2025 NHL Draft: Lose a ton for Porter Martone

If we pick at #2 and Schaefer is off the board, what do you do…

  • Misa

    Votes: 87 95.6%
  • Hagens

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Martone

    Votes: 2 2.2%
  • Frondell

    Votes: 2 2.2%
  • Desnoyer

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Try to trade down to select a D in the 7-10 range

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    91
We won’t like it, but that’s Griers plan going forward. Everyone under 6 foot is gonna get shipped out for grinders like Ostapchuks. We’re not gonna win with a team full of Smurfs.
Isn’t Celebrini under 6 foot? Smith too? The amount of chicken littles in here is crazy.

If sharks miss out on Schaefer they happily take Misa if he’s there. For all the talk about how great our forward pool is, it’s still very unproven. Yes we likely have 3/6 of a good top 6 already in the NHL but it’s still very possible guys like Chernyshov, Musty, etc bust. If everyone hits, you can flip some of those forwards for D help.
 
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Just wanted to point out that Grier drafted Cagnoni, the smurfiest smurf to ever smurf.

This means there’s a hidden option where Grier pivots, shipping out all of his tall players for anyone shorter than 5’10”
I think it's dreadfully obvious that Grier has little interest in forwards under 6'2" unless they have elite skill and punch above their weight, so to speak. Eklund, Celebrini, and Smith are the only long-term forwards that are average or below in height. Ostapchuk, Chernyshov, Musty, Halttunen, Graf (6'1"), Bystedt, Svoboda, Wetsch (very physical 6'1"), and Lund have a future as Sharks if they earn it. Zetterlund, Bordeleau, Gushchin, Robins, etc. did not.

He certainly values size on D as well (particularly evidenced by the selection of Dickinson over Buium), but I really think size up front is Grier's calling card so far. And I kinda don't hate it, to be honest, so long as he is willing to extend some latitude when an average or smaller guy has high-end skill plus the jam of a larger dude (like, Carter Bear or Victor Eklund for instance). He's really trying to build a 2023 Knights/2024 Panthers style long-term contender, and I kinda feel like that's a smart way to play it.
 
I think it's dreadfully obvious that Grier has little interest in forwards under 6'2" unless they have elite skill and punch above their weight, so to speak. Eklund, Celebrini, and Smith are the only long-term forwards that are average or below in height. Ostapchuk, Chernyshov, Musty, Halttunen, Graf (6'1"), Bystedt, Svoboda, Wetsch (very physical 6'1"), and Lund have a future as Sharks if they earn it. Zetterlund, Bordeleau, Gushchin, Robins, etc. did not.

He certainly values size on D as well (particularly evidenced by the selection of Dickinson over Buium), but I really think size up front is Grier's calling card so far. And I kinda don't hate it, to be honest, so long as he is willing to extend some latitude when an average or smaller guy has high-end skill plus the jam of a larger dude (like, Carter Bear or Victor Eklund for instance). He's really trying to build a 2023 Knights/2024 Panthers style long-term contender, and I kinda feel like that's a smart way to play it.
I agree. I like the push for size, especially up front. Size matters :-)

It's clear that Grier is OK with a smaller player if the skill is there. But, he said clearly that a team full of celebrini's and smiths is not gunna win a cup (I found that to be the most fascinating quote of his interview). In other words, I think he is looking for skill AND size. He is OK having some smaller players with skill as long as he has lots of size to go with it. That said, I think he wants both if possible, and will take a bit less skill for more size (like Martone>Hagens).

Whats clear is that we we need a whole lot more size in the top 6. Graf is kinda smaller too, so Celly, Smith, Ek, and Graf is not good enough. We need Cherny, Musty, Haltunnen, and/or Lund to work out. We need Ostapchuk and Bystedt to work out. We need more size up front. Grier is spot on there.

Take a look at the top dynamic duos of the last 20 years. Mcdavid Draisaitl (neither small, but draisaitl is big). Crosby malkin (crosby is smaller, but malkin is big). Kane (small)- Toews (biggish). Jumbo-Patty (big)...
 
