Mighty Makar
I hate this fu*ken team
- May 24, 2016
- 15,206
- 16,827
Are the Islanders going to buy out Pageau? Would he be a decent 3C for $2M or is he done?
GDT: 2024 NHL Entry Draft
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AvsCOL
Registered User
- Jul 16, 2013
- 4,930
- 5,323
Some pretty weak picks once again. Loved the Nabokov move, but the rest of those were ranked well below their draft spots…
Good chance this was another useless draft.
GirardSpinorama
Registered User
- Aug 20, 2004
- 21,783
- 10,777
Schmidt feels like an Avs target to me. Lost a step but can still be a 5D. There was a time where I thought him and Provorov were the two most underrated defenders at stopping a full speed Mackinnon
McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
- Sep 29, 2015
- 14,480
- 12,750
This, but also rankings after the first 75 or so picks are 100% meaningless. After that it's just all about preferences and who has a couple qualities you like and think you can nurture. Draft lists between individual scouts will vary so widely that it's not even worth comparing them.
Perratrooper
Registered User
It’s difficult to like this draft for what it is currently. Hopefully they hit on one of the goalies and at least get some sort of fourth liner out of the late picks, but it’s hard not to get 2012 draft vibes.
- Aug 25, 2006
- 9,745
- 8,003
I don't know why most of you are so negative about this draft. Well I guess this is HFAvs.
IMO considering what the Avs had to work with as far as picks are concerned I think they did rather well. They traded down to get more picks and most importantly a 2nd Rnd pick that they will be able to use at the TDL.
Most people always complain that they don't draft goalies high enough...well not only they did this time around but they also picked the first goalie and arguably the best one as well. Furthermore he is pretty well NHL ready and could maybe join the Avs by the end of this season.
People also complain they don't take chances with guys that have skills...well they did with Zellers. He is more of a boom or bust type but at least they are trying to find value in the later rounds which is what people wanted.
Most of their picks were ranked better than the Avs got them at so that is really good value. Humphries and Curran are good example. I am actually quite high on Curran. The kid has size, is a playmaker, very good skater, and is pretty good defensively. People don't seem to realize that he had 32 pts in only 40 games this past season due to an injury and he did that in his FIRST NA and WHL season and at the very young age of 17. He was one of the youngest player in the draft this year. The kid has potential.
If Humphries can improve his skating a bit he could turn out to be a steal in the 7th round. He was ranked way higher than that.
Pitner is another one that was ranked quite a bit higher than he was picked. The consensus on him is that he is very good defensively but dropped due to lack of offense. I have also read that this lack of offense is mostly because he is himself playing too safe. The Avs is the perfect team to tap into this hidden offense as they love their Dmen to get involved on offense. If he can get confidence in his offense he could become a really good defensive Dman for us
I have heard really good things about Yunin as well. I can't recalled which scouting site it was but they were saying that he wasn't scouted very much because of lack of games played but they think he would be going a lot higher next draft if he had gone undrafted this year. They see a lot of potential in him.
I might be too optimistic be I give them a B+ for effort at least.
IMO considering what the Avs had to work with as far as picks are concerned I think they did rather well. They traded down to get more picks and most importantly a 2nd Rnd pick that they will be able to use at the TDL.
Most people always complain that they don't draft goalies high enough...well not only they did this time around but they also picked the first goalie and arguably the best one as well. Furthermore he is pretty well NHL ready and could maybe join the Avs by the end of this season.
People also complain they don't take chances with guys that have skills...well they did with Zellers. He is more of a boom or bust type but at least they are trying to find value in the later rounds which is what people wanted.
Most of their picks were ranked better than the Avs got them at so that is really good value. Humphries and Curran are good example. I am actually quite high on Curran. The kid has size, is a playmaker, very good skater, and is pretty good defensively. People don't seem to realize that he had 32 pts in only 40 games this past season due to an injury and he did that in his FIRST NA and WHL season and at the very young age of 17. He was one of the youngest player in the draft this year. The kid has potential.
If Humphries can improve his skating a bit he could turn out to be a steal in the 7th round. He was ranked way higher than that.
Pitner is another one that was ranked quite a bit higher than he was picked. The consensus on him is that he is very good defensively but dropped due to lack of offense. I have also read that this lack of offense is mostly because he is himself playing too safe. The Avs is the perfect team to tap into this hidden offense as they love their Dmen to get involved on offense. If he can get confidence in his offense he could become a really good defensive Dman for us
I have heard really good things about Yunin as well. I can't recalled which scouting site it was but they were saying that he wasn't scouted very much because of lack of games played but they think he would be going a lot higher next draft if he had gone undrafted this year. They see a lot of potential in him.
