OT: 2024 Soccer and Vancouver Whitecaps Thread

[Frostage]

Still trying to figure out how the deal with Apple benefits the Caps. I can only assume their share of the revenue exceeds what they might hope for from gate receipts from the casual fan.

It's just bizarre to me that I wasn't able to watch my home team compete in their playoff games.

Wasn't that a league decision?

 

[VanJack]

I would argue the Whitecaps had average to above-average depth for MLS, actually. It's a salary-capped league after the special exceptions, so there aren't really any teams in the league that don't suffer when players are absent. Rather, the Caps' gap compared to the flagship teams was really with the higher-end talent.

From what little I saw of the Caps this year, it seemed to me that when Rryan Gauld and Brian White are out of the lineup, they're just not the same team.

But if people feel the Whitecaps depth is the equivalent of any team in the MLS, then I defer to them. Just don't see enough games to comment.

 

[Jyrki21]

From what little I saw of the Caps this year, it seemed to me that when Rryan Gauld and Brian White are out of the lineup, they're just not the same team.

Well yeah, that’s their two leading scorers. There isn’t a team in the league that won’t be noticeably worse when that happens.

I’m a broken record on this, but the Whitecaps are very much in the league’s mushy-middle majority. They are at a decided disadvantage compared to the other ones (turf, West, Canada) which means they are on the lower end of it and unlikely to ever win big, but the “darling” teams are the ones who get all the attention, so fans have an impression that they are the norm. But they really aren’t.

 

[CascadiaPuck]

Team for sale:

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-whitecaps-owners-selling-the-team

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Team for sale:

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-whitecaps-owners-selling-the-team

Massive news.

This is either really good news or horrific news for the franchise depending on who steps up to buy the franchise.

The current ownership group clearly lacked any ambition to invest in the franchise. Either cheaping out on-field personnel in their early days or going the route of spending on players but totally cheaping out when it came to managing/scouting personnel.

There are a few concerns.

You can bet there are many thirsty business moguls and consortiums down in the USA licking their chops at an opportunity for relocation. I don't think there would be much resistance from Don Garber given the fact we posted the lowest revenue in the league.

A local ownership group would have to be ok with really not inheriting much. There's no soccer specific stadium nor feasible sites to build one. They are stuck at BC Place if they buy the franchise.
The only local guy that I could see realistically buying this franchise is Amar Doman who owns the BC Lions. However, running costs may be too high for him.

Unfortunately I have a sinking feeling this city is about to lose their MLS franchise. It's been the sentiment I've had for a few years due to the overall lack of fan interest along with the fact we are a smallish market that cannot attract a full cast of decent players.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Good riddance.

Cheapskates from the beginning.

Now trying to sell when team values have gone up as they don't want to spend the money for a competitive team.

 

[logan5]

Francesco Aquilini showed interest in putting forth an expansion bid back in 2008, so I have to think he has a lot of interest now. He has deep pockets and is a sports fan that likes winning. The first thing the new owner needs to do is build a soccer specific stadium. burnaby is willing to put up some land and money at Swangard, so there's a huge opportunity there. Finally and chance to put this franchise on the right track.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Francesco Aquilini showed interest in putting forth an expansion bid back in 2008, so I have to think he has a lot of interest now. He has deep pockets and is a sports fan that likes winning. The first thing the new owner needs to do is build a soccer specific stadium. burnaby is willing to put up some land and money at Swangard, so there's a huge opportunity there. Finally and chance to put this franchise on the right track.

The only way FAQ invests any money in a new site is if there's incredible real estate potential with the site. This is where I think the Waterfront Stadium may be up his ally because you could theoretically build swaths of developments over the railyards.

 

[logan5]

The only way FAQ invests any money in a new site is if there's incredible real estate potential with the site. This is where I think the Waterfront Stadium may be up his ally because you could theoretically build swaths of developments over the railyards.

The City has other plans for the waterfront. Just not going to happen, as fantastic as it would be, as in best stadium experience in NA.

There wouldn't be any potential to build condo towers right at the Swangard sight, but there's always real estate potential around a major stadium. If a new stadium were built at Swangard, you are already in a high demand dense neighbourhood like Metrotown. The City of Vancouver would almost certainly up zone the area across from Swangard, to allow towers, so lots of opportunity there.

The Whitecaps are the 2nd lowest valuable team in the league, so the value can only go up for the new owner, and it probly wouldn't be long for the Whitecaps with their own stadium, and all the teams in general for their valuations to hit 1 billion in 20 years or so.

