2025-26 Ted Lindsay Award finalists: Macklin Celebrini, Nikita Kucherov, Connor McDavid | Winner: Connor McDavid

[Greatzsky 99]

Eh. Not saying fans “know better”, but it’s not like players aren’t subject to the same biases as anyone else.

i fully agree with a Canuck fan?! I think Hart is a better measure(although not great) cause they see more hockey then the players, the players on east coast has probably just seen a handful of Avs games and bought into the Celebrini hype and highlights, i m o, and my guess

 

[Account Deleted]

Everyone mad like they know better than the players is funny. “90% of people would say Mackinnon had a better season than Celebrini” acting like the players aren’t people is funny.

The Lindsay is the only worthwhile award there is in the NHL.

Probably, best player in the league is a big honor. I think the Hart has the most prestige though.

 

[Frank Drebin]

They were probably Canadians.

Kucherov is taking this and the Hart, prepare for the outcry

Chubby lil dude fell off at the end cost himself the art Russ too

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

What an unbelievable achievement and honor for Celebrini to be looked at as such a great player already by his peers. Wow

I bet he wins this award

 

[Frank Drebin]

Eh. Not saying fans “know better”, but it’s not like players aren’t subject to the same biases as anyone else.

Oh yeah hockey fans way more in tune with their bias than the guys opponents

 

[Greatzsky 99]

Avs fans seething that MacKinnon and his 50 empty net points aren’t there

Imagine if Celebrini has scored 20 more points the Mack on the presidents throphy winner team, and MacK didnt make the PO, and MacK became finalist over him, of course they are and should be a bit upset, its only logical, especially since it was an historic ESP season for MacK,

sure Celebrini is a teenager, and he had much more points then teammates(although smith missed around 15 games) but if that was the criteria, Karlsson should have won easily as a dman having 50% more when he was in SJ

 

[BeranekAndNeck]

Don’t worry, one day Nate will have the MackinnEN Best Extra Attack Award named after him.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I dont know if it is, its not an objective award, I mean, will Guentzel vote for Kuch instead of MacK if they are close, of course, dont make me think that every vote here is sincere.
Art Ross and Rocket are the only real awards i m o

So to be clear, you think that the margin here is one vote from Jake Guentzel?

I don’t see why everyone is so convinced Mackinnon is even objectively better than Celebrini anyway. When they played together at the Olympics, Celebrini was better. If you don’t think Celebrini could have scored 13 more points this season if he’d had Marty Necas and Cale Makar instead of Will Smith/Collin Graf and John Klingberg, I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[Muffin]

Oh yeah hockey fans way more in tune with their bias than the guys opponents

I mean lots of players admit they don’t watch hockey on their own time.

When your job is hockey you usually don’t like to go home and watch more hockey

 

[Frank Drebin]

I mean lots of players admit they don’t watch hockey on their own time.

When your job is hockey you usually don’t like to go home and watch more hockey

The same guys that didn’t watch MacKinnon also didn’t watch celebrini

 

[Greatzsky 99]

So to be clear, you think that the margin here is one vote from Jake Guentzel?

I don’t see why everyone is so convinced Mackinnon is even objectively better than Celebrini anyway. When they played together at the Olympics, Celebrini was better. If you don’t think Celebrini could have scored 13 more points this season if he’d had Marty Necas and Cale Makar instead of Will Smith/Collin Graf and John Klingberg, I don’t know what to tell you.

A) You missed the point

B) It doesnt work that way

 

[Cas]

Why even have a Lindsay or a Hart if there wasn't some subjective element to the voting?

If in your eyes its just the most points than Art Ross = Hart = Lindsay

Why indeed?

I certainly never said "it's just the most points," though. It's not always true that the biggest scorer is the most valuable player. But the terms are all synonymous.

 

[Toby91ca]

Uh oh, here’s come the MacKinnon outcry

I mean....there is a legitimate beef there. Celebrini is a cool story, but seems crazy to think he was a better player than MacKinnon this year.

 

[Cas]

Im sure you know better than the actual players who face him

In general, I don't think much of player evaluations of other players. Athletes have a tendency to be impressed by outstanding skills, and not necessarily outstanding value, have no training in objective evaluation of even the players of their own sport, are too deep in the weeds to see the big picture, don't actually watch the entire league, and, quite frankly, are often just meathead morons (obviously, there are exceptions).

Ice hockey players are experts at getting a piece of rubber into a net sitting on ice. They are not necessarily experts at evaluating the overall impact of their peers as a whole.

