2024 Tour de France

[#37]

Nice lead out by MvdP. Ho-hum, tomorrow should be a good one.

 

[#37]

Hmm. Riders going out the back early in the stage, announcers saying 'must be illness'. Then two Cofidis riders (Ion Izagirre, Alexis Renard) quit on the stage, before the climbs, and get into team car suffering from 'illness'. Then announcers saying, 'several of the riders looked peaked this morning...'

Got me thinking that COVID might be loose in the pelaton, which would be a shame. Pogacar just had it, so he should be OK.

Will see how this plays out in the long term. Might just be something they ate...

 

[Jack Straw]

The devil!

 

[#37]

Ah, Izagirre was racing with a broken rib. That would explain the withdrawal.

 

[#37]

Carnage at around 30k to go. Pogacar attacks, Jonas and Roglic follow... Remco doesn't have the legs, loosing time. Still two climbs ahead of them.

 

[Jack Straw]

Fantastic riding by Vingegaard, catching Pocagar on that climb.

 

[Jack Straw]

Wow. What a finish.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I have such mixed feelings watching this Tour. I really like Vingegaard but the better he rides the harder it is to suspend disbelief that he (and by extension many riders) are clean.

13 weeks ago he was in the hospital with a broken collarbone, multiple broken ribs, and a pneumothorax. Today he not only hangs with Pogacar and drops everyone in the mountains but beats him on the line for the stage win.

 

[#37]

Have to hand it to Remco, he road his a** off to limit the damage as much as he did.

 

[Maverick41]

Vingegaard is really impressing me. I did not think he'd have that in him at this point. I thought he would be very strong in the final week and make up some ground, but I expected him to be too far behind Pogacar at that point.

Sucks for Roglic. One little mishap, and 30 seconds are gone. He still has a chance to finish in the top3, but it will be difficult to catch anyone of the three ahead of him.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Does anyone hit the deck as much as Roglic? Maybe Geraint Thomas?

I was really hoping Roglic would be in the mix. He's such a great rider, but the guy can't seem to stay upright. It's a bummer.


Seeing the replay Pogacar was in a surprisingly small gear for a final sprint. Gassed? Mechanical issue?

 

[#37]

They gave Roglic the same time as Remco.

 

[QuietContrarian]

I have such mixed feelings watching this Tour. I really like Vingegaard but the better he rides the harder it is to suspend disbelief that he (and by extension many riders) are clean.

13 weeks ago he was in the hospital with a broken collarbone, multiple broken ribs, and a pneumothorax. Today he not only hangs with Pogacar and drops everyone in the mountains but beats him on the line for the stage win.

I understand the general skepticisms around cycling these days, personally I came to the conclusion however naive that might be, that I believe they are clean till proven otherwise. Also makes the race more enjoyable for me to watch. If I believed they were all dirty, I don't think I could defend to myself, watching cycling.

However, I feel like Jonas gets' a lot of doping doubts among general fans, compared to Pogi.
When Pogi does something amazing, it's usually followed by a lot of applause and people saying he is just a beast.

Whenever Jonas does, there always seem to be some fans doubting him, as well as the many jabs towards his personality. Especially from American fans after the Vuelta, even though he ended up helping Kuss win instead of taking the win himself.

Imo, and admitted this could just be homerism, but I think Jonas gets' a lot of unfair flack, and a lot of unfair skepticisms compared to other top riders.

According to many Pogi is a great guy, a charmer, funny - But Jonas is just called arrogant, which he is not at all.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I understand the general skepticisms around cycling these days, personally I came to the conclusion however naive that might be, that I believe they are clean till proven otherwise. Also makes the race more enjoyable for me to watch. If I believed they were all dirty, I don't think I could defend to myself, watching cycling.

However, I feel like Jonas gets' a lot of doping doubts among general fans, compared to Pogi.
When Pogi does something amazing, it's usually followed by a lot of applause and people saying he is just a beast.

Whenever Jonas does, there always seem to be some fans doubting him, as well as the many jabs towards his personality. Especially from American fans after the Vuelta, even though he ended up helping Kuss win instead of taking the win himself.

Imo, and admitted this could just be homerism, but I think Jonas gets' a lot of unfair flack, and a lot of unfair skepticisms compared to other top riders.

According to many Pogi is a great guy, a charmer, funny - But Jonas is just called arrogant, which he is not at all.

I know what you're saying. For me, I don't find Jonas arrogant at all. I just think he's a lot more reserved than Pogacar. And frankly more of a tactical rider. Whereas Pogacar attacks all the time, often when it's a bad idea.

In terms of the doping, I think the TT performance in last year's Tour put the spotlight more on Jonas. He's such a light rider and a climber. It's highly unusual for riders like him to be able to generate that kind of power. And he destroyed absolutely everyone by such a wide margin, larger than when Pogacar beat Roglic. But this year for me it's all about his miraculous recovery from his very serious injuries.