I might be too optimistic be I give them a B+ for effort at least.
Perratrooper
Registered User
It’s hard to be optimistic about Avs drafts as they consistently draft poorly. They passed up on players that were ranked higher by consensus in the earlier rounds, drafted a player that was in his fourth year of draft eligibility with their highest pick and while some of their later picks are interesting, they’re still late picks.
dahrougem2
Registered User
We'll be negative every year until some prospects start actually turning out. We were on the topic of Ryan Murray in the other thread and I accidentally clicked on the Jackets HockeyDB page. Since Murray has been drafted here's a list of players that organization has drafted with 200+ games played:
Ryan Murray
Joonas Korpisalo
Josh Anderson
Alexander Wennberg
Oliver Bjorkstrand
Sonny Milano
Elvis Merzlikins (next year)
Zach Werenski
Kevin Stenlund
Keegan Kolesar
Vladislav Gavrikov
Markus Nutivaara
Pierre-Luc Dubois
Andrew Peeke
Alexandre Texier
Emil Bemstrom
Cole Sillinger
And guys on track include Kirill Marchenko, Dmitry Voronkov, Yegor Chinakov, and Kent Johnson.
In that same timeframe, here's the Avs list:
Nathan MacKinnon
Will Butcher
Mikko Rantanen
Tyson Jost
Cale Makar
Alex Newhook
And guys on track include Bowen Byram and Nils Aman.
We as fans have a right to be negative about this team's scouting. It's pathetic. It's embarrassing. It needs a complete overhaul. Until proven otherwise, I think a lot of fans will be extremely negative about most draft picks.
GirardSpinorama
Registered User
- Aug 20, 2004
- 21,783
- 10,777
Meh, at least we know hes good at a competitive hockey league. Anyone we draft from out of nowhere, US HS prep or USHL or Czech or random NCAA team usually turns out not to be even AHL caliber.
Not just lack NHL games. Theres sooo many draft picks that dont even end up deserving ELCs. Almost like half of them dont even make it into the system. A nate clurman is a relative success. Will butcher is like generational success.
I guarantee i would have better drafting than the Avs over the last 12 years picking the highest PPG player in the CHLer at every non top 10 draft spit.
- Aug 25, 2006
- 9,745
- 8,003
IMO there are signs that drafting is getting better and it seems they are trying to address the issue by hiring Harris(?). I get that people will remain skeptical until proven otherwise.but I prefer to be optimistic.
henchman21
Mr. Meeseeks
- Feb 24, 2012
- 66,904
- 53,239
My general thoughts on the drafted players:
Nabokov - Very clearly a need and targeted pick. The Avs know they need a goalie and know they probably need one soon. Nabokov will likely be over in 25-26 and a good chance that is in competition for a NHL role. His game isn't that dissimilar to George. Smaller goalie who relies on his legs a lot. His positioning is pretty good and he's a goalie who will challenge shots a lot. He can get off on his reads and he has a tendency to play really low and wide. That's been worked on, but he will likely have to play more upright in the NHL. His blocker is especially weak by NHL standards. IMO there is a decent chance here he's a NHL goalie for a while. Probably more a backup than starter, but if he can clean up some technique... not outside the realm of possibility he's a starter. Don't think he will ever be high end. Pure guess, he was the target for the top pick all along.
Zellers - I'm fairly meh on him. He's not terrible, but I worry about his projection. He's got two calling cards IMO... he's really smart. His IQ and abilities to find spots is pretty great. He's also got a nifty little release. His shot isn't overly powerful or accurate, but his release is tricky. It confuses goalies quite often and beats. He's a meh skater with a low end motor. The motor will have to chance to have any NHL shot as he's not skilled enough to get to the NHL on his own there. If he's a NHLer it'll come as a complementary, offensively tilted middle 6 winger.
Fisher - Another need pick here. He has the size, IQ and skating to succeed at center. He was one of the best Minnesota high school player in his first draft year, but teams were scared about his skill level and translating up. Which was correct. There isn't much skill here and that may keep him from a bigger role in the NHL. His calling card is going to have to be a bottom line, PK, north-south player with a good shot that surprises goalies (it is quite good and his one time is one of the best in the USHL). He's very projectable, but no real upside. Either a 3rd line AHLer who or 4th line NHL who probably doesn't stick long term.
Cloutier - Was one of the better goalies in the USHL this year. On paper, he has everything you'd want... decent size, reads the play well, good positioning, plus athlete (though not close to high end). He has two areas that I think will keep him from being a NHLer (or probably AHLer)... he gets beat clean a lot. Normally if a goalie can see a shot, you expect them to make the same 95+% of the time. He's more like 80-85%.. at the USHL level. Which is a very bad sign. The second plays into it... but he's probably got the worst glove hand I've seen in a while. He can't catch, he can't react, if it doesn't hit his glove where it was positioned at the shot... he's not making that save consistently. It is really, really bad.
