Is Jagr the greatest European player of all time?

[Jumptheshark]

Just a (small) part of Russia though.
However, you're right... Being part of the EU or being European are two different things. Switzerland (luckily) isn't part of the EU either.

Back to topic. I think Jagr is the best European player ever.

Back on topic? You do need to verify EU or European. Those are two different things. I can see the PRO Jagr not wanting Russia included

 

[Guadana]

This "small" part is the biggest part of Europe by many miles. And population is big enough.

What a day to read all of this.

 

[ijuka]

After Kravtsov yes (guess that goes without saying).

If Kravtsov is from Vladivostok then he's not exactly European.

Then again, I guess Chelyabinsk is.

 

[Jumptheshark]

This "small" part is the biggest part of Europe by many miles. And population is big enough.

What a day to read all of this.

It hurts the Jagr side to include them.

 

[895]

Anyone who debates whether or not Russia is European is not a serious person.

 

[D Wakaluk]

Anyone who debates whether or not Russia is European is not a serious person.

It's a fair discussion. Actually, they have turned many people quite serious these days

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

It's a fair discussion. Actually, they have turned many people quite serious these days

Most of Russia is in Asia. But you can argue St. Petersburg and Moscow are in Europe.

 

[CostaRica]

Most of Russia is in Asia. But you can argue St. Petersburg and Moscow are in Europe.

Why would you argue when it’s a fact??

 

[Guadana]

I don't think a hockey discussion requires the presence of comments from a person who has read information from sources that have been officially recognized as propaganda and their funding has been stopped. If we want to read the latest hate speech, we can always use the Internet archive. This is a hockey forum.

 

[lamini]

If Kravtsov is from Vladivostok then he's not exactly European.

Then again, I guess Chelyabinsk is.

Chelyabinsk is already in Asia (east of Ural)

 

[Guadana]

Chelyabinsk is already in Asia (east of Ural)

Culturally, people don't change their essence depending on their location. Asians in the European part of Russia remain Asians, depending on their ethnic and cultural background, and vice versa - Russians in Vladivostok and Kaliningrad, while the majority in New York and Buenos Aires remain themselves.

 

[D Wakaluk]

I don't think a hockey discussion requires the presence of comments from a person who has read information from sources that have been officially recognized as propaganda and their funding has been stopped. If we want to read the latest hate speech, we can always use the Internet archive. This is a hockey forum.

You are free to stop anytime you want comrade. That's also a wider recommendation

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

Larionov is the best player ever from europe.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Honest question. Did you watch Jagr and his teams in from about 1995 onwards?

Apart from Mario coming back in 2001, he was mostly carrying cast-offs, misfits and projects.

His one good side kick was Straka (both in Pittsburgh and in NY), the KLS line was a thing for a couple of years, while Jagr played with Jan Hrdina, German Titov and the corpse of Kevin Stevens, etc.

The defense during the Pens years was mostly a flashy but inconsistent Darius Kasparaitis, and such household names as Jiri Slegr, Ian Moran, Andrew Ference, etc.

The NY years were even more ridiculous, he carried a franchise that was a laughing stock back into relevance - all accompanied by, again, misfits and cast-offs, Nylander, Straka, Rozsival, Rucinsky, Malik, etc.
Lundqvist came up, some rookies like Tyutin and Girardi, etc.... But make no mistake about it, it was a hell of a carry job by Jagr.

Also, Jagr won 5 Ross trophies, not 3. Why are you just counting 3? (other than to better suit your agenda)

Jagr was so far ahead of his competition that he could miss 20 games and still win the Art Ross, ahead of players like Bure, Forsberg, Fedorov, Sakic, Lindros, etc.
(and that actually happened in 1999-2000, played 66 games and won the Art Ross).

Well said.

Jagr placed in the top five in scoring eight times in his career. Lemieux wasn't there for six of those eight years (1995, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2002, 2006 - either because Lemieux was injured/retired, or Jagr wasn't on the Penguins anymore). For the two remaining years - Lemieux only played half of the 2001 season (and Jagr still outscored him during that period) and 1996 (they played together on the powerplay, but not at even strength). Yes, Jagr had some help from Lemieux, but not nearly as much as many people seem to think.

 

[Aurinko]

Couple thousand points in NHL and playing professional hockey @53 yo.

Jagr is the goat on every metric.

 

[wetcoast]

Here is the thing. Where does Russia fall into the debate? While not part of the EU it is on the European continent

Russian players have always been considered as "European" in the NHL and by hockey fans.

 

[wgknestrick]

I like forsberg

So do I, but we are talking about better players here.

 

[Boxscore]

Larionov is the best player ever from europe.

Really? I don't even think Larionov was the best player on his line. Arguably the 4th best from the Green Unit.

The Euro GOAT comes down to:

Ovechkin
Jagr
Lidstrom
Hasek
Fetisov
Makarov
Tretiak

... for me. I don't think anyone else can be in the discussion. And I love Forsberg, Sundin, Kucherov, Kharlamov, etc.