2024 preseason (camp, media stuff)

[LadyStanley]

Barracuda camp will probably start soon

IIRC it's usually about 10 days after NHL camp (so next Monday).

 

[Hobocop]

Why are you surprised? Did he look great so far this prospect and preseason and indeservedly got cut?

Tbh I used to be a big Laroque fan but Im falling for Dickinson and Cagnoni all of a sudden.

Basically, I thought he looked like he was moving around a lot better than he was last season and thought they'd want a longer look at him.

I mean, look at all the guys that have been cut in this group: late-season AHL additions from last year, guys going back to junior, camp tryouts. And Gannon Laroque.

 

[TheBeard]

You have a point there. I believe they have a bigger vested interest in Sam. They’ll give him more games. That’s my thought.

While the experience is nice, absolutely nothing he does in the games he plays this preseason changes any evaluation the team has of him nor will it change the organization’s time line for his development.

 

[Alaskanice]

While the experience is nice, absolutely nothing he does in the games he plays this preseason changes any evaluation the team has of him nor will it change the organization’s time line for his development.

I can’t speak to that. I don’t know their plan for him. He did survive the first cuts. That’s all I know for a fact.

 

[Juxtaposer]

While the experience is nice, absolutely nothing he does in the games he plays this preseason changes any evaluation the team has of him nor will it change the organization’s time line for his development.

Yeah, who wants the best defense prospect in our system and only guy who could maybe be a top pairing defenseman to get as much time around NHLers as possible? Better to go play OHL pre-season games against 16 year olds instead.

Being around NHLers is the best way to drive home the things he needs to work on. Sending him to London when every other half-decent NHL prospect is still at an NHL camp is literally worthless. I'm so serious, what the f***.

 

[Hodge]

While the experience is nice, absolutely nothing he does in the games he plays this preseason changes any evaluation the team has of him nor will it change the organization’s time line for his development.

Why can't Dickinson earn a 9 game tryout?

 

[TheBeard]

Yeah, who wants the best defense prospect in our system and only guy who could maybe be a top pairing defenseman to get as much time around NHLers as possible? Better to go play OHL pre-season games against 16 year olds instead.

Being around NHLers is the best way to drive home the things he needs to work on. Sending him to London when every other half-decent NHL prospect is still at an NHL camp is literally worthless. I'm so serious, what the f***.

The extra week or so of rubbing elbows with the Cody Cecils of the world isn't going to make or break him. He's got AT LEAST two more of these camps and a demotion would be less about him and more about evaluation of the guys who have a shorter window in terms of evaluating whether or not they have futures. I have no issues with him remaining with the club but right now the things he should be working on have nothing to do with what he can learn from the vets. That'll come but the dude JUST turned 18. Let him physically develop for the year and give him the full camp next year.

 

[TheBeard]

Why can't Dickinson earn a 9 game tryout?

There is absolutely no reason for him to get a 9 game tryout other than to humble and embarrass him. It would be a 10% chance he thrives and a 90 chance he looks every bit the fish out of water. There's been a whopping 17 d-men who played in the NHL at 18 since the turn of the century.

 

[coooldude]

The extra week or so of rubbing elbows with the Cody Cecils of the world isn't going to make or break him. He's got AT LEAST two more of these camps and a demotion would be less about him and more about evaluation of the guys who have a shorter window in terms of evaluating whether or not they have futures. I have no issues with him remaining with the club but right now the things he should be working on have nothing to do with what he can learn from the vets. That'll come but the dude JUST turned 18. Let him physically develop for the year and give him the full camp next year.

Cody Ceci may suck in the NHL, but he's a career NHLer. 16 year olds in the London camp are not. Maximizing your top prospects' time for learning from NHL environments, even the league's worst team environment, is absolutely more important than evaluating less central prospects. Laroque goes to Cuda camp and they'll evaluate him there. Dickinson and Musty stay in the big camp learning and pushing and then get to go home where things are safer and they can both dominate and also try to get better at the things they learned about.

Everyone -- it's just one game! It's a wake up call, but it's just one preseason game.

 

[Hodge]

There is absolutely no reason for him to get a 9 game tryout other than to humble and embarrass him. It would be a 10% chance he thrives and a 90 chance he looks every bit the fish out of water. There's been a whopping 17 d-men who played in the NHL at 18 since the turn of the century.

The reason would be that he proves he's one of the 6 best defensemen in camp which isn't impossible with Shak and Vlasic injured and Benning having missed almost an entire season.

