Patriots/NFL 2024 Off Season: Free Agency, Draft Part II

[SwayHeyKid]

Can't you see it, Mike?

The return of Tom Brady without Bill?!

Get the duck boats ready!!!

No point. He has already won without Bill

Mac Jones was a better college player than JJ McCarthy. If they take McCarthy they have learned nothing.

If you’re going to surround the offense with garbage your only chance is to take the high upside player and hope his talent carries the team.

The reality is they would both probably suck on this team, but at least Drake Maye gives you a chance.

Patriots have the worst skill position player collection in the NFL (or close). No matter who they draft the kid is going to have a hard time at first. I like Maye better as well.

 

[CDJ]

Mac Jones was a better college player than JJ McCarthy. If they take McCarthy they have learned nothing.

If you’re going to surround the offense with garbage your only chance is to take the high upside player and hope his talent carries the team.

The reality is they would both probably suck on this team, but at least Drake Maye gives you a chance.

Mac was also throwing to 2 first round pick WR and Metchie. McCarthy is more tooled up

It’s still Maye way over McCarthy for me

 

[GatorMike]

Mac Jones was a better college player than JJ McCarthy. If they take McCarthy they have learned nothing.

If you’re going to surround the offense with garbage your only chance is to take the high upside player and hope his talent carries the team.

The reality is they would both probably suck on this team, but at least Drake Maye gives you a chance.

Tim Tebow was a better college player than Tom Brady.

Swear to God, Patriots fans have Mac Jones PTSD. Every white QB that's not 6-5 with a rocket arm or doesn't run a sub 4.5 40 is Mac Jones.

 

[EverettMike]

Tim Tebow was a better college player than Tom Brady.

Swear to God, Patriots fans have Mac Jones PTSD. Every white QB that's not 6-5 with a rocket arm or doesn't run a sub 4.5 40 is Mac Jones.

Brandt really likes him, but perfectly explains why taking him high is insane.



Solak also gets into the tape on the major issues with McCarthy.

 

[PatriceBergeron]

Tim Tebow was a better college player than Tom Brady.

Swear to God, Patriots fans have Mac Jones PTSD. Every white QB that's not 6-5 with a rocket arm or doesn't run a sub 4.5 40 is Mac Jones.

I’m a Mac Jones apologist. I think he never got a chance with the coaching and talent around him. JJ McCarthy is the same type of “leadership, intangibles, winner” guy who got carried by an absolutely stacked college team. That is never going to work with the talent on this Patriots team.

Taking Drake Maye and hoping his natural arm talent can develop into a Josh Allen/Justin Herbert level player is their best chance to be relevant any time soon. If it’s not Maye I’d rather just trade down.

 

[DKH]

I will vomit If the patriots take JJ McCarthy

wait till his press conference and he discusses his mental health issues and battles with depression

This area coming in as savior good luck with that

Going from a team he was a game manager ahead 99 % of time to this offensive shit storm

Don’t believe me - the Andrew Callahan podcast I think it was I’ve listened to so many - cited admirable he’s able to overcome it but a GM/Dir of Pro Scouting said we would not go there

This could be catastrophic if they draft him

 

[GatorMike]

Brandt really likes him, but perfectly explains why taking him high is insane.



Solak also gets into the tape on the major issues with McCarthy.

I like Kyle Brandt as an analyst. I hate his analysis here, though. There have been lots of NFL quarterbacks whose "tangibles" could best be described as "good enough", but whose intangibles make them really successful. That's kind of how I view McCarthy. Size, athleticism, and arm talent are NFL caliber, but not quite elite. His "soft" skills - leadership, toughness, decision making, are all somewhere between really good and off the charts.

And the other thing to remember here is that McCarthy just turned 21 years of age. At that age, guys like Mac Jones and Joe Burrow were still college backups. Jayden Daniels wasn't on anyone's draft radar when he was 20. I think McCarthy still has some room to develop physically, and when he does, that'll make those longer throws that Solak highlighted a little easier for him. (Note that while I like Solak as well, he showed at least one throw that McCarthy would never have to make in the NFL due to the narrower hashmarks.)

JJ McCarthy is the same type of “leadership, intangibles, winner” guy who got carried by an absolutely stacked college team. That is never going to work with the talent on this Patriots team.

Yeah, let's talk about this for a minute.

