GDT: 2024 Rookie Tournament

[Burrowsaurus]

Actually, defenders will say look at how the team performs overall in the second round instead of on a pick by pick basis because looking at an individual pick is either dishonest or plain stupid way of evaluating a teams drafting when the expected return of an individual pick is bust.

eliasson nordberg Ben Roger ostapchuk jarventie kleven pinto formenton dahlin chlapik Gagne.

Not that great?

 

[dumbdick]

I find the comment very odd. Is this what our scouts were telling them? Is this what Poulin thinks? Are some or all of these people blind?

It's hard not to wonder how much this "elite" skating factored into their ranking of him and their selection of him at 7. If they viewed him as merely an okay skater with some warts, would they have had him that high?

Yeah it's pretty weird. Was anyone else pumping Yak's skating pre-draft? Elite?

 

[Senator Stanley]

Yeah it's pretty weird. Was anyone else pumping Yak's skating pre-draft? Elite?

Not that I'm aware of. Pronman had him ranked third on his list and labelled him an NHL average skater (presumably on projection), which I think is a reasonable opinion:

"That he skates well and can attack with his skill makes him so difficult to stop as he often dances by checkers. His skating stride isn't technically perfect. It can break down at times with his legs starting to flail at the end of shifts, but it's a powerful stride and he often pulls away from pressure."

 

[Hale The Villain]

I find the comment very odd. Is this what our scouts were telling them? Is this what Poulin thinks? Are some or all of these people blind?

It's hard not to wonder how much this "elite" skating factored into their ranking of him and their selection of him at 7. If they viewed him as merely an okay skater with some warts, would they have had him that high?

I'm going to chalk the comment up to Poulin just recently leaving Canadian hockey media and the propagandist nature of that occupation.

Mostly because the alternative would be so much worse. If he and the scouts legitimately think Yakemchuk is an elite skater they should institutionalized, not merely just fired for cause.

 

[Micklebot]

eliasson nordberg Ben Roger ostapchuk jarventie kleven pinto formenton dahlin chlapik Gagne.

Not that great?

Based on your list, looking like 4 potential NHL players out of 10 picks if you defer this yrs pick since it's way too early. What do you think the typical success rate is on 2nd round picks?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Based on your list, looking like 4 NHL players out of 10 picks if you defer this yrs pick since it's way too early. What do you think the typical success rate is on 2nd round picks?

View attachment 907604

2 cups of coffee there with Dahlen and Chlapik at 61 and 57 games played as well.

 

[Micklebot]

2 cups of coffee there with Dahlen and Chlapik at 61 and 57 games played as well.

Yeah, it's not terrible, not amazing.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Yeah, it's not terrible, not amazing.

Agreed.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Based on your list, looking like 4 potential NHL players out of 10 picks if you defer this yrs pick since it's way too early. What do you think the typical success rate is on 2nd round picks?

View attachment 907604

Whatever the typical success rate is. I want to be significantly better.

It’s also a trend now. Last three years have been ghastly. In fact majority of our drafts have been ghastly.

 

[dumbdick]

Based on your list, looking like 4 potential NHL players out of 10 picks if you defer this yrs pick since it's way too early. What do you think the typical success rate is on 2nd round picks?

View attachment 907604

34% chance of getting what is usually a replacement level player.

2nd round picks have actual trade value that returns better than replacement level players.

We should be dealing them every single year.

Go back and look at what we got from 10 years of 2nd and 3rd round picks. Now swap in what we could have gotten in trade from those 20 picks. A 2nd + 3rd usually gets a good player in return.

 

[Micklebot]

Whatever the typical success rate is. I want to be significantly better.

It’s also a trend now. Last three years have been ghastly. In fact majority of our drafts have been ghastly.

And I want to win the lottery and go on a date with Taylor Swift but I have the common sense to not expect that to happen.

Every team will have up and down years at the draft, the key is minimizing the misses in the first round where you statistically should hit, we traded those picks (or used it for Boucher) which starts is off poorly, and now average drafting means not much to show.

 

[NyQuil]

As a small market team in Canada, we don’t have the luxury of missing on higher draft picks because the free agent pool will always be either more expensive for us or completely out of reach altogether.

Not to mention, our presence on most NTC lists.

 

[BondraTime]

As a small market team in Canada, we don’t have the luxury of missing on higher draft picks because the free agent pool will always be either more expensive for us or completely out of reach altogether.

Not to mention, our presence on most NTCs.

Yup.