 

[LadyStanley]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1838015760951808123

 

[coooldude]

The reason would be that he proves he's one of the 6 best defensemen in camp which isn't impossible with Shak and Vlasic injured and Benning having missed almost an entire season.

I'll be honest, it's tough to square your fair criticism of Musty being not ready, with your willingness to consider Dickinson might be ready for 9 games. They both don't look ready. I'm not worried about either of them yet, and Dickinson is more important to the franchise, but I highly doubt he's ready for 9 games and given what we've seen of Musty so far I would be shocked if he gets 9 games. Best case for this year, probably, is they both end up back in London with Halttunen, Dickinson becomes their clear #1 and Musty learns to play responsibly within their structure, and Haltts rounds out a top line game. Worst case is they all go back to Jr but Musty goes back to Sudbury and has another offensively stunning year without actually progressing in the areas he needs to.

At this point, a very likely outcome: Dick is in the AHL next year but is still getting his feet under him, eventually and patiently developing into a 3/4... Halttunen gets AHL seasons but never really puts it all together for the show... and Musty is an up-and-down player in the NHL but doesn't really stick in a core anywhere and is highly frustrating... like a bigger Labanc. Obviously rooting for better than this.

 

[weastern bias]

Is Dickinson AHL eligible for the 2025-26 season? He turns 19 years old next June, I figured he'd still have to go back to major junior for next season as well, but I don't know all the intricacies of the transfer agreement

 

[Hodge]

I'll be honest, it's tough to square your fair criticism of Musty being not ready, with your willingness to consider Dickinson might be ready for 9 games. They both don't look ready. I'm not worried about either of them yet, and Dickinson is more important to the franchise, but I highly doubt he's ready for 9 games and given what we've seen of Musty so far I would be shocked if he gets 9 games. Best case for this year, probably, is they both end up back in London with Halttunen, Dickinson becomes their clear #1 and Musty learns to play responsibly within their structure, and Haltts rounds out a top line game. Worst case is they all go back to Jr but Musty goes back to Sudbury and has another offensively stunning year without actually progressing in the areas he needs to.

At this point, a very likely outcome: Dick is in the AHL next year but is still getting his feet under him, eventually and patiently developing into a 3/4... Halttunen gets AHL seasons but never really puts it all together for the show... and Musty is an up-and-down player in the NHL but doesn't really stick in a core anywhere and is highly frustrating... like a bigger Labanc. Obviously rooting for better than this.

Dickinson is a year younger than Musty, plays the most difficult skater position while Musty plays the easiest and has still looked better than Musty in each of the 3 rookie faceoff games and the preseason opener. Right now I don't think either player has earned a 9 game tryout but it's more likely that Dickinson will especially considering our surplus of forwards compared to our shallow and injury-riddled depth chart on defense.

I don't think Dickinson is eligible for the AHL next year which is another reason to give him some NHL seasoning this year and/or next so he knows what he needs to work on in junior.

 

[Cas]

Is Dickinson AHL eligible for the 2025-26 season? He turns 19 years old next June, I figured he'd still have to go back to major junior for next season as well, but I don't know all the intricacies of the transfer agreement

He will not be eligible, doesn't turn 20 until after the 25-26 season ends.

 

[gaucholoco3]

With the focus on developing the young players and not winning this season what harm is done by giving Musty and Dickinson 9 games. It would give them experience and more time with the NHL players and coaching staff. They could even alternate games to give them 2 months with the team if it is about the experience. It’s not going to happen but there is no harm in giving them 9 games this season.

 

[TheBeard]

The reason would be that he proves he's one of the 6 best defensemen in camp which isn't impossible with Shak and Vlasic injured and Benning having missed almost an entire season.

Forcing Dickinson to play because of his draft and pedigree is how you ruin a player. I am adamantly against it.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

With the focus on developing the young players and not winning this season what harm is done by giving Musty and Dickinson 9 games. It would give them experience and more time with the NHL players and coaching staff. They could even alternate games to give them 2 months with the team if it is about the experience. It’s not going to happen but there is no harm in giving them 9 games this season.

I don't think there is harm giving them the nine games but I also don't think there's harm done if they're sent back w/o the games. In Musty's case, it's the lack of the AHL option that makes it difficult for him as I don't think he'll learn much back in juniors but I don't see much of a choice.

 

[Juxtaposer]

The extra week or so of rubbing elbows with the Cody Cecils of the world isn't going to make or break him. He's got AT LEAST two more of these camps and a demotion would be less about him and more about evaluation of the guys who have a shorter window in terms of evaluating whether or not they have futures. I have no issues with him remaining with the club but right now the things he should be working on have nothing to do with what he can learn from the vets. That'll come but the dude JUST turned 18. Let him physically develop for the year and give him the full camp next year.