Admittedly I am probably jaded. I've been watching cycling a long time so remember the Festina affair and the Armstrong years and all the doping around that time and all the excuses that went with them. How in 1999 everyone was hoping cycling might be clean after the Festina affair, then they saw Armstrong shoot up that first mountain climb and insiders were like "aww crap." Because they knew it was going to be a doping arms race still.

And frankly testing continues to be a joke. Jonas missed a doping test in 2019 because of a "broken doorbell." Which has echoes of Tyler Hamilton hiding behind his couch to avoid getting tested when he wasn't clean.

I know keeping up with the technological side of doping is difficult, but the protocols are still ridiculously lax.

And to be totally clear, as I said in my post about doping, the reason it bums me out is if Jonas is in fact doping, then he is definitely not the only one. Which means you have to look at riders like Wout, Sepp Kuss, Pogacar, Remco, etc...

 

[QuietContrarian]

I know what you're saying. For me, I don't find Jonas arrogant at all. I just think he's a lot more reserved than Pogacar. And frankly more of a tactical rider. Whereas Pogacar attacks all the time, often when it's a bad idea.

In terms of the doping, I think the TT performance in last year's Tour put the spotlight more on Jonas. He's such a light rider and a climber. It's highly unusual for riders like him to be able to generate that kind of power. And he destroyed absolutely everyone by such a wide margin, larger than when Pogacar beat Roglic. But this year for me it's all about his miraculous recovery from his very serious injuries.

Admittedly I am probably jaded. I've been watching cycling a long time so remember the Festina affair and the Armstrong years and all the doping around that time and all the excuses that went with them. How in 1999 everyone was hoping cycling might be clean after the Festina affair, then they saw Armstrong shoot up that first mountain climb and insiders were like "aww crap." Because they knew it was going to be a doping arms race still.

And frankly testing continues to be a joke. Jonas missed a doping test in 2019 because of a "broken doorbell." Which has echoes of Tyler Hamilton hiding behind his couch to avoid getting tested when he wasn't clean.

I know keeping up with the technological side of doping is difficult, but the protocols are still ridiculously lax.

And to be totally clear, as I said in my post about doping, the reason it bums me out is if Jonas is in fact doping, then he is definitely not the only one. Which means you have to look at riders like Wout, Sepp Kuss, Pogacar, Remco, etc...

I agree, and it's refreshing to hear that someone can deduce that he is simply reserved.

He embodies the typical Northern Jutlander: reserved, calm, and collected. He consistently handles criticism and nonsense from other riders with remarkable composure.

For instance, when Evenepoel remarked that he had no "balls", he simply smiled and said, "I think I was smart to conserve energy.

If I had gone with them, I would have lost the tour then and there." Jonas is a better tactician and has superior stamina, particularly in long mountain stages. However, Pogi is the better all-around rider.

I understand your perspective, but in my opinion, one missed control shouldn't be cause for skepticism. He had witnesses who confirmed that the doorbell was not functioning and that he was indeed at home. He has never missed a control before or since. There was a lot of discussion in Denmark, and the national sports news interviewed several people from his town and those involved in his setup. It all seemed legitimate.

Regarding his miraculous recovery, I don't see how doping could have helped with that, unless he used steroids or HGH, which I highly doubt. He was in a hospital with many doctors and nurses, not in some corrupt doctor’s homemade clinic. Even after his hospitalization, steroids and HGH seem like the only substances that could directly affect his rehabilitation, and both are highly doubtful.

The time trial was incredible, and I can see why some folks might be wary, but Pogi also does some astonishing things and seldom gets questioned for it. The same goes for Rog, Evenepoel, Van Aert, etc.

People seem to like to criticize JV for some reason. Considering he has won two Grand Tours and almost took the Vuelta, the respect for him is very low.

I understand being jaded; I was extremely tired of cycling, especially after the 2007 Tour. I have been watching since the early '90s.

When a second Dane was suspended for doping while wearing the Yellow Jersey, I lost interest. In the end, I couldn't stay away and returned in 2012, deciding to give it one more chance. Either I believe them, or I don't watch, just one more time.

However, I don't understand fans who let some riders get the benefit of the doubt while constantly hounding or trash-talking others.

To me, Pogi fans, in particular, are bad about this, as are some neutrals - They also ALWAYS have excuses for Pogi. 2022 Visma had a better team, 2023 Pogi was tired after having injured his wrist, this year it is f***ing nutrition, even though UAE have the better team, and JV was severely injured 6 months ago.

 

[#37]

Mark Cavendish lead-out man Michael Mørkøv leaves Tour de France after testing positive for COVID-19

Astana-Qazaqstan's veteran lead-out master leaves the race ahead of stage 12 amid concerns of COVID-19 cases across the peloton

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I agree, and it's refreshing to hear that someone can deduce that he is simply reserved.