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

In general, I don't think much of player evaluations of other players. Athletes have a tendency to be impressed by outstanding skills, and not necessarily outstanding value, have no training in objective evaluation of even the players of their own sport, are too deep in the weeds to see the big picture, don't actually watch the entire league, and, quite frankly, are often just meathead morons (obviously, there are exceptions).

Ice hockey players are experts at getting a piece of rubber into a net sitting on ice. They are not necessarily experts at evaluating the overall impact of their peers as a whole.

So the thousands of hours of game tape and game time that every single player goes through is meaningless to you compared to couch surfing dads and media members that purposely leave people off ballots just because they follow rival teams etc?

 

[Saskatoon]

In general, I don't think much of player evaluations of other players. Athletes have a tendency to be impressed by outstanding skills, and not necessarily outstanding value, have no training in objective evaluation of even the players of their own sport, are too deep in the weeds to see the big picture, don't actually watch the entire league, and, quite frankly, are often just meathead morons (obviously, there are exceptions).

Ice hockey players are experts at getting a piece of rubber into a net sitting on ice. They are not necessarily experts at evaluating the overall impact of their peers as a whole.

while true this board is quick to jump to the defense of the player evaluation if they like the Lindsay winner better than the Hart winner

It's probably moot as McDavid probably claims both this year

 

[Cas]

So the thousands of hours of game tape and game time that every single player goes through is meaningless to you compared to couch surfing dads and media members that purposely leave people off ballots just because they follow rival teams etc?

It's all meaningless, and no, I don't think watching game tape focusing on a player's skills and tendencies is equivalent to an objective evaluation of that player's actual on-ice value as an overall measure.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I mean....there is a legitimate beef there. Celebrini is a cool story, but seems crazy to think he was a better player than MacKinnon this year.

Why is that crazy? Mackinnon only outscored Celebrini by 8 goals and 12 points while really, really bringing attention to his 5 on 6 game.

When you consider the strength of each respective teams, its not hard to imagine the positions being reversed, and the gap being bigger.

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

It's all meaningless, and no, I don't think watching game tape focusing on a player's skills and tendencies is equivalent to an objective evaluation of that player's actual on-ice value as an overall measure.

In your work place, do you know who the best and worst employees are, and the value your coworkers bring to it?

 

[Frank Drebin]

In general, I don't think much of player evaluations of other players. Athletes have a tendency to be impressed by outstanding skills, and not necessarily outstanding value, have no training in objective evaluation of even the players of their own sport, are too deep in the weeds to see the big picture, don't actually watch the entire league, and, quite frankly, are often just meathead morons (obviously, there are exceptions).

Ice hockey players are experts at getting a piece of rubber into a net sitting on ice. They are not necessarily experts at evaluating the overall impact of their peers as a whole.

this is one of the most ridiculous things i've ever read

 

[Juxtaposer]

A) You missed the point

No, you’re suggesting that the players voted for Celebrini instead of Mackinnon because they hate Mackinnon. That’s insane.

B) It doesnt work that way

Then explain how it works instead of saying nothing.

Everyone keeps saying Mackinnon is better than Celebrini and yet no one can actually back it up except with scoring totals. And anyone who thinks scoring totals is a strict measurement of the quality of a player doesn’t watch hockey.

 

[Video Nasty]

You can definitely argue Celebrini over MacKinnon for the Hart but I don't see the argument for the Lindsay.

His peers are clearly impressed with his game at his age. This happens all the time and with only three finalists, someone had to be left out, and it’s clearly MacKinnon.

 

[Toby91ca]

Im sure you know better than the actual players who face him

If I'm being honest, I'd probably suggest the hockey writers are better at judging who's best than the players. But just a hunch. I've played hockey at a high level and in my experience, it's way easier to see everything happening on the ice from the stands than it is sitting on the bench or on the ice playing. That's me anyway.

Also, players may only see a guy once a year, twice a year, vs. writers who watch A LOT...it's their job. A lot of players don't spend a ton of time watching outside of their job...some do.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Meh. Its fine. Celebrini deserves it and just makes his 2nd contract even bigger. Mack had no chance of winning this.

 

[GetRidOfOettinger]

No, you’re suggesting that the players voted for Celebrini instead of Mackinnon because they hate Mackinnon. That’s insane.


Then explain how it works instead of saying nothing.

Everyone keeps saying Mackinnon is better than Celebrini and yet no one can actually back it up except with scoring totals. And anyone who thinks scoring totals is a strict measurement of the quality of a player doesn’t watch hockey.

Well some have shared a locker room with the food nazi and might legitimately hate him.