2025 NHL Draft: Lose a ton for Porter Martone

  • We sincerely apologize for the extended downtime. Our hosting provider, XenForo Cloud, encountered a major issue with their backup system, which unfortunately resulted in the loss of some critical data from the past year.

    What This Means for You:

    • If you created an account after March 2024, it no longer exists. You will need to sign up again to access the forum.
    • If you registered before March 2024 but changed your email, username, or password in the past year, those changes were lost. You’ll need to update your account details manually once you're logged in.
    • Threads and posts created within the last year have been restored.

    Our team is working with Xenforo Cloud to recover data using backups, sitemaps, and other available resources. We know this is frustrating, and we deeply regret the impact on our community. We are taking steps with Xenforo Cloud to ensure this never happens again. This is work in progress. Thank you for your patience and support as we work through this.

    In the meantime, feel free to join our Discord Server

If we pick at #2 and Schaefer is off the board, what do you do…

  • Misa

    Votes: 95 92.2%
  • Hagens

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Martone

    Votes: 2 1.9%
  • Frondell

    Votes: 2 1.9%
  • Desnoyer

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • Try to trade down to select a D in the 7-10 range

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 2 1.9%

  • Total voters
    103
4 points up with 12 games to go for the sharks and 11 to go for the hawks.

Sharks remaining games

Leafs, rangers, kings, ducks, oilers, kraken, flames, wild, oilers, flames, canucks, oilers. (2 back to backs), 10 games vs teams in or fighting for a playoff spot.

Hawks remaining games

Knights, utah, avalanche, capitals, penguins, penguins, bruins, jets, canadiens, senators. (1 back to back), 6 games vs teams in or fighting for a playoff spot.

As of today the hawks are leading in wins, regulation wins, regulation and ot wins, and sharks won the season series 2-1-0.
 
So if we end up 3OA:

Who's everyone's pick out of Hagens, Martone, Frondell, etc.
I don't know enough to have a really strong opinion to be honest. But my guess is this is GMMG & team's current list: Martone, Frondell, Hagens, Smith, Desnoyers. But you could scramble it any way and tell me that's the real list, and I'd believe you.
 
So if we end up 3OA:

Who's everyone's pick out of Hagens, Martone, Frondell, etc.
I've mentioned six or seven guys I think are legitimate possibilities for #3, but I think it will come down to the three you mentioned and Desnoyers, depending on a few factors.

1. Does the size mandate extend to a 3rd overall pick? If so, rule out Hagens.
2. Does Grier see Smith as a legitimate long-term 2C? If not, then there is a greater premium on Hagens and Desnoyers. I am not convinced that Frondell is a center long-term.
3. Even if Grier does see Smith as a long-term solution at 2C, does building an elite center spine still take precedent over anything else? A center spine of Celebrini-Smith-Desnoyers-Ostapchuk would be ridiculous.
4. Is Grier interested in upside over all-else? Does he see Martone as a future Tkachuk/Perry type? He isn't that physical right now but he's also 18 and filling out and definitely has some agitator qualities. If that's a player archetype he values highly and he's shooting for pure offensive upside, then Martone has to be the guy.
5. Is he satisfied with Celebrini/Smith/Eklund as the play-drivers of this core? Does he value a guy who can crash and bang a bit and finish in dirty areas? Frondell would then become palatable.

So I would say this: if we don't believe in Smith as a long-term center, then Martone becomes less valuable. If aren't satisfied with the play-drivers we already have, then Desnoyers and Frondell are less interesting. If size in the top-6 is a concern, then Hagens probably isn't the best bet.

I would put money on Martone if I had a gun to my head to make the selection. But Frondell fits a Grier archetype and is probably the only one of those guys who will get a last shot to improve his stock at the U18, an event that Grier has historically placed great value on with his high picks (Bystedt, Havelid, Halttunen, Smith). Desnoyers' playoff performance may be a factor, especially if he makes it to the Mem Cup. Hagens is basically a fixed asset IMO, where what you see is what you get, but if you don't like the risk profile of the other guys, then he should be the pick.

My prediction of Grier's final list:
3. Frondell
4. Martone
5. Desnoyers
6. Hagens

I don't feel like McQueen, Eklund, and J. Smith will be seriously considered, rightly or wrongly. I don't think Grier has ever really surprised me with a pick, in that everyone he's gone for in the early rounds is someone who makes a lot of sense to be taken where they're taken.
 
