Blue Jays GDT: 2024 v5 | Wed, Aug 7 | vs Bal | 7pm ET/4pm PT | Kremer vs Gausman

[RoadWarrior]

And yet there are other stats that tell you MUCH more about the player and you've chosen to ignore those ones.

From an offensive standpoint OPS and on base % are the key numbers. If you ignore those then you’re delusional.

Horwitz with a 2 run double. *this* close from it being a 3 run homer.

This guy absolutely needs to be in the lineup every day next year.

They finally got lucky with a late round draft pick.

Holy shit.

This isn't 1945.

We can use stats like OPS, OPS+, WRC+ in 2024 to get a complete picture of how effective a player is at the plate which are much better, much more accurate, much more comprehensive stats that batting average.

Varsho's OPS is nearly identical to all of Jansen, Schneider, Clement, Turner, Springer. He's been a slightly below-average hitter this year. This is fact. It's incredible that people don't understand this. He has a low average but lots of XBH and takes quite a few walks to mostly make up for that low average.

And yes, he's basically having an Ozzie Smith season this year. Average hitting relative to a premium defensive position while being literally the best defensive player in the sport. He's on pace for a 5 bWAR season and has been the best player on the team this year and incredibly fans who don't understand math have singled him out as the biggest problem and some don't even think he should be a regular player. It's insane.

Vladdy is the all star. Not Varsho.

 

[Discoverer]

From an offensive standpoint OPS and on base % are the key numbers. If you ignore those then you’re delusional.

Sure, and Varsho's OPS is slightly below average.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Sure, and Varsho's OPS is slightly below average.

Key word being “below” as in less than…. Much like the rest of the team.

 

[Discoverer]

Key word being “below” as in less than…. Much like the rest of the team.

Uh... yeah. No one here has argued that he's an above average hitter. We're saying that Being a bit below average offensively and literally the best defensive player in the league makes him a good player (and very obviously a starting-calibre player on any team).

 

[RoadWarrior]

Uh... yeah. No one here has argued that he's an above average hitter. We're saying that Being a bit below average offensively and literally the best defensive player in the league makes him a good player (and very obviously a starting-calibre player on any team).

He’s not Devon White.

 

[Discoverer]

He’s not Devon White.

Uh... right. He's not.

 

[MK78]

Varsho will be fine in CF, even with his below average offense. They just need to find an offensive LF, and hopefully that Springer can be league average.

 

[MK78]

bases loaded nobody out in the 7th.

just a measly sac fly they get out of it...

 

[MS]

He’s not Devon White.

His season this year is basically identical to 1992 Devon White. 1991 and 1993 Devon White hit better.

 

[MK78]

Ernie Clement walks it off with a single!

 

[RoadWarrior]

His season this year is basically identical to 1992 Devon White. 1991 and 1993 Devon White hit better.

Devo was a substantially better hitter and better defensively compared with Varsho.

 

[Eyedea]

Devo was a substantially better hitter and better defensively compared with Varsho.

Based on what? Devo was actually a worse hitter than Varsho prior to joining the Jays in ‘91. If you compare through their age-28 years (which includes Devo’s career best offensive season) they are essentially identical (.001 OPS difference).

It’s hard to speak on defence statistically, but all that can be said is Devo was the best defensive CF of his era, while Varsho is clearly the best right now and creating his own era.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Based on what? Devo was actually a worse hitter than Varsho prior to joining the Jays in ‘91. If you compare through their age-28 years (which includes Devo’s career best offensive season) they are essentially identical (.001 OPS difference).

It’s hard to speak on defence statistically, but all that can be said is Devo was the best defensive CF of his era, while Varsho is clearly the best right now and creating his own era.

Devo was a career .263 hitter with a .316 OB% 419 slugging % and .739 OPS. Varsho has a career .224 batting average and .707 OPS…. And in decline as his OPS has dropped to .675 this year whereas Devo got better with age.

Devon White was a better player than Varsho.

 

[Hellcat]

Cubs acquire Pearson

Cubs Acquire Nate Pearson

The Cubs have acquired right-hander Nate Pearson in a trade with the Blue Jays, according to ESPN's Jesse Rogers and …

www.mlbtraderumors.com

https://www.milb.com/player/yohendrick-pinango-682818

 

[Eyedea]

Devo was a career .263 hitter with a .316 OB% 419 slugging % and .739 OPS. Varsho has a career .224 batting average and .707 OPS…. And in decline as his OPS has dropped to .675 this year whereas Devo got better with age.

