OT: 2024 Washington Commanders thread: change we can believe in!

[Bananas]

I’m taking a time out on WRs due to this thread. Let’s just enjoy what we have, shall we?

 

[Jags]

Found the problem. This has now become "well-selected" third rounders instead of playing averages and paying for an in-depth look at the 2WR in your system before signing.

I said well-selected to emphasize that it's not Ron making these choices anymore. AP's first draft was pretty flawless. Not always going to hit dingers, but yeah, I'd rather get another Coleman/McCaffrey on top of a FA WR2, whomever that may be.

Paying two thirds to get a peek isn't even close to worth it for me. We know who Higgins is for the most part.

 

[g00n]

At least one person said they were initially in favor of getting him some weapons, but now that he’s playing so well, nah, we don’t need to add in this instance.

If this refers to me, I did not say that. I said they MAY not need to add another WR in the context of adding a WR1/2 "safety blanket". Later I said a good value add would be fine for depth. But the idea that WRs were needed to make JD better seemed to have been put to bed.

 

[John Price]

 

[John Price]

Receiver is literally not a need at the moment. Brown is doing well as a #2, Noah Brown is fine and Zaccharius is even filling in well.

For a unit which looked on paper to be underwhelming entering the season they have done very well.

Offense is NOT the problem and there is no need to trade for any help. The dire need is on D. This was re-emphasized in the Keim podcast where he just couldn't see the Commanders trading for Adams or any WR help. Just not needed. The offense has put up the most points in the NFL so far. Why would you want another WR?

If they weren't trading for Aiyuk when they wasily could have in the offseason they aren't trading for Adams or anyone else. This FO has shown no interest in giving up picks to get players

 

[usiel]

Receiver is literally not a need at the moment. Brown is doing well as a #2, Noah Brown is fine and Zaccharius is even filling in well.

For a unit which looked on paper to be underwhelming entering the season they have done very well.

Offense is NOT the problem and there is no need to trade for any help. The dire need is on D. This was re-emphasized in the Keim podcast where he just couldn't see the Commanders trading for Adams or any WR help. Just not needed. The offense has put up the most points in the NFL so far. Why would you want another WR?

JDs ability to stretch the play out means the opposing DBs have to cover receivers longer and as we all know generally a receiver will get open. I would think CB would be the top need. If Washington beats the Ravens man the hype is going to get ridiculous.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I'm not sure anyone said that. I think we're all for upgrading the 2WR spot at least. I think the main issue was do we want to give up real assets to do it immediately/midseason via trade, or do we wait out the year, fully diagnose our needs versus development, and add what we need like we did last offseason.



I promise you I don't. I think he's great, and I'm not opposed to spending to get him in free agency (if he makes it there) if the price is right. But third round picks are potentially very valuable, and if we draft well those two guys are cost-controlled for years. I'm not so set on our new 2WR being Higgins that I'm willing to make that kind of trade. I'd rather use those picks more wisely AND get the best 2WR we can, whether it's Higgins or not.



I don't think we'd make the trade without a strong feeling that he'd want to sign, and I agree that if things stay as promising as they are right now -- not that we'll continue at this winning pace, but what's going on IS really promising -- being here for a little while will also make it more likely that he'd want to stay.

BUT, if we trade a couple thirds for him, then we're kind of locked in. If we give up that much to rent him for a few weeks, we're idiots. So in addition to giving up the assets it might hurt our negotiating position a bit for his side to know we're on the hook almost no matter what.

Always appreciate the dialogue.

These are 3rd picks we are talking here. Preferably in the latter 3rd of the draft. I approve at the Coleman love — and McCaffrey love — and of course AP.

But come on man. Higgins is exactly what you PRAY a 3rd rounder turns in to. Hell, if a plus 20 OA turns into Higgins, ALL are happy. IF McCaffrey turns into half of Higgins, we’d be happy.

Higgins is currently 25. Will be 26 in early 2025. However he’d still be only 2yrs older than McCaffrey, and 1yr older than Dyami.