I think a lot of the math that goes into a potential 3rd overall selection is if the non-Schaefer/Misa prospects have any elite skills relative to the NHL. If they do, that likely takes priority over the size mandate but if not then size likely is prioritized. I think Martone is probably Grier's choice at 3OA but I still think Hagens is going to end up better.
 
I've mentioned six or seven guys I think are legitimate possibilities for #3, but I think it will come down to the three you mentioned and Desnoyers, depending on a few factors.

1. Does the size mandate extend to a 3rd overall pick? If so, rule out Hagens.
2. Does Grier see Smith as a legitimate long-term 2C? If not, then there is a greater premium on Hagens and Desnoyers. I am not convinced that Frondell is a center long-term.
3. Even if Grier does see Smith as a long-term solution at 2C, does building an elite center spine still take precedent over anything else? A center spine of Celebrini-Smith-Desnoyers-Ostapchuk would be ridiculous.
4. Is Grier interested in upside over all-else? Does he see Martone as a future Tkachuk/Perry type? He isn't that physical right now but he's also 18 and filling out and definitely has some agitator qualities. If that's a player archetype he values highly and he's shooting for pure offensive upside, then Martone has to be the guy.
5. Is he satisfied with Celebrini/Smith/Eklund as the play-drivers of this core? Does he value a guy who can crash and bang a bit and finish in dirty areas? Frondell would then become palatable.

So I would say this: if we don't believe in Smith as a long-term center, then Martone becomes less valuable. If aren't satisfied with the play-drivers we already have, then Desnoyers and Frondell are less interesting. If size in the top-6 is a concern, then Hagens probably isn't the best bet.

I would put money on Martone if I had a gun to my head to make the selection. But Frondell fits a Grier archetype and is probably the only one of those guys who will get a last shot to improve his stock at the U18, an event that Grier has historically placed great value on with his high picks (Bystedt, Havelid, Halttunen, Smith). Desnoyers' playoff performance may be a factor, especially if he makes it to the Mem Cup. Hagens is basically a fixed asset IMO, where what you see is what you get, but if you don't like the risk profile of the other guys, then he should be the pick.

My prediction of Grier's final list:
3. Frondell
4. Martone
5. Desnoyers
6. Hagens

I don't feel like McQueen, Eklund, and J. Smith will be seriously considered, rightly or wrongly. I don't think Grier has ever really surprised me with a pick, in that everyone he's gone for in the early rounds is someone who makes a lot of sense to be taken where they're taken.
Great analysis, and it's why my list was what it was and why I said "you could scramble it and I'd believe you" because you scrambled it and I believe you!

I agree McQueen, Eklund are likely out, and J. Smith is probably too far. My gut would say Martone based on the "Grier does the thing that makes sense" logic. Desnoyers, I just don't buy that this scouting staff would go with a Q guy this high, but if they believe in him (I don't) and in 2C Smith (I'm not sure yet), it would be an incredible option at 3C.

Still holding out hope that Hagens is held in high regard by enough teams that if we do pick 3, we still get Schaefer...
 
Reminder that internet scouting experts like Scott Wheeler had him in the same tier as Celebrini before the season started.
Do you prefer that no one writes any articles giving any opinions about these things? Because it's not like the teams themselves are going to tell us anything! (And it's not like they don't f*** up in their evaluations, anyway, and not just a year before the draft but at the draft...and beyond.)

My only issue would be if someone like Wheeler ignores everything he sees playing out over that time and stubbornly refuses to adjust. I don't think that's his style. And he obviously puts in the work scouting guys. It's like anything in life: you don't have to agree with his opinion, but if it's well-researched and thoughtful, why not take it as one piece of a big information puzzle?
 
Great analysis, and it's why my list was what it was and why I said "you could scramble it and I'd believe you" because you scrambled it and I believe you!

I agree McQueen, Eklund are likely out, and J. Smith is probably too far. My gut would say Martone based on the "Grier does the thing that makes sense" logic. Desnoyers, I just don't buy that this scouting staff would go with a Q guy this high, but if they believe in him (I don't) and in 2C Smith (I'm not sure yet), it would be an incredible option at 3C.

Still holding out hope that Hagens is held in high regard by enough teams that if we do pick 3, we still get Schaefer...
I hesitated to include Desnoyers for that reason, but there were a lot of other factors that ultimately made me add him. He's got the Bergeron/Couturier/O'Reilly "guy you win with" tag from a lot of internet scouts (not sure I believe it, but it's absolutely out there), and he's 6'2" and probably a center (whereas Frondell is a wing and Hagens, while a center almost definitely, is small). I personally am not super high on Desnoyers either, but he's second in the Q in PPG and the only guy above him is a 21 year old winger. Desnoyers leads his own team by a significant margin too.