Isn’t Celebrini under 6 foot? Smith too? The amount of chicken littles in here is crazy.

If sharks miss out on Schaefer they happily take Misa if he’s there. For all the talk about how great our forward pool is, it’s still very unproven. Yes we likely have 3/6 of a good top 6 already in the NHL but it’s still very possible guys like Chernyshov, Musty, etc bust. If everyone hits, you can flip some of those forwards for D help.
No, They are both 6 feet, but we still need to add some size. Cherny, Musty etc are all not gonna be part of the sharks core here or in the top 6. i figure minimum one if not 2 will come via free agency or more likely trade in the next 20 months. When this team is ready to compete, or a player needing a change of scenery comes available. Grier has been stacking the assets so if when an impact player becomes available, he should be able to compete with the best offers.
 
No, They are both 6 feet, but we still need to add some size. Cherny, Musty etc are all not gonna be part of the sharks core here or in the top 6. i figure minimum one if not 2 will come via free agency or more likely trade in the next 20 months. When this team is ready to compete, or a player needing a change of scenery comes available. Grier has been stacking the assets so if when an impact player becomes available, he should be able to compete with the best offers.
Cherny is going to make it here.
 
So why isn't he going to be part of the core?
I never said he wasnt, I was using an example as the previous poster mentioned cherny, musty etc. My point was not all these pieces are going to hit or be part of our core. some will move via trade if an opportunity rises, some will be on the team. Some will bust. No team is 90% plus homegrown.
 
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I agree to an extent but I hope he doesn't get carried away and turn into hodge. Big = good, small = bad.
He's probably thinking my 3 key forwards are not heavy players. Eklund, Mack, Smith, and maybe Eklund is expendable in the right circumstance but if MG is building around those 3 in the top 6 he wants more size to compliment em. Smith might be the softest boi ever too, he's not about that life haha
 
I agree to an extent but I hope he doesn't get carried away and turn into hodge. Big = good, small = bad.
Like I said, he clearly makes exceptions for high-end talent. Celebrini, Eklund, and Smith are high-end talent, and he wants to surround them with size.

This year's Caps are another example of the type of roster I think Grier is after. Heavy and skilled, but maybe not prioritizing speed up front. It's an effective team build right now. Zetterlund may have been somewhat gritty, but he doesn't have the high-end skill to justify being on Grier's long-term roster at 5'10". I truly believe that's what Grier meant when he said the Zetterlund trade was about "long-term roster construction".

If the fixation with size costs him talent, then sure, it may become a problem. So far it hasn't.
 
Like I said, he clearly makes exceptions for high-end talent. Celebrini, Eklund, and Smith are high-end talent, and he wants to surround them with size.

This year's Caps are another example of the type of roster I think Grier is after. Heavy and skilled, but maybe not prioritizing speed up front. It's an effective team build right now. Zetterlund may have been somewhat gritty, but he doesn't have the high-end skill to justify being on Grier's long-term roster at 5'10". I truly believe that's what Grier meant when he said the Zetterlund trade was about "long-term roster construction".

If the fixation with size costs him talent, then sure, it may become a problem. So far it hasn't.
Yeah I don’t think Martone over Hagens is an issue either. I would be a little irritated if it was Martone over Misa though.
 
The fantasy of Misa and Cherny playing together on our second line with Smith and Celebrini on the first is arousing. Who cares about defense? Score goals and make Askarov have to make 50 saves a game.
 
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Like I said, he clearly makes exceptions for high-end talent. Celebrini, Eklund, and Smith are high-end talent, and he wants to surround them with size.

This year's Caps are another example of the type of roster I think Grier is after. Heavy and skilled, but maybe not prioritizing speed up front. It's an effective team build right now. Zetterlund may have been somewhat gritty, but he doesn't have the high-end skill to justify being on Grier's long-term roster at 5'10". I truly believe that's what Grier meant when he said the Zetterlund trade was about "long-term roster construction".