With the picks they have had (and traded away) from 2021-2023, the Sens are incredibly far behind the 8 ball.

You can't make a pick in the 2nd round you legitimately don't offer a contract 1.5 years later. That's putrid scouting.

A rebuilding team that traded away two 1st's, and three 2nd's, and then missed on the 1st's and multiple 2nds they actually used in that time, it's bad, bad scouting and bad, bad management. Full stop.

Hopefully, 2024 works out better, the management issue has been sorted.

I fear the scouting issue still has a major rehaul to go, they need new blood and an outside promotion to head scout and head of european scouting incredibly bad.

 

[Micklebot]

As a small market team in Canada, we don’t have the luxury of missing on higher draft picks because the free agent pool will always be either more expensive for us or completely out of reach altogether.

Not to mention, our presence on most NTCs.

Its somewhat of a catch 22, we need to get our top players in the draft and if we miss we don't have other avenues to make up for it, but since we can't afford to miss, we can't take the risks needed to find that late gem who comes with some risk.

We took L.Brown at 11, I liked the pick, but missing on him really set us back when we could have gone after what looked like safer but lower ceiling picks in McAvoy, Chychrun or even guys like Bean, McLeod or Fabbro.

Our drafting has been average at best of late, and combined with trading off first Rd picks for short term pieces (yes, we intended them to be long term) average just isn't good enough. But, drafting isn't something you should expect to be above average at. If you absolutely need to fill the roster via the draft, you do that by drafting high quantity not be expecting your picks will be better than everyone else's.

 

[bert]

I was against drafting Tkachuk because I preferred Noah Dobson, a 6'4 defenseman who just put up 70 points.

Post history does not check out.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Overhauling the scouting department is just the first step. We also need drastic improvements in the developing of the kids we do draft. I know Melynk did start to change things over in Belleville...but a lot more needs to be done. Both in Belleville and here in Ottawa.

The best scouts on the planet still need to hand off these kids to people who will find a way to get the absolute best out of the kids we pick.

Drafting and development have to go hand in hand here. You can make 100 picks in a draft and not get one pro out of it, if your scouts suck....and you can pick a dozen future stars that all fizzle out if there's no one there to guide and mold them after the draft.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Whatever the typical success rate is. I want to be significantly better.

It’s also a trend now. Last three years have been ghastly. In fact majority of our drafts have been ghastly.

By saying the last three years, you are including this year’s draft which was just 2 or 3 months ago. Unless you’re a clairvoyant, I’m not sure how anyone can predict the draft results with accuracy at this time. Even the 2023 summer draft would be a little premature.

I’m not trying to state it's been good, or making a broader statement about our drafting, but just pointing out the obvious flaw in your “logic”.

 

[bert]

Overhauling the scouting department is just the first step. We also need drastic improvements in the developing of the kids we do draft. I know Melynk did start to change things over in Belleville...but a lot more needs to be done. Both in Belleville and here in Ottawa.

The best scouts on the planet still need to hand off these kids to people who will find a way to get the absolute best out of the kids we pick.

Drafting and development have to go hand in hand here. You can make 100 picks in a draft and not get one pro out of it, if your scouts suck....and you can pick a dozen future stars that all fizzle out if there's no one there to guide and mold them after the draft.

Sens have had great development that hasnt been the issue. Drafting really hasnt been that bad outside of the Boucher, Rogers run they had in 2021. Dorion just traded away all the teams picks in the middle of a rebuild.

The fact of the matter is its still not a big enough amateur scouting staff period, they need to poach some veterans with a good track record to add to the group. They need more eyes and a slight change in philosophy. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be big and hard to play against but its gone overboard. Drafting small skill is worse frankly look at the leafs under dubas. Horrible drafters.

I get everyone is upset about the current prospect pool but the reason by far its this weak is trading 3 firsts a 2nds and 3 3rds over the last 3 years.

 

[GCK]

The 2021 draft was an absolute disaster, I wonder if other teams stopped paying their scouts during the COVID shutdown.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Post history does not check out.

Could not believe my eyes with that one

 

[bert]

Could not believe my eyes with that one

Its truly something else. All the reasons he doesnt like Yakemchuk were the same reasons he hated the Tkachuk pick. Its crazy that someone cant learn from their mistakes; but to not only double down on them but be arrogant about it all at the same time.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Its truly something else. All the reasons he doesnt like Yakemchuk were the same reasons he hated the Tkachuk pick. Its crazy that someone cant learn from their mistakes; but to not only double down on them but be arrogant about it all at the same time.