I think you are still underrating Higgins. You say “nope”, but your comments say “yup”.

You think AP can get “2 Higgins’s” with those 3rds? Really? Come on man.

Edit — he literally has better than TMcL17 stats to start their careers, and he’s YOUNGER.

Sure, Joe Burrow. I get that. But now Jayden Daniels.

I’d love Higgins. For 2 3rds. We won’t do it. But saying we shouldn’t seems like …. Someone that wants to argue.

 

[Jags]

I’d love Higgins. For 2 3rds. We won’t do it. But saying we shouldn’t seems like …. Someone that wants to argue.

The majority of the posters here are pretty much saying the same thing. Not all for sure, but most. It's not just me. So basically you're saying that anyone that doesn't agree with the minority opinion on this just wants to argue. Couple posts back citing analysts saying the same thing I am, and for the same reasons. They just want to argue?

It also kinda feels like you're just taking from these posts what you want to hear, cuz I've said several times that I'd sure like to get Higgins, just in a more reasonable way. To ignore those many mentions to make it sound like I don't like Higgins or appreciate him enough? That's something someone that wants to argue would do.

 

[ynotcaps]

OK, can't believe I'm going to do this, but have to (it's a compulsion, I know -- I'll ask about medicating at my next 30,000 mile check-up, I promise.)

I get and appreciate all the discussion and the hesitance to part with one and possibly 2 3rd rounders (remember the second hypothetical pick is hypothetically conditional, so if he breaks or whatever goes wrong, the worst-case cost is one pick. If he turns into a keeper, it's 2 thirds.)

That said, I still do it. No static to those who don't -- I respect the opinion and the thought put into the reasons why not. We can still be friends (just not best friends -- sorry, I know my best-friendship is something that carries great value, and it saddens me to deprive you of it.)

Back to the NE model (aka supporting cast of JAGs vs. supporting cast of HOFers), I just have to re-raise the point that I think is still getting ignored: It wasn't just a question of "did the QB make the guys or vice versa" -- the COACHING was a huuuuuge component of all that, offensive coaching, sure, but defensive coaching and head coaching. The greatest team era in modern NFL history doesn't happen without unparalleled coaching. I love the staff we've put together, they've been great after their first training camp and first 5 NFL games together, but we've got a long, long way to go before the whole "when does JD reach a baseline where comparison may be possible?"; we've got a couple of years before the FO and coaching staff have established an organizational baseline where a field-level comparison against dynasties (NE and to a lesser extent, current KC) is even remotely valid.

I will state this very clearly: I LOVE Jayden Daniels, I love the draft we had, I love the job our FO office did in re-making this roster on the fly, and I love this coaching staff and wouldn't change a member of it. That said, FIVE GAMES into Jayden's career we can't argue that he can make JAGs into champions like Brady did, any more than we can say this staff can help him do it FIVE GMAES into their existence as a unit (please, Superman, save us from off-season raiding of our guys.)

And alllll of that said: how 'bout this crew on this board having this discussion about "is it time to start thinking about comparing the Washington Football franchise to the greatest dynasty of the Super Bowl era?"

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

JDs ability to stretch the play out means the opposing DBs have to cover receivers longer and as we all know generally a receiver will get open. I would think CB would be the top need. If Washington beats the Ravens man the hype is going to get ridiculous.

Their schedule after Baltimore: Carolina, Chicago, NYG, Pittsburgh with all but the Giants at home. They have a chance to do some damage heading into their back to back vs Philly and Dallas.

 

[usiel]

Not sure who brought up this NE model BS, imho, but stick a fork in that. Hind sight 20/20 on the moves some team in the past has made is a recipe for dumbassery.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I think we lose to Baltimore and it won’t be close. We'll see. I’ll certainly be rooting for the opposite.

 

[ynotcaps]

I think we lose to Baltimore and it won’t be close. We'll see. I’ll certainly be rooting for the opposite.