Like I've said before, I think he tops out as a solid 2C with great defensive value, which isn't exactly what I'd want at 3rd overall. But I do feel like he's a bit of Mikey Hockey guy, more so than Hagens, so I think we have to consider him.
 
Do you prefer that no one writes any articles giving any opinions about these things? Because it's not like the teams themselves are going to tell us anything! (And it's not like they don't f*** up in their evaluations, anyway, and not just a year before the draft but at the draft...and beyond.)

My only issue would be if someone like Wheeler ignores everything he sees playing out over that time and stubbornly refuses to adjust. I don't think that's his style. And he obviously puts in the work scouting guys. It's like anything in life: you don't have to agree with his opinion, but if it's well-researched and thoughtful, why not take it as one piece of a big information puzzle?
Yes, absolutely. Whether they're conscious of it or not, people who write about prospects publicly for websites that are dependent on subscription and ad revenue are greatly incentivized to overrate those prospects. Their readership is made up of fans of shitty teams who desperately want to be told that their mediocre prospect pool and next year's 1st rounder will turn the ship around. Fans despise the rare prospect writer like Corey Pronman who actually tries to do his job and provide slightly more realistic projections.
 
I think a lot of the math that goes into a potential 3rd overall selection is if the non-Schaefer/Misa prospects have any elite skills relative to the NHL. If they do, that likely takes priority over the size mandate but if not then size likely is prioritized. I think Martone is probably Grier's choice at 3OA but I still think Hagens is going to end up better.

I feel extremely similarly. Martone does bring something that we don't really have in terms of his ability to generate points consistently around the net. You're also sort of hoping that he embraces that frame and can use that to turn into the archetype of player that can dominate a playoff series (on the cycle, on special teams). One thing I do like about PM is how he does use his body in the o-zone to slow the game down. He's hard to knock off of the puck and knows that, so he uses it to let plays develop just that extra second longer.

In terms of his raw attributes Martone's hands and playmaking are off the charts, I think he can improve his skating and become a more consistent presence shift by shift.

... but I think I still do prefer Hagens in a vacuum even if it is close.

Going to be extremely interesting to follow, but I'd rather just secure a top two pick and get Misa or Schaefer lol.
 
If schaefer and misa are off the board, Grier will go for martone. Size size size, and besides hes pretty skilled and tough too. I mean, its kinda obvious to me. Grier acquires ostapchuk for size and to eventually be the 3c behing celly and smith. Grier said exactly that. He drafted cherny, musty, haltunnen for size on the wing. He likes lund for size. He obviously wants more and more size, and who can blame him? Size matters. It'll be martone...

He wants the sharks to play heavy and take over by setting the martone of the game.
 
If schaefer and misa are off the board, Grier will go for martone. Size size size, and besides hes pretty skilled and tough too. I mean, its kinda obvious to me. Grier acquires ostapchuk for size and to eventually be the 3c behing celly and smith. Grier said exactly that. He drafted cherny, musty, haltunnen for size on the wing. He likes lund for size. He obviously wants more and more size, and who can blame him? Size matters. It'll be martone...

He wants the sharks to play heavy and take over by setting the martone of the game.

That’s my feeling too, though I can see him taking Frondell too. He’s not huge but he’s big enough and he’s a center, which gives us options with Smith going to wing or Frondell taking center. I think Jux mentioned this too but Grier obviously likes building from the middle out so I can see a Frondell being exciting to him.

But I lean toward Martone too.
 
That’s my feeling too, though I can see him taking Frondell too. He’s not huge but he’s big enough and he’s a center, which gives us options with Smith going to wing or Frondell taking center. I think Jux mentioned this too but Grier obviously likes building from the middle out so I can see a Frondell being exciting to him.

But I lean toward Martone too.
I feel like we've missed a real opportunity not giving Smith a second try at center. How do you know whether you need to draft a center or a wing if you haven't decided what Smith's ultimate position will be?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Patty Ice
I feel like we've missed a real opportunity not giving Smith a second try at center. How do you know whether you need to draft a center or a wing if you haven't decided what Smith's ultimate position will be?
I don’t think so just because we need centers regardless of Smith’s status. They should be treating the draft like they need everything still.
 

Ad

Ad