So you've graduated from petty personal attacks to outright slander.

NHL Entry Draft - 2018 Draft - Prospect Discussion (Poll added)

Dobson Zadina Hughes/Bouchard/Tkachuk/Wahlstrom I'm not against taking Zadina whatsoever, I'm just stating that it wouldn't/shouldn't be viewed as crazy or strange if he went in the 5-9 range. Whoa whoa you said we wouldn’t be taking Dobson at four. Has something changed

forums.hfboards.com

Care to apologize?

Could not believe my eyes with that one

Username checks out:

NHL Entry Draft - 2018 Draft - Prospect Discussion (Poll added)

Dobson Zadina Hughes/Bouchard/Tkachuk/Wahlstrom I'm not against taking Zadina whatsoever, I'm just stating that it wouldn't/shouldn't be viewed as crazy or strange if he went in the 5-9 range. Whoa whoa you said we wouldn’t be taking Dobson at four. Has something changed

forums.hfboards.com

 

[bert]

So you've graduated from petty personal attacks to outright slander.

NHL Entry Draft - 2018 Draft - Prospect Discussion (Poll added)

Dobson Zadina Hughes/Bouchard/Tkachuk/Wahlstrom I'm not against taking Zadina whatsoever, I'm just stating that it wouldn't/shouldn't be viewed as crazy or strange if he went in the 5-9 range. Whoa whoa you said we wouldn’t be taking Dobson at four. Has something changed

forums.hfboards.com

Care to apologize?

Apologize for what? I said the same reasons I didnt dispute who you wanted them to select. Tkachuk and Yakemchuk are big players with late birthdays that are still growing into their bodies, sloppy skaters that lack coordination but have the tools to improve on it like most big players do at this age. Yakemchuks technique and edge work is good he just has to get stronger and faster like Brady. You didnt like either of these players for those reasons. Am I wrong about that? Please show me.

I dont see how its a flex either that you liked Dobson, Tkachuk was still the right pick. I wanted Hughes who is debatably the best payer from the draft that doesnt mean that I think I know better or that Tkachuk is a bad pick or I would do it over. I wanted Buium this year that doesnt mean that Yakemchuk was a bad pick or that I am going to hate on the pick because my ego wanted someone else.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

By saying the last three years, you are including this year’s draft which was just 2 or 3 months ago. Unless you’re a clairvoyant, I’m not sure how anyone can predict the draft results with accuracy at this time. Even the 2023 summer draft would be a little premature.

I’m not trying to state it's been good, or making a broader statement about our drafting, but just pointing out the obvious flaw in your “logic”.

Okay well in several years we can say good or bad.

But all the people that said this years was good or don’t judge until 2-3 years later…also said the same in 2021. And 2022. It’s always the same.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Apologize for what? I said the same reasons I didnt dispute who you wanted them to select. Tkachuk and Yakemchuk are big players with late birthdays that are still growing into their bodies, sloppy skaters that lack coordination but have the tools to improve on it like most big players do at this age. Yakemchuks technique and edge work is good he just has to get stronger and faster like Brady. You didnt like either of these players for those reasons. Am I wrong about that? Please show me.

I dont see how its a flex either that you liked Dobson, Tkachuk was still the right pick. I wanted Hughes who is debatably the best payer from the draft that doesnt mean that I think I know better or that Tkachuk is a bad pick or I would do it over. I wanted Buium this year that doesnt mean that Yakemchuk was a bad pick or that I am going to hate on the pick because my ego wanted someone else.

You said my post history didn't bear out that I preferred Dobson in 2018 over Tkachuk, when a simple search would have shown that, which leads me to believe you didn't bother or just decided to lie.

Tkachuk was never as bad of a skater as Yakemchuk, not even close. He was a fine skater, and of course it should go without saying that skating is less important in projecting the success of a forward compared to a defenseman. There's very few elite level defensemen in the NHL that don't skate at a noticeably above-average level, but there's plenty of elite forwards that aren't high-end skaters. Taking a defenseman with bad skating top 10 is a decision with a terrible track record historically, and it's not a decision I would have made obviously.

It's not a flex that I liked Dobson in 2018, but I'm not exactly losing sleep over "being wrong" about Tkachuk by preferring him, as you love to keep pointing out. Trying to discredit my record by pointing to a single pick I got "wrong" by ending up with a 70-80P RD over a 70-80P power forward is the best you can do, well good luck with that.