If the fixation with size costs him talent, then sure, it may become a problem. So far it hasn't.
I hope so. It's too early to pass judgement because hopefully these guys are just stop gaps or nothing but he's recently added :Giles, Ostapchuk, Desharnas, etc.
 
I hope so. It's too early to pass judgement because hopefully these guys are just stop gaps or nothing but he's recently added :Giles, Ostapchuk, Desharnas, etc.
Giles was acquired for an overpaid backup. Deshairnais for a 5th in 3 years. Ostapchuk was a little more expensive but they got a 2nd with him too and it seems like the scouting staff likes him more than we do for better or worse. Feels like an overreaction to a few nothing trades.

Look I get that the Zetterlund trade was not any of our favorite and I think a lot of us wouldn’t have made it but the amount of complete overreaction around here since that is just exhausting.
 
Giles was acquired for an overpaid backup. Deshairnais for a 5th in 3 years. Ostapchuk was a little more expensive but they got a 2nd with him too and it seems like the scouting staff likes him more than we do for better or worse. Feels like an overreaction to a few nothing trades.

Look I get that the Zetterlund trade was not any of our favorite and I think a lot of us wouldn’t have made it but the amount of complete overreaction around here since that is just exhausting.
"I hope he doesn't get carried away"

"It's too early to pass judgement"

I'm sorry for my dramatic overreaction.
 
"I hope he doesn't get carried away"

"It's too early to pass judgement"

I'm sorry for my dramatic overreaction.
The fact it’s even a conversation based on coach speak that we hear every single year is an overreaction.

Grier has added guys like Celebrini, Smith, Wennberg, Toffoli, Musty, Cagnoni yet everyone here is so worried that he will pass on legit skill for big and dumb.
 
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Giles and Desharnais are not long-term pieces and really have no bearing on this conversation.

I just don't think there's a problem with his philosophy.
I don't mind the philosophy. I'm more concerned about the return for Zetterlund being underwhelming. But I'm willing to give Ostapchuk a chance though he didn't do anything impressive yesterday and it's possible even a late 2nd can be good enough to get us an overpaid player in a spot we may need. Could be a useful piece to bring in someone like Dougie Hamilton, who knows?
 
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I don't mind the philosophy. I'm more concerned about the return for Zetterlund being underwhelming. But I'm willing to give Ostapchuk a chance though he didn't do anything impressive yesterday and it's possible even a late 2nd can be good enough to get us an overpaid player in a spot we may need. Could be a useful piece to bring in someone like Dougie Hamilton, who knows?
It's clear that Grier's pro scouts value Ostapchuk more than Zetterlund. If they are right in their evaluation, then they win the trade. If they aren't, they don't. The result of this trade is more of a reflection on the ability of the pro scouts, not on Grier'a trade valuation.
 
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It's clear that Grier's pro scouts value Ostapchuk more than Zetterlund. If they are right in their evaluation, then they win the trade. If they aren't, they don't. The result of this trade is more of a reflection on the ability of the pro scouts, not on Grier'a trade valuation.
I don't think the 2nd round pick is irrelevant in their evaluation on this front but I do believe Ostapchuk is more relevant than the pick.
 
It's clear that Grier's pro scouts value Ostapchuk more than Zetterlund. If they are right in their evaluation, then they win the trade. If they aren't, they don't. The result of this trade is more of a reflection on the ability of the pro scouts, not on Grier'a trade valuation.
And specifically, Ostapchuk in ~3-5 years (plus a 2nd now) vs. Zetterlund in 3-5 years (plus a 4th now).
 
I don't think the 2nd round pick is irrelevant in their evaluation on this front but I do believe Ostapchuk is more relevant than the pick.
It's not irrelevant but it wasn't the point of the trade and I bet Grier would have done it without the 2nd if absolutely pressed.

And specifically, Ostapchuk in ~3-5 years (plus a 2nd now) vs. Zetterlund in 3-5 years (plus a 4th now).
Right, goes without saying.
 
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