Devon White was a better player than Varsho.

OPS is irrelevant when discussing different eras. Offence was significantly higher league wide from 1993-2001 compared to today. Not to say that Devo was having “help”… but pitching was also just not at the level we see today.

He was a pretty bad hitter as a regular from age 24-27. Devo was also below average in 1992 but was still one of the best players in the league in terms of overall value.

The entire point is that Varsho can still be that 3-5 WAR player as a full time CF with below average hitting. If it clicks like it did some years with Devo, then we’re looking at 6+ WAR seasons.

 

[RoadWarrior]

OPS is irrelevant when discussing different eras. Offence was significantly higher league wide from 1993-2001 compared to today. Not to say that Devo was having “help”… but pitching was also just not at the level we see today.

OPS is irrelevant when discussing different eras. Offence was significantly higher league wide from 1993-2001 compared to today. Not to say that Devo was having “help”… but pitching was also just not at the level we see today.

He was a pretty bad hitter as a regular from age 24-27. Devo was also below average in 1992 but was still one of the best players in the league in terms of overall value.

The entire point is that Varsho can still be that 3-5 WAR player as a full time CF with below average hitting. If it clicks like it did some years with Devo, then we’re looking at 6+ WAR seasons.

Nice try.

Devos career OPS+ is 98 and was 102 with the Jays. Varsho career OPS+ is 95 and in decline around 90 this year.

 

[Hellcat]

Based on what? Devo was actually a worse hitter than Varsho prior to joining the Jays in ‘91. If you compare through their age-28 years (which includes Devo’s career best offensive season) they are essentially identical (.001 OPS difference).

It’s hard to speak on defence statistically, but all that can be said is Devo was the best defensive CF of his era, while Varsho is clearly the best right now and creating his own era.

All Varsho need to do to be successful offensively is just get on base, BB, HBP, H, bunt what ever he needs to do. #1 He needs to shrink his strike zone like Ricky Henderson did, get smaller in the box. He needs to learn how to be a slap hitter, with his speed, he would put so much pressure on the pitcher and make the hitter at the plate a better hitter by just creating havoc on the basepaths. Surprising he's not even the fastest sprint speed on the team Clement and Kiermeier are faster.

Statcast Sprint Speed Leaderboard

Baseball Savant

baseballsavant.mlb.com

 

[GermanJay]

Completely Game for Gausman. He should be shopped as well, maybe somebody bites

 

[Eyedea]

Nice try.

Devos career OPS+ is 98 and was 102 with the Jays. Varsho career OPS+ is 95 and in decline around 90 this year.

Devo had the exact same career wRC+ as Varsho did at 27…

He was also coming off his worst offensive season in his career and looked to be in “decline”.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Devo had the exact same career wRC+ as Varsho did at 27…

He was also coming off his worst offensive season in his career and looked to be in “decline”.

Varsho has been in decline for 4 straight seasons at the plate. He’s not getting better and will never surpass Devon White. Pitchers have the book on him.

That’s reality. Stop shilling for Atkins and his stupidity.

 

[Eyedea]

Varsho has been in decline for 4 straight seasons at the plate. He’s not getting better and will never surpass Devon White. Pitchers have the book on him.

That’s reality. Stop shilling for Atkins and his stupidity.

Again, OPS is a flawed stat and you’re missing a terrible amount of year-to-year context and variability.

It’s like arguing that Dante Bichette was as good of a hitter as Roberto Clemente.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Again, OPS is a flawed stat and you’re missing a terrible amount of year-to-year context and variability.

It’s like arguing that Dante Bichette was as good of a hitter as Roberto Clemente.

Varsho is neither Dante Bichette or Roberto Clemente lol. Must be nice to be so delusional. You should start a Varsho fan club.

 

[Eyedea]

Varsho is neither Dante Bichette or Roberto Clemente lol. Must be nice to be so delusional. You should start a Varsho fan club.

I wasn’t comparing Varsho to them? Plus you’re proving my point by thinking Dante Bichette is better than Varsho.

Talk about delusion lol

 

[RoadWarrior]

I wasn’t comparing Varsho to them? Plus you’re proving my point by thinking Dante Bichette is better than Varsho.

Talk about delusion lol

That’s clearly not what I said.

 

[Eyedea]

That’s clearly not what I said.

You pretty much inferred that based on your disdain for Varsho.

I mean your main argument has been that Varsho is a bench player that should come on late for defensive purposes. I’ve still yet to see any legitimate reason as to why he should, or really why someone hates having a valuable CFer this much.