just some company yes man.
He has been on record for criticizing the combine, particularly the interview process. He points out how all the kids get coached to give canned answers, which inhibits trying to get to know their personality.
Some teams combat this by throwing random questions out there (like "what would you do if you found money in a toilet?") Yannetti doesn't like this either, as he doesn't like playing mind games with them.
It's not that he says "LA does it best." He doesn't even divulge what LA does. He just said for him, he just likes to have informal discussions to get to know the players, and I appreciate that.
Even though I feel like I'd want to throw a random question out there to see how they think and respond. Lt Dan should be the interviewer for Team HF.
Herby
Now I can die in peace
Schaefer, Frondell, Hagens set for NHL Scouting Combine spotlight | NHL.com
Erie defenseman, Djurgarden center, Boston College center among 90 prospects showcasing for 2025 Draft
Combine starts today.
It also reminds me why I like Yannetti and why, in his interviews, I think he's being sincere and not just some company yes man.
He has been on record for criticizing the combine, particularly the interview process. He points out how all the kids get coached to give canned answers, which inhibits trying to get to know their personality.
Some teams combat this by throwing random questions out there (like "what would you do if you found money in a toilet?") Yannetti doesn't like this either, as he doesn't like playing mind games with them.
It's not that he says "LA does it best." He doesn't even divulge what LA does. He just said for him, he just likes to have informal discussions to get to know the players, and I appreciate that.
Even though I feel like I'd want to throw a random question out there to see how they think and respond. Lt Dan should be the interviewer for Team HF.
I'm with Yannetti on this.
I guess they will say they use the combine interviews to "confirm our analysis" , but it seems like another event that is paid to much attention (like the NFL one)
If you are scouting a kid, see him play say 10 times in the OHL or USHL etc, really like him as a player, and interviewing him causes you to change your pick, you probably shouldn't be scouting players 8-10 times a season.
Using three recent Kings picks from the "very fruitful" 2019 as examples, people may say in support of this, "Well Kaliyev's interview probably sucked, that could have been a red flag." And if I had to guess his interviews probably did suck. But I am also going to assume (and maybe I'm wrong) that Turcotte and Bjornfot probably interviewed very well, but it didn't save them from ending up being poor picks too. So how much does the interview matter?
Kaliyev disappointed because he didn't skate well enough or have the game-sense in the offensive zone to use his shot. Bjornfot he just peaked at 18, and Turcotte's offensive game never translated.
All The Kings Men
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Just reminded myself why I try to avoid getting attached to draft possibilities.
Looking at one ranking of prospects and I see a player that looks interesting, read up on him... start getting excited.
Look at another list... he's ranked in the top 10 while the other list had him between 20 and 30.
So... if the one list is right there's no way he's available late in round 1.
If it's wrong.... well how did they get it SO wrong? Is there something wrong with him?
Ah well.
Looking at one ranking of prospects and I see a player that looks interesting, read up on him... start getting excited.
Look at another list... he's ranked in the top 10 while the other list had him between 20 and 30.
So... if the one list is right there's no way he's available late in round 1.
If it's wrong.... well how did they get it SO wrong? Is there something wrong with him?
Ah well.
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It's part of why I'm fascinated with the whole process.
Like Rasmus Kupari - one scouting service mentioned he was the "most naturally skilled" player in the draft. How did other teams see him? What criteria did they use? How much does it matter? What games did they watch, since it's logistically impossible to watch every player in every game?
What about extra curriculars? Like William Moore is an accomplished pianist and violin player. He performed at a concert at age 9. Does that matter? If so, how much? What does that tell a team? And how will it be applied in their NHL journey (if at all)?
And exactly how wrong are any of the teams, as you mentioned? Nevermind the responsibility of a team developing a player. What about the minutiae of life experiences that happen between now and the future? These kids meet new friends, girlfriends, rivalries. They experience tragedy at different times in their lives. They experience new foods, ideas, and workout routines.
Who knows if these collections of experiences in one paradigm affects them differently in another?
Like you, for example. I remember you telling the story of someone telling you to make your own podcast. That's how you started with All the Kings Men. And it contributed/led to what you're doing now. What if nobody said anything to you that one time? Or what if they said it to you at a different time?
The Draft is a fascinating fork in the road for players. It's a combination of what is, what could be, and what will be. I try not to get too invested in a particular player pre-draft either, but for a different reason. I like to learn about their stories, and given my emotional investment in the Kings, my emotional bandwidth is dedicated to them (as well as any other story that stands out).
What about Jack Nesbitt from the Windsor Spitfires?? (Apologies if he's already been discussed and I missed it while playing catch up)
Big, 6'4 center and teammate/linemate of Liam Greentree. Watching some highlights now and he seems like a very solid player. Only 183 lbs so lots of room to grow into his frame.
Kings need some big centers in their pipeline - I know you're not supposed to draft for need but Nesbitt looks like a project that could be worth taking a chance on. With his size and skill, he could be a great middle 6 center if he hits.
Big, 6'4 center and teammate/linemate of Liam Greentree. Watching some highlights now and he seems like a very solid player. Only 183 lbs so lots of room to grow into his frame.
Kings need some big centers in their pipeline - I know you're not supposed to draft for need but Nesbitt looks like a project that could be worth taking a chance on. With his size and skill, he could be a great middle 6 center if he hits.
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He's certainly in the conversation. Middle-six defensive forward appears to be his projection.
This was my article on him, fwiw: 2025 NHL Draft Preview: Forward Jack Nesbitt, Canada
The biggest question is he put up less than a point-per-game despite being on the third-best offensive team out of all the major junior leagues. He didn't play exclusively with Greentree and Protas, but there was plenty of offensive support.
Herby
Now I can die in peace
6'4 with questionable offensive upside?
I know somebody who will be very happy!
I know somebody who will be very happy!
DoktorJeep
One down, two to go.
FrozenKing18
Goongala! Goongala!
mysterman2
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