This is who Mac Jones played with at Alabama:

WR - Jaylen Waddle (6th overall, Miami)
WR - DeVontae Smith (10th overall, Philadelphia)
OL - Alex Leatherwood (17th overall, Las Vegas)
RB - Najee Harris (24th overall, Pittsburgh)
OL - Landon Dickerson (37th overall, Philadelphia)
OL - Deonte Brown (193rd overall, Carolina)

...and Alabama had four more offensive players picked in the Top 100 in 2022, including two more in the top 12. Mac Jones literally played on an offense with six future first round picks. The 2024 draft obviously hasn't happened yet, but this is where the offensive players on Michigan rank on 2024 Consensus Big Board:

WR - Roman Wilson (48th overall)
RB - Blake Corum (72nd overall)
OL - Zak Zinter (102nd overall)
TE - AJ Barner (156th overall)
WR - Cornelius Johnson (183rd overall)
OL - Trevor Keegan (199th overall)
OL - Drake Nugent (22nd overall)
OL - Karsen Barnhart (282nd overall)
OL - Trente Jones (326th overall)

At the moment, Michigan has one offensive player ranked 56th overall in the 2025 Consensus Big Board. We are not talking about the same level of "stacked" when we compare who JJ McCarthy played with vs. who Mac Jones played with.

And even if they did play with comparable talent, McCarthy has far more arm talent, and way more athleticism than Jones does. It's a lazy comparison.

Besides... I want whoever the Patriots pick at #3 overall to be the quarterback here for the next decade plus. I'm not worried about whether they're going to work with the offensive talent that's currently on the team, because that talent will change in the coming years.

Again... I would probably lean Maye over McCarthy. I just understand why a team like the Patriots might really like McCarthy.

 

[DKH]

I like Kyle Brandt as an analyst. I hate his analysis here, though. There have been lots of NFL quarterbacks whose "tangibles" could best be described as "good enough", but whose intangibles make them really successful. That's kind of how I view McCarthy. Size, athleticism, and arm talent are NFL caliber, but not quite elite. His "soft" skills - leadership, toughness, decision making, are all somewhere between really good and off the charts.

And the other thing to remember here is that McCarthy just turned 21 years of age. At that age, guys like Mac Jones and Joe Burrow were still college backups. Jayden Daniels wasn't on anyone's draft radar when he was 20. I think McCarthy still has some room to develop physically, and when he does, that'll make those longer throws that Solak highlighted a little easier for him. (Note that while I like Solak as well, he showed at least one throw that McCarthy would never have to make in the NFL due to the narrower hashmarks.)


Yeah, let's talk about this for a minute.

This is who Mac Jones played with at Alabama:

WR - Jaylen Waddle (6th overall, Miami)
WR - DeVontae Smith (10th overall, Philadelphia)
OL - Alex Leatherwood (17th overall, Las Vegas)
RB - Najee Harris (24th overall, Pittsburgh)
OL - Landon Dickerson (37th overall, Philadelphia)
OL - Deonte Brown (193rd overall, Carolina)

...and Alabama had four more offensive players picked in the Top 100 in 2022, including two more in the top 12. Mac Jones literally played on an offense with six future first round picks. The 2024 draft obviously hasn't happened yet, but this is where the offensive players on Michigan rank on 2024 Consensus Big Board:

WR - Roman Wilson (48th overall)
RB - Blake Corum (72nd overall)
OL - Zak Zinter (102nd overall)
TE - AJ Barner (156th overall)
WR - Cornelius Johnson (183rd overall)
OL - Trevor Keegan (199th overall)
OL - Drake Nugent (22nd overall)
OL - Karsen Barnhart (282nd overall)
OL - Trente Jones (326th overall)

At the moment, Michigan has one offensive player ranked 56th overall in the 2025 Consensus Big Board. We are not talking about the same level of "stacked" when we compare who JJ McCarthy played with vs. who Mac Jones played with.

And even if they did play with comparable talent, McCarthy has far more arm talent, and way more athleticism than Jones does. It's a lazy comparison.

Besides... I want whoever the Patriots pick at #3 overall to be the quarterback here for the next decade plus. I'm not worried about whether they're going to work with the offensive talent that's currently on the team, because that talent will change in the coming years.

Again... I would probably lean Maye over McCarthy. I just understand why a team like the Patriots might really like McCarthy.

I hope you are right about JJ

 

[McGarnagle]

Nice to see Juju Smith-Shuster putting in work on his short post this offseason

 

[Mione134]

Nice to see Juju Smith-Shuster putting in work on his short post this offseason

 

[KOZ37]

I like Kyle Brandt as an analyst. I hate his analysis here, though. There have been lots of NFL quarterbacks whose "tangibles" could best be described as "good enough", but whose intangibles make them really successful. That's kind of how I view McCarthy. Size, athleticism, and arm talent are NFL caliber, but not quite elite. His "soft" skills - leadership, toughness, decision making, are all somewhere between really good and off the charts.