Yunin - Simple shot in the dark on an athletic goalie. Russian scouts rave about his athletic ability and how quick he is everywhere. He's very reliant on that part of his game too... no real fundamentals and all athlete trying to make saves. Long term project to see if that part of his game rounds out.
Curran - By far my favorite pick in the draft. He came over this year to build some draft hype to hopefully get selected in the 2nd or 3rd. Just when he was getting comfortable, he got injured. He reminds me a lot of one eye Carl... huge frame, but doesn't use it physically. Just a possession sort. Skates decent, but not high end. Very good playmaker with high IQ. Solid defensive play with great reads. Doesn't lean on guys as much as you'd like. He's very much a projection pick and raw player, but there is a skill set here. Outside chance of a Wennberg/Soda sort of center. Good shot to take at this point in the draft.
Pitner - Another big time need pick. He's a fantastic shutdown defensemen in the USHL. Routinely was matched up to shutdown the top lines and he does it in a modern fashion. Good skating, timely pokechecks, and physicality at the blueline. There is some offense hidden in his game that'll likely come out at Denver in his junior or senior year. My questions on him are in pure puck skill and his IQ. His skill is not enough to really stand out IMO. It isn't outright horrible, but I don't think it is a plus. His game has some reliance on that too, in that one of his top skills is breaking up plays, retrieving the puck, and one good move and pass to clear the zone. If that skill doesn't translate, he won't. His IQ is good at his level, but I have doubts it is standout. Makes a lot of mistakes for a guy who doesn't play a risky game. A number of bad reads and angles that you wouldn't expect. His skating makes up for it now... but doubtful it will in the future. He looks to me as a low upside, rather meh defensemen. Will need to be a PK and entry denial defensemen to make the show. Avs clearly targeted a RD with those skills to add to the system.
Humphreys - I'm sure people will see the stats and a highlight video and think he's a steal. He has flashes of skill that really made him a potential first rounder in a -1 and -2 seasons. What happened? His skating was exposed in a huge way. It isn't just ugly, it is bad. He can't really move around the ice with any efficiency. He can't play good defense because of it either. He also doesn't seem to process the game fast enough. If you close him off, you neuter is offense completely. Though if you give him space, he can pick you apart. Screams AHL complimentary scorer and nothing more. May not even hit that.
Prischepov - A kid many expected to take a large step this year and it never really came. This is a chance on keeping a kid over here to fill a depth checking role in the minors. Plays with enough tenacity and has enough size he can play a bottom 6 role in the minors if he wants to stay.
IMO the Avs drafted a number of kids for need. They went to build up the goalie depth. Then selected low upside guys to have some projectability in Fischer and Pitner. The smaller forwards they drafted look like complementary sorts of wingers without a ton of skill. Guys who you look to be third wheels and fit with much more skilled players. Curran is the big deviation in this draft... that as an injury risk guy who has some upside.
I'd say this was a rather poor draft that is symptomatic of some chaos in the front office where the GM is directing things instead of a scout. A lack of longer term vision of the players and trying to fit in some guys on a quicker timeline to the system (Nabokov, Fischer and Pitner namely) to get some early results. Humphreys and Curran both look like picks that are exceptions and scouts pounding the table picks. Nabokov and Curran are the guys who can elevate this. If they become a starter and 3rd line center respectively, this draft ends up very good. If they don't, I don't think there is anybody else who plays 200+ games with the Avs.
Nabokov - Very clearly a need and targeted pick. The Avs know they need a goalie and know they probably need one soon. Nabokov will likely be over in 25-26 and a good chance that is in competition for a NHL role. His game isn't that dissimilar to George. Smaller goalie who relies on his legs a lot. His positioning is pretty good and he's a goalie who will challenge shots a lot. He can get off on his reads and he has a tendency to play really low and wide. That's been worked on, but he will likely have to play more upright in the NHL. His blocker is especially weak by NHL standards. IMO there is a decent chance here he's a NHL goalie for a while. Probably more a backup than starter, but if he can clean up some technique... not outside the realm of possibility he's a starter. Don't think he will ever be high end. Pure guess, he was the target for the top pick all along.
Zellers - I'm fairly meh on him. He's not terrible, but I worry about his projection. He's got two calling cards IMO... he's really smart. His IQ and abilities to find spots is pretty great. He's also got a nifty little release. His shot isn't overly powerful or accurate, but his release is tricky. It confuses goalies quite often and beats. He's a meh skater with a low end motor. The motor will have to chance to have any NHL shot as he's not skilled enough to get to the NHL on his own there. If he's a NHLer it'll come as a complementary, offensively tilted middle 6 winger.