He embodies the typical Northern Jutlander: reserved, calm, and collected. He consistently handles criticism and nonsense from other riders with remarkable composure.

For instance, when Evenepoel remarked that he had no "balls", he simply smiled and said, "I think I was smart to conserve energy.

If I had gone with them, I would have lost the tour then and there." Jonas is a better tactician and has superior stamina, particularly in long mountain stages. However, Pogi is the better all-around rider.

I understand your perspective, but in my opinion, one missed control shouldn't be cause for skepticism. He had witnesses who confirmed that the doorbell was not functioning and that he was indeed at home. He has never missed a control before or since. There was a lot of discussion in Denmark, and the national sports news interviewed several people from his town and those involved in his setup. It all seemed legitimate.

Regarding his miraculous recovery, I don't see how doping could have helped with that, unless he used steroids or HGH, which I highly doubt. He was in a hospital with many doctors and nurses, not in some corrupt doctor’s homemade clinic. Even after his hospitalization, steroids and HGH seem like the only substances that could directly affect his rehabilitation, and both are highly doubtful.

The time trial was incredible, and I can see why some folks might be wary, but Pogi also does some astonishing things and seldom gets questioned for it. The same goes for Rog, Evenepoel, Van Aert, etc.

People seem to like to criticize JV for some reason. Considering he has won two Grand Tours and almost took the Vuelta, the respect for him is very low.

I understand being jaded; I was extremely tired of cycling, especially after the 2007 Tour. I have been watching since the early '90s.

When a second Dane was suspended for doping while wearing the Yellow Jersey, I lost interest. In the end, I couldn't stay away and returned in 2012, deciding to give it one more chance. Either I believe them, or I don't watch, just one more time.

However, I don't understand fans who let some riders get the benefit of the doubt while constantly hounding or trash-talking others.

To me, Pogi fans, in particular, are bad about this, as are some neutrals - They also ALWAYS have excuses for Pogi. 2022 Visma had a better team, 2023 Pogi was tired after having injured his wrist, this year it is f***ing nutrition, even though UAE have the better team, and JV was severely injured 6 months ago.

Agreed re: Pogacar v Vingegaard. I guess like most things these days people seem to be in two camps. If someone's a Pogacar fan then they feel the need to trash Jonas and vice versa.

The missed doping test was more an example of how ridiculously they still handle testing. Like they couldn't knock on the door? This isn't about Jonas but there needs to be better, more organized efforts by testers and bigger consequences if a rider misses.

Honestly if Jonas did dope after his crash that would be my guess too, HGH and steroids to aid recovery once he was out of the hospital .

There's also rumors of Tapentadol being rampant in the peloton. It's a much more powerful tramadol and allows riders to push through pain. It's classified at the same level as heroin in the UK, but weirdly is not technically even a banned substance yet. Again, the UCI dropping the ball.

Anyway, I like both riders. I think Jonas is humble, classy, extremely talented though at times so tactical (not surprising as part of the Visma machine) can be a bit boring in races. Pogacar is outgoing, generally respectful, an extremely talented and exciting rider, though can sometimes be frustrating with his ill advised attacks and tactics (UAE is also partly to blame here). We're lucky to have them both at the same time rather than an era where one rider dominates everything.

I somehow missed the Remco comment about having balls. What a clown. Just when I was starting to come around on that guy.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Oh man, Roglic hits the deck again. That road furniture was destined to cause a crash. Low enough not to be seen but high enough you cant just bunny hop and ride over it. So stupid.

 

[Chris5225]

Roglic probably won't podium this year.

Wout, Jasper, and Cav all near the front for this sprint finish.

Girmay extends his lead, his speed is insane.

 

[#37]

Roglic has abandoned the Tour. Two crashes in two days took a toll.

 

[#37]

UAE's Ayuso apparently tested positive for COVID and has withdrawn.

 

[Chris5225]

UAE's Ayuso apparently tested positive for COVID and has withdrawn.

Not great for Pogi but they still have a strong team regardless. One of them is Adam Yates, who is currently ruining the chances of a bunch of teams in the breakaway.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Oh man, sad news Roglic abandoned.

And a bummer that covid seems to be in the peloton. I wonder what kind of measures teams have in place to minimize exposure.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I don't understand what Pogacar was doing there at the end. He races like he's more interested in total stage wins than winning the GC.

Bummer Wout didn't get Philipssen at the line. He's been close several times now.

 

[#37]

Not great for Pogi but they still have a strong team regardless. One of them is Adam Yates, who is currently ruining the chances of a bunch of teams in the breakaway.

Yes, but it is in the team most likely... I wonder who Ayusa;s room-mate is? If it is Almeida, it would be a concern. It was mentioned that Bahrain's Fred Wright and Pelio Bilbao were room-mates, both out with COVID. Visma were wearing masks before the race started.