And the other thing to remember here is that McCarthy just turned 21 years of age. At that age, guys like Mac Jones and Joe Burrow were still college backups. Jayden Daniels wasn't on anyone's draft radar when he was 20. I think McCarthy still has some room to develop physically, and when he does, that'll make those longer throws that Solak highlighted a little easier for him. (Note that while I like Solak as well, he showed at least one throw that McCarthy would never have to make in the NFL due to the narrower hashmarks.)


Yeah, let's talk about this for a minute.

This is who Mac Jones played with at Alabama:

WR - Jaylen Waddle (6th overall, Miami)
WR - DeVontae Smith (10th overall, Philadelphia)
OL - Alex Leatherwood (17th overall, Las Vegas)
RB - Najee Harris (24th overall, Pittsburgh)
OL - Landon Dickerson (37th overall, Philadelphia)
OL - Deonte Brown (193rd overall, Carolina)

...and Alabama had four more offensive players picked in the Top 100 in 2022, including two more in the top 12. Mac Jones literally played on an offense with six future first round picks. The 2024 draft obviously hasn't happened yet, but this is where the offensive players on Michigan rank on 2024 Consensus Big Board:

WR - Roman Wilson (48th overall)
RB - Blake Corum (72nd overall)
OL - Zak Zinter (102nd overall)
TE - AJ Barner (156th overall)
WR - Cornelius Johnson (183rd overall)
OL - Trevor Keegan (199th overall)
OL - Drake Nugent (22nd overall)
OL - Karsen Barnhart (282nd overall)
OL - Trente Jones (326th overall)

At the moment, Michigan has one offensive player ranked 56th overall in the 2025 Consensus Big Board. We are not talking about the same level of "stacked" when we compare who JJ McCarthy played with vs. who Mac Jones played with.

And even if they did play with comparable talent, McCarthy has far more arm talent, and way more athleticism than Jones does. It's a lazy comparison.

Besides... I want whoever the Patriots pick at #3 overall to be the quarterback here for the next decade plus. I'm not worried about whether they're going to work with the offensive talent that's currently on the team, because that talent will change in the coming years.

Again... I would probably lean Maye over McCarthy. I just understand why a team like the Patriots might really like McCarthy.

Mac certainly had a lot of talent to work with. The difference is Mac was a much larger part of the success and he was not shielded. He was allowed to throw and make plays and did so in a very big way. If JJ is the best QB as Harbaugh states, you trust him to throw and make plays. He was considered a borderline 1st round pick before the combine and pro day workouts. I can't imagine workouts with no pads, or defense have vaulted anyone up to 3rd in the draft.

I also don't understand how Penix running a 4.5 40 changes anything for him all of the sudden. It's nice he is fast, but it doesn't change the fact he is not a running QB so why does it matter. for the record I wouldn't care how fast he is if he can sling it....and he can. Team executives are no better than most of us sometimes. They change their minds and talk themselves into players for reasons that have nothing to do with the body of work. I would much rather trade back with the Giants at 6 rather than draft someone they are not sure of. At least at 6 you are guaranteed either a top WR or Alt. I personally don't think any of these QBs are a sure thing, but would at least be excited about what Daniels or Maye could bring eventually. Less excited about JJ but I could be wrong just like everyone else. This includes the draft analysts/ experts btw.....go back and look and see what they said in previous years. They are wrong quite a lot just like the rest of us........sorry if this turned into a rant!

 

[N o o d l e s]

Nice to see Juju Smith-Shuster putting in work on his short post this offseason

Balls to the wall. Nice to see

 

[DNE3]

I also don't understand how Penix running a 4.5 40 changes anything for him all of the sudden. It's nice he is fast, but it doesn't change the fact he is not a running QB so why does it matter. for the record I wouldn't care how fast he is if he can sling it....and he can. Team executives are no better than most of us sometimes. They change their minds and talk themselves into players for reasons that have nothing to do with the body of work. I would much rather trade back with the Giants at 6 rather than draft someone they are not sure of. At least at 6 you are guaranteed either a top WR or Alt. I personally don't think any of these QBs are a sure thing, but would at least be excited about what Daniels or Maye could bring eventually. Less excited about JJ but I could be wrong just like everyone else. This includes the draft analysts/ experts btw.....go back and look and see what they said in previous years. They are wrong quite a lot just like the rest of us........sorry if this turned into a rant!