Literally no defenseman in this entire organization is more important than Sam Dickinson right now. But you think sending him to play pre-season games against 16 year old OHL tryouts instead of spending time around NHL players in an NHL training camp is the right call so we can, what, look at Artem Guryev, Ethan Frisch, Jimmy Schultz, Jake Furlong, Valterri Pulli, and Joey Keane? There are a dozen defensemen still in camp that will never sniff an NHL roster, but evaluating them at training camp is more important than evaluating and teaching our literal only meaningful defense prospect?

 

[TheBeard]

Literally no defenseman in this entire organization is more important than Sam Dickinson right now. But you think sending him to play pre-season games against 16 year old OHL tryouts instead of spending time around NHL players in an NHL training camp is the right call so we can, what, look at Artem Guryev, Ethan Frisch, Jimmy Schultz, Jake Furlong, Valterri Pulli, and Joey Keane? There are a dozen defensemen still in camp that will never sniff an NHL roster, but evaluating them at training camp is more important than evaluating and teaching our literal only meaningful defense prospect?

Right now Dickinson will and should not sniff the NHL for at least the next couple of seasons and the only reason he would is out of desperation. I liken it to a bad NFL forcing a rookie QB to start and then being shocked that the development doesn't happen (I'm looking at you Bryce Young). He's a key part of the future, but IMO right now is not his time. Again, he JUST turned 18. I don't expect him to be a regular in the line-up until he's 21-22. That's 4 years down the road. We are going to need other NHL defencemen regardless of how successful he is.

 

[TheBeard]

Dickinson is a year younger than Musty, plays the most difficult skater position while Musty plays the easiest and has still looked better than Musty in each of the 3 rookie faceoff games and the preseason opener. Right now I don't think either player has earned a 9 game tryout but it's more likely that Dickinson will especially considering our surplus of forwards compared to our shallow and injury-riddled depth chart on defense.

I don't think Dickinson is eligible for the AHL next year which is another reason to give him some NHL seasoning this year and/or next so he knows what he needs to work on in junior.

Dickinson didn't look great in the rookie tourney and, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't Musty have like 7 points? He didn't look as good as the points indicate, but he was far more impactful than Sam.

With the focus on developing the young players and not winning this season what harm is done by giving Musty and Dickinson 9 games. It would give them experience and more time with the NHL players and coaching staff. They could even alternate games to give them 2 months with the team if it is about the experience. It’s not going to happen but there is no harm in giving them 9 games this season.

So have them play 4 games a month just so they can rub shoulders with vets?

I'd rather they just go back to their respective clubs and work on the things that need to be worked on even against subpar competition. The on-ice learning never stops no matter who the competition.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Right now Dickinson will and should not sniff the NHL for at least the next couple of seasons and the only reason he would is out of desperation. I liken it to a bad NFL forcing a rookie QB to start and then being shocked that the development doesn't happen (I'm looking at you Bryce Young). He's a key part of the future, but IMO right now is not his time. Again, he JUST turned 18. I don't expect him to be a regular in the line-up until he's 21-22. That's 4 years down the road. We are going to need other NHL defencemen regardless of how successful he is.

The difference is that we are talking about preseason. Every single top QB drafted plays preseason. Preseason won’t ruin a prospect. Neither will 9 RS games. Jux is right that while Smith and Celebrini are better no prospect is more important to the Sharks success right now than Dickinson.

Bryce Young is a great college QB but should never have been the top overall pick. A sub 6’ non mobile pocket passer will get eaten alive in the NFL. The only successful QB that is that type is Drew Brees who had possibly the most accurate arm ever. Also he would struggle with the speed and size of today’s D Line.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Right now Dickinson will and should not sniff the NHL for at least the next couple of seasons and the only reason he would is out of desperation. I liken it to a bad NFL forcing a rookie QB to start and then being shocked that the development doesn't happen (I'm looking at you Bryce Young). He's a key part of the future, but IMO right now is not his time. Again, he JUST turned 18. I don't expect him to be a regular in the line-up until he's 21-22. That's 4 years down the road. We are going to need other NHL defencemen regardless of how successful he is.

Why are you acting like I'm suggesting he should be in the NHL this year? I said it's insane to want to cut him from NHL camp today, as you suggested. You're completely changing the goalposts to move away from your original claim that Dickinson should be cut from NHL camp today so we can prioritize evaluating other defensemen who will never sniff an NHL roster.