Patriots/NFL 2024 Playoffs Part 2: Pats have 3rd pick. Mayo new HC. Where does Belichick land? Bill O'Brien to leave Patriots for Ohio State OC job

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PeanutButter37

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Feb 20, 2015
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What I’ll mever understand is how people continue to hammer on BB?

Nope, he hasn‘t won a SB without Brady and his drafting has been bad recently, but, unless you’re delusional, Brady wasn’t winning 6 without him.

Now do they win 2, 3, 4, or 5 without him?

Who knows?

But to revel in seeing a guy, who, if you’re an actual Pats fan had a huge hand in bringing you an unprecedented run of success is just petty and silly, IMO.

There's a difference between hammering BB the coach and BB the GM. I wanted BB out after this season, not because of his inability to coach the team, but because this is an important offseason and BB the GM has continuously hindered BB the coach.

BB the HC is still widely considered the best to do it. BB the GM is decidedly _not_ the best to do it and I do not want him making the pick at 3OA and spending all the cap space they have available.
 

Johnnyduke

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Don't have a problem with Covington as DC, but I can't say I totally understand passing over Steve Belichick when he's basically been co-DC for 4(?) years of a defense that's been pretty competitive.
All the reporting has been how close Mayo and Steve are so this doesn't make a lot of sense unless Steve wants to try and land a job somewhere else. Maybe he's waiting it out with his dad but long-term there has to be a spot for Steve Belichick in this league in some capacity. He hasn't come across as the toolbag Matt Patricia is.


Well it looks like our options are McDaniels and Nick Caley? Barf.
 

Johnnyduke

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Has there been any chatter about underlings from the remaining playoff teams? Tee Martin in Baltimore? Played at Tennessee like Mayo!
 

red devil

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Has there been any chatter about underlings from the remaining playoff teams? Tee Martin in Baltimore? Played at Tennessee like Mayo!
I haven't seen his name on any lists as of yet. The most extensive list I've seen is from this morning and now Robinson is off the board

 

CDJ

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If they plan on picking Daniels go with Jerrod Johnson or Tanner Engstrand

I do appreciate Caley being familiar with McVay’s scheme too
 

KrejciMVP

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No, but if you're expecting to be considered the GOAT, you can't only have won games with one quarterback. Guys like Reid have roughly the same winning percentages whether it was Mahomes, McNabb, or Alex Smith. Bill's winning percentage with Brady is like 64%. Without Brady he's got a losing record. You don't think that massive swing says something?

but isnt turnover at qb a bad sign
 

Mr. Make-Believe

The happy genius of my household
No, but if you're expecting to be considered the GOAT, you can't only have won games with one quarterback. Guys like Reid have roughly the same winning percentages whether it was Mahomes, McNabb, or Alex Smith. Bill's winning percentage with Brady is like 64%. Without Brady he's got a losing record. You don't think that massive swing says something?
I always feel the need to clarify that my opinion comes from a neutral fan’s perspective. So I am not being a homer when I suggest that eight rings kind of cinches the deal - one quarterback or not. Dude is the GOAT.

I think you’re pointing out the chasm in-between Brady and every other QB he’s had as a head coach. Andy Reid could win games with Alex Smith. Well, if Belichick had Alex Smith, I’d bet he could have won with him too. Mac Jones is no Alex Smith.
 

EvilDead

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What I’ll mever understand is how people continue to hammer on BB?

Nope, he hasn‘t won a SB without Brady and his drafting has been bad recently, but, unless you’re delusional, Brady wasn’t winning 6 without him.

Now do they win 2, 3, 4, or 5 without him?

Who knows?

But to revel in seeing a guy, who, if you’re an actual Pats fan had a huge hand in bringing you an unprecedented run of success is just petty and silly, IMO.

I don't think everyone who is critical of Bill is reveling in seeing him fail, but rather that there was vindication in seeing Bill being brought back down to earth ego wise after forcing Brady out. Bill is a very good coach and a hall of famer. However, the success he had with Tom Brady in spite of his poor job as Patriots GM, the brain drain in Foxboro, and recent rule changes for how offseasons are conducted caused him to be rather delusional and lie to himself about how things really were without Tom. He lied to himself that the team could still be a contender with any given quarterback, and when the Krafts pushed back on him, he decided to undermine himself rather than swallow his pride and listen to the criticism of how he was running things.
 

EvilDead

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You just always ignore the great defenses put together for that Brady era.

In the first half of the dynasty, yes the defenses were absolutely a key part of the Patriots success with Bill and Brady. It should also be noted that the core of players for the defense on those teams were not picked by Bill Belichick. Tedy Bruschi, Willie McGinnest, Ty Law, Ted Johnson, Lawyer Malloy, and to a far lesser extent Tebucky Jones were all here before Bill was the head coach and were a solid defensive unit to boot. Did Bill build upon the foundation that was there and improve it? Absolutely. Free agents like Roman Phifer, Bryan Cox, Ted Washington, Mike Vrabel, Roosevelt Colvin, Rodney Harrison, and Otis Smith alongside draftees like Vince Wilfork, Richard Seymour, and Asante Samuel absolutely played a part in making the Patriots a defensive force. But the core players were already there.