One of the better rants of late. Penix Jr. workout 4.5 means - to me - leg injury concerns were overblown. And I prefer the fast Penix Jr., not the slow. I would trade out with Giants in heartbeat, draft franchise tackle Alt, turn out lights, back to hotel and prepare for day two. Chicago on the hook with Caleb Williams; don't care about 'sure thing' tag, bust always lurking. Expect positive draft result if owner Kraft not allowed to influence decision-makers.

 

[yazmybaby]

One of the better rants of late. Penix Jr. workout 4.5 means - to me - leg injury concerns were overblown. And I prefer the fast Penix Jr., not the slow. I would trade out with Giants in heartbeat, draft franchise tackle Alt, turn out lights, back to hotel and prepare for day two. Chicago on the hook with Caleb Williams; don't care about 'sure thing' tag, bust always lurking. Expect positive draft result if owner Kraft not allowed to influence decision-makers.

If the NYG want to move up 3 spots, its going to cost them two first rounders this year, they only have one.

Not interested in a 2025 first rounder as this draft has way more talent on O line and WR / QB's.
Pass

 

[DNE3]

If the NYG want to move up 3 spots, its going to cost them two first rounders this year, they only have one. Not interested in a 2025 first rounder as this draft has way more talent on O line and WR / QB's.
Pass

Good opinion. I pass on rookie quarterback who won't play this year on bad team. But I understand the temptation to go that direction.

 

[KOZ37]

If the NYG want to move up 3 spots, its going to cost them two first rounders this year, they only have one.

Not interested in a 2025 first rounder as this draft has way more talent on O line and WR / QB's.
Pass

I understand where you are coming from for sure. I will say we can't really know how those positions will look come draft time next year, although I had heard next year would at least be good for WR. If we could get the Giants to give a first next year I would not be opposed as I think they will be terrible again. If we can give maybe a 1 and a 4 this year for their 1st and 2nd this year, and a first next year I am listening. If a team is desperate for a QB they will overpay for that position more than any other. If Washington isn't trading out, the Pats pick has a ton of value for teams that want to choose between Maye and JJ.

That being said, I still do not want JJ. Last 6 games of the year Michigan played their only 5 ranked opponents ( I included Maryland as they were at least decent). JJ averaged 142 yards per game and totalled 4 TD and 1 Isn't in those games ( 3 of the TD were against Alabama where he had his best game of 221 passing yards). He did not throw for more than 148 yards in any of those other 6 games and had zero TD passes in 4 of them. He beat up on bad teams for 18 of his 22 TD passes.

At the end of the day he is seen as a "winner", but the people on that Michigan team who should be drafted higher are the OL, defensive players and Corum. Would love to hear more about them as " winners". QB gets the glory though I guess. If they draft him I will hope I am wrong and cheer for him to play well. I don't think he would be playable for a year or two at least though. Might be the same for Maye but I see a higher upside. Either way neither should play next year and being they are both younger at 21, I would hope we would still see a lot of growth and improvements in their games. Any way you shake it the draft is going to be interesting without Bill here. We always kinda knew what Bill would do.....

 

[CDJ]

Wolf’s dad/the packers have always been loud tools guys, I think they pick Maye over JJ

 

[GatorMike]

After ignoring him throughout much of the draft process, the Patriots have finally acknowledged the existence of Michael Penix.

 

[DKH]

I am not ready to hear J.J. McCarthy with the third pick

Gotta be a smoke screen

 

[Bruinswillwin77]

Sure I'd be excited if we had the 12th pick and got Penix, thanks but no thanks at #3.

 

[CDJ]

After ignoring him throughout much of the draft process, the Patriots have finally acknowledged the existence of Michael Penix.

They do have his old offensive quality control coach on staff so I think they had a ton of info on him already (as well as the WR at Washington)

I like him in the 2nd/late 1st more than I like JJ at 3

 

[McGarnagle]

Patriots management told the wide receivers that they want to take a look at Penix, but Juju misheard the phone call.

 

[Mione134]

Sure I'd be excited if we had the 12th pick and got Penix, thanks but no thanks at #3.

Same if we drafted JJ at 12.

Definitely not at 3 to either of them.

And I'm not confident on the top QB's. But you can't reach on a pick like that.

 

[IveGotToBeMe]

Is there any way the Patriots can use the "conduct unbecoming of a Patriot" excuse to get out of that contract...oh, wait that won't fly with the whole...er, massage parlor thing...damn

 

[GatorMike]

For what it's worth, I just watched Adam Schefter on ESPN suggest that the Patriots might be a little more open to a trade at #3 than many believe. He says they're definitely receiving calls.