I'm worried about this one. I think the defensive plan has to be to make Lamar beat us with his arm, right? But the question is, can we? We have played 2 poor-men's versions of the Ravens so far: NYG and ARI. We got gashed by the interior running game in both instances but did manage to keep the mobile QBs from killing us. Henry and Lamar are each a league apart from those other opponents, but there's at least reason for cautious optimism (I hope.)

I think the Ravens probably should win, but every week there are at least a couple of games where you look at the final score and go, "how the **** did that happen?" Or at least, "Oh, man, that was a hell of a job by (random team)." Seems like we have a reasonable shot at being that (random team) this week.

Not sure who brought up this NE model BS, imho, but stick a fork in that. Hind sight 20/20 on the moves some team in the past has made is a recipe for dumbassery.

You 100% need to bookmark this post for easy retrieval when somebody (*cough-cough* the Jets *cough-cough*) hire Belichick this offseason.

 

[John Price]

The Niners became highly successful in the most part by finding and drafting talent in a homegrown organization. I don't see Washington giving up draft picks that can be used to restock a roster with more drafted talent

 

[marcel snapshot]

Receiver is literally not a need at the moment. Brown is doing well as a #2, Noah Brown is fine and Zaccharius is even filling in well.

This where I’m at. Dyami Brown was just on the receiving end of a back-breaking play (something he hasn’t done much of), Noah Brown looks good anytime he’s targeted, and McCaffrey shows promise as a possession/3rd down guy. And of course, Terry has gotten a lot of good looks the last 2 games. I can’t remember whether Higgins is already a diva or is just showing signs of becoming one (so weird how so many successful WRs take on these toxic narcissist qualities) - but Adams is certainly in that category. We got none of that, and don’t need it - especially with a rookie phenom becoming the bona fire team leader after 5 fuggin games.

 

[Ridley Simon]

The majority of the posters here are pretty much saying the same thing. Not all for sure, but most. It's not just me. So basically you're saying that anyone that doesn't agree with the minority opinion on this just wants to argue. Couple posts back citing analysts saying the same thing I am, and for the same reasons. They just want to argue?

It also kinda feels like you're just taking from these posts what you want to hear, cuz I've said several times that I'd sure like to get Higgins, just in a more reasonable way. To ignore those many mentions to make it sound like I don't like Higgins or appreciate him enough? That's something someone that wants to argue would do.

Negative. I hear you. I just think you are overvaluing and over-glamorizing 3rd round picks and our new regimes prowess with them.

Look, I get you’d rather wait for FA. But that’s always such a crapshoot, AND jacks prices up. Why go thru that? All because of 3rd round picks?

Skins seemingly have a chance THIS YEAR, in a seemingly winnable NFC, to do damage. Why ignore this chance?

RG3’s window was one year. One.

Will that repeat? Sure as f*** hope not! But why wait?

Anyway, we can agree to disagree.

 

[Ridley Simon]

This where I’m at. Dyami Brown was just on the receiving end of a back-breaking play (something he hasn’t done much of), Noah Brown looks good anytime he’s targeted, and McCaffrey shows promise as a possession/3rd down guy. And of course, Terry has gotten a lot of good looks the last 2 games. I can’t remember whether Higgins is already a diva or is just showing signs of becoming one (so weird how so many successful WRs take on these toxic narcissist qualities) - but Adams is certainly in that category. We got none of that, and don’t need it - especially with a rookie phenom becoming the bona fire team leader after 5 fuggin games.

Higgins is showing signs of being a Diva? I must have missed that. Seriously.

 

[RedRocking]

Negative. I hear you. I just think you are overvaluing and over-glamorizing 3rd round picks and our new regimes prowess with them.

Look, I get you’d rather wait for FA. But that’s always such a crapshoot, AND jacks prices up. Why go thru that? All because of 3rd round picks?

Skins seemingly have a chance THIS YEAR, in a seemingly winnable NFC, to do damage. Why ignore this chance?

RG3’s window was one year. One.

Will that repeat? Sure as f*** hope not! But why wait?

Anyway, we can agree to disagree.

I’m actually taking the longer view of this. I don’t think we need anymore offensive help this year. I’m cool with just seeing how far we can go as we continue to have good vibes and no real expectations.

