CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
- 66,015
- 20,929
Getting his hitchhiking thumb ready for when he gets cut!
I think it's a good set of guys you list, recognizing you're not saying he's at their level.Fair enough. And by that metric, you'd have to say the same about all franchise quarterbacks that haven't won a title. Rivers, Fouts, McNabb, Tarkenton, Moon, Marino. There's a long list.
I'm not saying Cousins is right there with those guys, just that it's silly to say he wasn't a franchise QB. So silly that you really have to make these kinds of odd distinctions that don't even remove some of the best QBs ever from the conversation you're trying to have.
The sour grapes here has led to those types of departures from logic. And lots of people think that way. Elway was the king of "Couldn't Win The Big One" conversations until Denver finally put a respectable team around him. Same with Marino. And might you not be able to say the same about Cousins?
Last offseason after that "Quarterback" docuseries ran on Netflix, lots of people got their panties in a twist because Cousins came off so favorably. So there was an onslaught of "Can't Win The Big One" talk that labeled his as a Playoff Choker, many casually saying that he didn't have the icily dispassionate, killer demeanor of Joe Burrow. And at that moment in time, the truth was...
Those arguments just lack perspective, is all I'm saying. He played great for them, their D played for shit, and when reporters stuck a mic in his face, he took the heat because in addition to being a great QB, he's also the type of leader you'd want.
No, he's not the world's best anything and he has plenty of flaws. The arguments here over the years about keeping him in DC, is he worth X amount of money, and so on -- those were subjective arguments. This one isn't. The term has a very simple meaning. If you want to redefine it to mean something else so you can make a "This is MY truth" (which redefines truth, but whatever), go for it.
There's no need to move the goalposts so many times. They're heavy and awkward to carry around. You don't have to like the guy to concede that he's been pretty damn good at his job...
Oh, I think he is. If the replacement is a 3-legged dog. With mange.I was asking myself if Forbes is even replacement level. I suppose we shall find out.
So what you’re saying is I have about two days to get to DC for my starting jobOh, I think he is. If the replacement is a 3-legged dog. With mange.
Matt Ryan has a career record of 124-109-1 (+15), playoff record of 4-6, thrown for 62k yards….an MVP, a ROY, and made a Super Bowl.Franchise QBs usually don't get moved from their original team while still in their near-prime (there are exceptions like Brees and Peyton) because they're undeniably pre-HOF, and usually don't have consistently mediocre W/L seasons their entire career.
This is a decent article and of course the lists can be debated:
What exactly is a ‘franchise quarterback’?
It’s something that is hard to define, but easy to recognize after the fact.www.milehighreport.com
Cousins has a great agent and PR and figured out how to put up money making stats.
He accumulates a lot of yards per game and is in fact 11th all time in that category. But almost the entire list is now populated by current or recent QBs because the league has changed so much to emphasize passing (Dan Marino is 20th at 253yds/g, for example).
Maybe the best comparable is Matt Ryan, ironically also of the Falcons. Ryan spent 15 years in ATL (Cousins has 6 in DC and 6 in MIN), and like many other franchise QBs spent a year somewhere else trying to hang on to his career.
Ryan was pretty clearly THEIR franchise QB for that entire time. His stats are only slightly below Cousins in many categories and slightly higher in others (like yds/g). They seem similar in playing style, and have virtually identical career win % (about 53%).
So it's complicated. He'd be a 'franchise QB' on the Matt Ryan level, but not Brady or any of the other Tier 1 QBs.
The main confounder is he was getting Tier 1 money and that eventually pushed all the real Tier 1 guys even higher, making his own contract look more reasonable.
Schrodinger's Contract.
Is Ryan Tannehill a “Franchise QB”? By whatever metric you are using?I think this really distills down to two terms -- "Franchise QB" and "Franchise Player."
If an NFL team sticks with a quarterback for a long time, for good reason, and are making no effort to replace him during that time, they're a Franchise QB. A Franchise Player is, shockingly, a franchise's best player. You can be the Franchise QB without being the Franchise Player.
Dismissing Kirk as something less than a Franchise QB is pretty silly. His numbers are pretty stellar, both teams that let him go very much wanted to keep him. Last year was a perfect storm for him being let go -- that specific injury at that age with the ability to have that draft position in a deep, talented QB class. They made the smart choice, no question. But both teams -- the actual players on the field -- adored that guy, and both would have kept him if the circumstances were even slightly different.
So it has little to do with how many teams you play for. Plenty of truly great QBs have switched teams for various reasons, especially in the Cap/FA Era. It matters that your team wins, but not necessarily that you win it all. Plenty of truly great QBs never won a title or never made it to a title game. Being a Franchise QB is simply having a franchise keep you as their QB unquestionably for a long period of time.
Kirk is a great quarterback. The notion that he's just got a good agent and is only concerned with piling up stats is total nonsense. He's a passionate competitor, very talented at the position, and his class, character, humility, and leadership are exactly what you'd want them to be. He pissed off a lot of fans in DC, for sure. And these hot takes on him being unremarkable are sour grapes.
I know this isn't a popular opinion here, but in this case the definition is evident. Cousins has clearly been a franchise quarterback for a long time. There's no interpretation required. That's simply what those two words mean when you use them together.
Yeah….but at least Kirk won one of those. It’s not like Marino, Rivers, Moon, McNair won that many! (Oh, they all won more? Ok, nvm)Success, IMO anyway, means taking your team to the playoffs, basically being a winner during the regular season at least.
Marino played in 18 playoff games, Rivers 12, Moon and McNair 10, and Luck, obviously in a shortened career, 8.
Cousins has played in 5.
Well, Kirk’s 40m a yr contract had something to do w the defenses demise, dontcha think?For most of Cousins' tenure in Minnesota, their offense was top 10, peaking at 4th; that's a thing you need a good QB to consistently do. Their defense fell apart. Before he got there, they had a defense and no offense. After he got there, they could score and couldn't hold teams back. The eternal Vikings Cycle of Futility.
BINGOI was simply responding to your assertion that those other guys were not ‘successful’ QB’s.
Is Cousins’ comparative lack of success all his fault? Of course not, but it isn’t difficult to see that his accumulation of stats/money has not correlated with much team success. And honestly, I don’t think that is a coincidence.
JFC yes.Aight I literally thing I've wasted minutes of my life having to read shit tastic Cousins retro discussions can we move on?
this is starting to get out of hand , i get it that KK/Quinn and maybe even Peters job is riding on JD but this doesn't do JD any favors , all it does is put added pressure on him and expectations that he can deliver sooner than he is probably able too
Everyone involved should be pilloried.Tua shouldn't even be playing anymore.
Kliff Kingsbury: Jayden Daniels turned my worst play call into a TD
Late in the fourth quarter of the Commanders' loss to the Buccaneers on Sunday, Jayden Daniels ran for a one-yard touchdown.www.nbcsports.com
View attachment 906754
I wonder if the Shanahans would ever have made such an admission. Or any other WFT coach other than maybe Zorn or Spurrier.
I wonder what play was called....
Everyone's run-blocking including WR and OL are pulling right so probably a draw right into the teeth of TB defensive pressure.