 

[VanJack]

Massive news.

This is either really good news or horrific news for the franchise depending on who steps up to buy the franchise.

The current ownership group clearly lacked any ambition to invest in the franchise. Either cheaping out on-field personnel in their early days or going the route of spending on players but totally cheaping out when it came to managing/scouting personnel.

There are a few concerns.

You can bet there are many thirsty business moguls and consortiums down in the USA licking their chops at an opportunity for relocation. I don't think there would be much resistance from Don Garber given the fact we posted the lowest revenue in the league.

A local ownership group would have to be ok with really not inheriting much. There's no soccer specific stadium nor feasible sites to build one. They are stuck at BC Place if they buy the franchise.
The only local guy that I could see realistically buying this franchise is Amar Doman who owns the BC Lions. However, running costs may be too high for him.

Unfortunately I have a sinking feeling this city is about to lose their MLS franchise. It's been the sentiment I've had for a few years due to the overall lack of fan interest along with the fact we are a smallish market that cannot attract a full cast of decent players.

Is there much history in MLS of a team pulling up stakes and moving to another city? My impression is that while MLS has welcomed a slew of expansion teams into the fold, nobody has left an existing market and moved to a new location.

I think it's probably something that the MLS discourages......but of course they have located in some markets that make you wonder about their long-term viability. But I just can't see MLS wanting to abandon the Vancouver market, given its soccer history and natural rivalry with Seattle and Portland.

 

[Bubbles]

Unfortunately I have a sinking feeling this city is about to lose their MLS franchise. It's been the sentiment I've had for a few years due to the overall lack of fan interest along with the fact we are a smallish market that cannot attract a full cast of decent players.

I was curious at that comment, then I looked up the Whitecaps attendance this year and it increased 56% this year from 2023. 26,121 from 2023's 16,745 average. If anyone can explain why the huge increase, I would like to know.


I think Vancouver will always be a small potatos team in the MLS no matter the owner. Maybe if some rich Saudi or Red Bull buys it, there will be money flowing.

It would have been a whole different story had Kerfoot been allowed to build that waterfront stadium. Don't know the exact reasons but I think it was the city, the port authority, cn rail and various other parties that said no.

 

[VanJack]

I was curious at that comment, then I looked up the Whitecaps attendance this year and it increased 56% this year from 2023. 26,121 from 2023's 16,745 average. If anyone can explain why the huge increase, I would like to know.


I think Vancouver will always be a small potatos team in the MLS no matter the owner. Maybe if some rich Saudi or Red Bull buys it, there will be money flowing.

It would have been a whole different story had Kerfoot been allowed to build that waterfront stadium. Don't know the exact reasons but I think it was the city, the port authority, cn rail and various other parties that said no.

The Whitecaps are like the B.C. Lions.....there's a core of supporters who come out every year. In case of the caps it's the same 20,000-25,000 fans--many of whom have supported the team for years.

But you can't spend the hundreds of millions necessary for a waterfront stadium, even if the Port and the Province had been willing to give up the land....which was never in the cards. I mean how could you ever justify such an expense for the same 20,000 or so hardy fans.....and how long would it take for a waterfront stadium to become a total 'white elephant'?

A natural grass stadium like BMO Field might work in a City like Toronto, which is almost three times bigger than Vancouver. But a waterfront natural grass field in Vancouver was a pipe dream.

 

[Wry n Ginger]

It really pisses me off that the owners will profit so much after being such shyte owners.

 

[Bubbles]

The Whitecaps are like the B.C. Lions.....there's a core of supporters who come out every year. In case of the caps it's the same 20,000-25,000 fans--many of whom have supported the team for years.

But you can't spend the hundreds of millions necessary for a waterfront stadium, even if the Port and the Province had been willing to give up the land....which was never in the cards. I mean how could you ever justify such an expense for the same 20,000 or so hardy fans.....and how long would it take for a waterfront stadium to become a total 'white elephant'?

A natural grass stadium like BMO Field might work in a City like Toronto, which is almost three times bigger than Vancouver. But a waterfront natural grass field in Vancouver was a pipe dream.

It was only $70 million or so back in 2004? when it was proposed. And look at that land now, it's still a bunch of parking spots and a gravel lot. I don't see how it would be a white elephant and when it was going to be used for other sporting events and music concerts.

But that is a dead issue, there was too many parties with too much at stake.

Don't think the Caps can keep using a government owned stadium for much longer. They have to build their own facility with real grass.