Furthermore, in between the championship runs the team had, there was a stretch where the Patriots defense was put together with bubblegum, sticks, and twine. Outside of Wilfork, McCourtey, Mayo, and Chung the team had a patchwork front seven that could get zero pressure on the quarterback and demanded a lot of their defensive backs to do the heavy lifting to make stops. And all those defensive units were the achilles heel of the Patriots while the team leaned on Brady to pull out a victory from the jaws of defeat.
 
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DKH

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98.5 says look like Nick Kaley & Demarcus Covington

Going young

Kaley no OC experience but was with McVay and highly regarded when here

I don't think everyone who is critical of Bill is reveling in seeing him fail, but rather that there was vindication in seeing Bill being brought back down to earth ego wise after forcing Brady out. Bill is a very good coach and a hall of famer. However, the success he had with Tom Brady in spite of his poor job as Patriots GM, the brain drain in Foxboro, and recent rule changes for how offseasons are conducted caused him to be rather delusional and lie to himself about how things really were without Tom. He lied to himself that the team could still be a contender with any given quarterback, and when the Krafts pushed back on him, he decided to undermine himself rather than swallow his pride and listen to the criticism of how he was running things.
Bang on

He’s got no one to blame for self not being with Patriots then himself
 
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Johnnyduke

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In theory you're only gonna pry a guy away who doesn't have OC experience. The question is are you able to attract the right guy? Just as an example I would have preferred someone like Zac Robinson over Caley. Nick Caley seems like your absolute last resort.
 

CDJ

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They should’ve hired Caley for the position 2 years ago and we wouldn’t have to worry about his lack of experience. Bill had to piss him off and pass him over for his defensive coordinator buddy though
 
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KrejciMVP

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I don't think everyone who is critical of Bill is reveling in seeing him fail, but rather that there was vindication in seeing Bill being brought back down to earth ego wise after forcing Brady out. Bill is a very good coach and a hall of famer. However, the success he had with Tom Brady in spite of his poor job as Patriots GM, the brain drain in Foxboro, and recent rule changes for how offseasons are conducted caused him to be rather delusional and lie to himself about how things really were without Tom. He lied to himself that the team could still be a contender with any given quarterback, and when the Krafts pushed back on him, he decided to undermine himself rather than swallow his pride and listen to the criticism of how he was running things.

interesting how all the players like Vareen White Woodhead Blount Edelman amendola Welker Moss etc are all ignored
 

CDJ

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Rams assistant ST coach Jeremy Springer getting a 2nd interview for the ST gig along with Caley getting his 2nd interview for the OC gig. Dinner tonight, interviews tomorrow (per Breer)

 
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LSCII

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but isnt turnover at qb a bad sign
No, it's an eventuality in a league like this and a sport as physical as football is. Only being successful when you have all world talent is a net negative if you're being honest with yourself.

It's funny how people called Brady a system quarterback yet that "system" only has success when he's running it. Seems like the truth is he was the system.
 

LSCII

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I always feel the need to clarify that my opinion comes from a neutral fan’s perspective. So I am not being a homer when I suggest that eight rings kind of cinches the deal - one quarterback or not. Dude is the GOAT.

I think you’re pointing out the chasm in-between Brady and every other QB he’s had as a head coach. Andy Reid could win games with Alex Smith. Well, if Belichick had Alex Smith, I’d bet he could have won with him too. Mac Jones is no Alex Smith.
You bring up an fair point and I value the detached view from a non Pats fan more so than the too close to the situation Pats fans take, TBH. I think the most interesting part of your post is when you brought up how Bill has 8 rings, and it's true. I don't know if you brought that up to foster more conversation or if it was just a statement of fact on your end, but it's something that shouldn't be glossed over.

Now when you dig into it, the most obvious factor about his SB wins in NE is that he had Brady. And when you look at the SB wins he had as a coordinator for the Giants, he definitely did not have Brady. But, and you had to know a but was coming, he did have what is considered to be the most dominant defensive player in the league's history in Lawrence Taylor running his schemes for him. So I tend to file those away and stand by my statements that it's really easy to win if you have the absolute best players. The greatest of the great though, they find a way when those guys aren't on the roster. And honestly, that's something Bill has not done. When he doesn't have the best of the best, he's got a losing record and that's a factual knock on him.

It's like Phil Jackon having Jordan and Pippen and winning a boatload of titles, and then having Shaq and Kobe and winning a boatload of titles. But when he was running the Knicks and he didn't have those types of all time great players, he sucked.
 
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