But after this year, I’m looking at the 4 years we’ll have of JD on the cheap. For those 4 years I’d be fine paying for a proven guy like Higgins to be WR2 (or 1B). We already have LMC, who’s coming along nicely. But any more picks used towards WRs aren’t likely to quickly produce an impact guy during that 4 yr window (assuming we won’t use early picks on an elite talent).

Instead, I’m assuming we’ll be using our top picks on serious needs like EDGE/DB. Good WRs often get to market when their QBs get too expensive - impact EDGE guys normally don’t .

The trade idea of 3rds only matters to me if, for whatever reason, that would be the only way to lock up a guy like Higgins.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I’m actually taking the longer view of this. I don’t think we need anymore offensive help this year. I’m cool with just seeing how far we can go as we continue to have good vibes and no real expectations.

But after this year, I’m looking at the 4 years we have left of JD on the cheap. For those 4 years I’d be fine in paying for a proven guy like Higgins to be WR2 (or 1B). We already have LMC, who’s coming along nicely. But any more picks used towards WR aren’t going to be that Impactful during the 4 yr window. Especially assuming we’re

So it’s ok to throw away this year? Not try to actually make a dent?

I dunno. We have 5 yrs of cheap Jayden. Why sacrifice any of them?

For most teams, NFL success is fleeting. If the iron is warming up, strike it!

 

[RedRocking]

So it’s ok to throw away this year? Not try to actually make a dent?

I dunno. We have 5 yrs of cheap Jayden. Why sacrifice any of them?

For most teams, NFL success is fleeting. If the iron is warming up, strike it!

Quick note: I hit post prematurely, so that was just the first draft of what I was writing.

If we used those 3rds as a way to secure a long term deal with Higgins, then that would be fine by me. I’m just agreeing with the sentiment that our offense is clicking, and we don’t necessarily need that kind of move right now. And not interested in rentals.

If we are focused on competing this year, then making moves on the defensive side of the ball would take priority imho. Just not sure who would be available to help move the needle.

 

[trick9]

I think we lose to Baltimore and it won’t be close. We'll see. I’ll certainly be rooting for the opposite.

I like our odds... knowing they seem to be huge underdogs here.

Ravens have their issues. From what i've seen they are really good 1st half team and if we can keep it close there's no reason we can't win this. Ravens have given up 19+ points in the 2nd half in 3 of their last 4 games. They have huge issues finishing the games. On top of that their pass defense has been absolute garbage so far and while their rushing D has been great, they haven't faced a team that rushes as well as the Commanders so far.

It's a big task but hardly an impossible one. If the offense is playing like they did against the Bengals then this is a W.

 

[g00n]

This is what concerns me about Higgins. It's not the 3rd for the skill set or age, it's assets for a guy who is pretty much guaranteed to go down with injury.

Tee Higgins Injury History & Updates

Tee Higgins Injury History & Updates. Our injury data is so comprehensive, even NFL teams have paid for it. Our algorithm even predicts injuries

www.draftsharks.com

I guess if you think the timeline is so accelerated that you're making a play for a deep run this season, sure you pull the trigger and hope for the best. If he really only misses 2-3 games, that's ok. So long as they're not the last games of the season and his absence costs the team advancement in the playoffs.

But just as 5 games in isn't enough to anoint JD a HOF QB, 5 games probably isn't enough to say "we're all-in this year".

/shrug

 

[John Price]

The team is ahead of schedule and has already equalled last year's win mark. Everything is just peachy right now.

I want to see what they do in the draft wherever they end up. Let Peters cook some more, draft some defensive studs and go at it. Plus we still have cap space. They've been using the cap room very cleverly unlike Snyder-run administrations. Luvu in fact is already becoming a great deal

 

[John Price]

watch out for tequila

 

[kicksavedave]

I really thought after 24 years of seeing Dan Snyder do it the wrong ways over and over, we'd finally be excited to watch Adam Peters build a team the right way. I guess old memories are hard to shake.