 

[End on a Hinote]

I swear if we lose the Caps I will lose all hope of Vancouver ever being a legit sports city, and ever acquiring any more pro sports teams.

I'm not saying I ever expected the NBA to return, or an MLB team but I always had that small glimmer of hope. But if they can't keep a team in a "mid" league that's more or less a laughing stock to European football fans (regardless if its the fans or owners to blame), it will just put the final nail in the coffin of any hope I have of the city being anything other than another run of the mill Canadian city. At least as far as sports go.

Maybe I've been delusional for thinking that Vancouver had that Toronto type potential to play along with the US cities in other leagues despite its population difference.

NHL, CFL, Junior hockey, that's it. Better than nothing, I guess.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

I was curious at that comment, then I looked up the Whitecaps attendance this year and it increased 56% this year from 2023. 26,121 from 2023's 16,745 average. If anyone can explain why the huge increase, I would like to know.


I think Vancouver will always be a small potatos team in the MLS no matter the owner. Maybe if some rich Saudi or Red Bull buys it, there will be money flowing.

It would have been a whole different story had Kerfoot been allowed to build that waterfront stadium. Don't know the exact reasons but I think it was the city, the port authority, cn rail and various other parties that said no.

The Messi/Inter Miami effect. There were many casuals that purchased season tickets solely to watch the Inter Miami dream team play here (lol). Many casuals attended random games but ultimately...there were many nights when the place was practically empty. I reckon we will see a sizeable drop in season ticket holders next year.

I swear if we lose the Caps I will lose all hope of Vancouver ever being a legit sports city, and ever acquiring any more pro sports teams.

We are no longer a working class city and local sports fans here no longer have disposable income. Rich newcomers tend not to care about pro-sports.

It's a massive issue and one that gets overlooked. There's little opportunity for growth in this market.

 

[Bubbles]

I swear if we lose the Caps I will lose all hope of Vancouver ever being a legit sports city, and ever acquiring any more pro sports teams.

I'm not saying I ever expected the NBA to return, or an MLB team but I always had that small glimmer of hope. But if they can't keep a team in a "mid" league that's more or less a laughing stock to European football fans (regardless if its the fans or owners to blame), it will just put the final nail in the coffin of any hope I have of the city being anything other than another run of the mill Canadian city. At least as far as sports go.

Maybe I've been delusional for thinking that Vancouver had that Toronto type potential to play along with the US cities in other leagues despite its population difference.

NHL, CFL, Junior hockey, that's it. Better than nothing, I guess.

I've always discussed that Vancouver is barely a sports town at all. It's a Canucks town, not even a hockey town. Lots of great junior hockey in an around the Lower Mainland but you really hear nothing in the major media outlets. Abbotsford is only relevant because of their now Canucks association, no one cared when they were the Heat.

The Messi/Inter Miami effect. There were many casuals that purchased season tickets solely to watch the Inter Miami dream team play here (lol). Many casuals attended random games but ultimately...there were many nights when the place was practically empty. I reckon we will see a sizeable drop in season ticket holders next year.


We are no longer a working class city and local sports fans here no longer have disposable income. Rich newcomers tend not to care about pro-sports.

It's a massive issue and one that gets overlooked. There's little opportunity for growth in this market.

Oh yeah I totally forgot about the Messi thing. I guess I've totally put the Whitecaps game out of my mind since they burned me on those tickets. I'll never be a fan of them again. I'd rather give my money to a 2nd. Bundesliga team than the Caps.

 

[End on a Hinote]

I've always discussed that Vancouver is barely a sports town at all. It's a Canucks town, not even a hockey town. Lots of great junior hockey in an around the Lower Mainland but you really hear nothing in the major media outlets. Abbotsford is only relevant because of their now Canucks association, no one cared when they were the Heat.

And you're right. Even as far as junior hockey. That fact that Seattle and Everett have such passionate fanbases and the Giants had to move to a smaller arena in Langley is just sad.

 

[Bubbles]

And you're right. Even as far as junior hockey. That fact that Seattle and Everett have such passionate fanbases and the Giants had to move to a smaller arena in Langley is just sad.

The Giants have been irrelevant since moving to Langley. I remember going to games at the PNE colosseum and there were 10,000 crowds regularly and a great atmosphere. I've been to LEC games and the crowd is barely 4000 most nights.

I'm a big BCHL guy and outside of the people in the actual arena, I see no discussion or anyone talking about it. I live in Surrey and go to Eagles games and when I talk about them at work, I get this wide eyed stare from regular joes.