Fisher - Another need pick here. He has the size, IQ and skating to succeed at center. He was one of the best Minnesota high school player in his first draft year, but teams were scared about his skill level and translating up. Which was correct. There isn't much skill here and that may keep him from a bigger role in the NHL. His calling card is going to have to be a bottom line, PK, north-south player with a good shot that surprises goalies (it is quite good and his one time is one of the best in the USHL). He's very projectable, but no real upside. Either a 3rd line AHLer who or 4th line NHL who probably doesn't stick long term.
Cloutier - Was one of the better goalies in the USHL this year. On paper, he has everything you'd want... decent size, reads the play well, good positioning, plus athlete (though not close to high end). He has two areas that I think will keep him from being a NHLer (or probably AHLer)... he gets beat clean a lot. Normally if a goalie can see a shot, you expect them to make the same 95+% of the time. He's more like 80-85%.. at the USHL level. Which is a very bad sign. The second plays into it... but he's probably got the worst glove hand I've seen in a while. He can't catch, he can't react, if it doesn't hit his glove where it was positioned at the shot... he's not making that save consistently. It is really, really bad.
Yunin - Simple shot in the dark on an athletic goalie. Russian scouts rave about his athletic ability and how quick he is everywhere. He's very reliant on that part of his game too... no real fundamentals and all athlete trying to make saves. Long term project to see if that part of his game rounds out.
Curran - By far my favorite pick in the draft. He came over this year to build some draft hype to hopefully get selected in the 2nd or 3rd. Just when he was getting comfortable, he got injured. He reminds me a lot of one eye Carl... huge frame, but doesn't use it physically. Just a possession sort. Skates decent, but not high end. Very good playmaker with high IQ. Solid defensive play with great reads. Doesn't lean on guys as much as you'd like. He's very much a projection pick and raw player, but there is a skill set here. Outside chance of a Wennberg/Soda sort of center. Good shot to take at this point in the draft.
Pitner - Another big time need pick. He's a fantastic shutdown defensemen in the USHL. Routinely was matched up to shutdown the top lines and he does it in a modern fashion. Good skating, timely pokechecks, and physicality at the blueline. There is some offense hidden in his game that'll likely come out at Denver in his junior or senior year. My questions on him are in pure puck skill and his IQ. His skill is not enough to really stand out IMO. It isn't outright horrible, but I don't think it is a plus. His game has some reliance on that too, in that one of his top skills is breaking up plays, retrieving the puck, and one good move and pass to clear the zone. If that skill doesn't translate, he won't. His IQ is good at his level, but I have doubts it is standout. Makes a lot of mistakes for a guy who doesn't play a risky game. A number of bad reads and angles that you wouldn't expect. His skating makes up for it now... but doubtful it will in the future. He looks to me as a low upside, rather meh defensemen. Will need to be a PK and entry denial defensemen to make the show. Avs clearly targeted a RD with those skills to add to the system.
Humphreys - I'm sure people will see the stats and a highlight video and think he's a steal. He has flashes of skill that really made him a potential first rounder in a -1 and -2 seasons. What happened? His skating was exposed in a huge way. It isn't just ugly, it is bad. He can't really move around the ice with any efficiency. He can't play good defense because of it either. He also doesn't seem to process the game fast enough. If you close him off, you neuter is offense completely. Though if you give him space, he can pick you apart. Screams AHL complimentary scorer and nothing more. May not even hit that.
Prischepov - A kid many expected to take a large step this year and it never really came. This is a chance on keeping a kid over here to fill a depth checking role in the minors. Plays with enough tenacity and has enough size he can play a bottom 6 role in the minors if he wants to stay.
IMO the Avs drafted a number of kids for need. They went to build up the goalie depth. Then selected low upside guys to have some projectability in Fischer and Pitner. The smaller forwards they drafted look like complementary sorts of wingers without a ton of skill. Guys who you look to be third wheels and fit with much more skilled players. Curran is the big deviation in this draft... that as an injury risk guy who has some upside.
I'd say this was a rather poor draft that is symptomatic of some chaos in the front office where the GM is directing things instead of a scout. A lack of longer term vision of the players and trying to fit in some guys on a quicker timeline to the system (Nabokov, Fischer and Pitner namely) to get some early results. Humphreys and Curran both look like picks that are exceptions and scouts pounding the table picks. Nabokov and Curran are the guys who can elevate this. If they become a starter and 3rd line center respectively, this draft ends up very good. If they don't, I don't think there is anybody else who plays 200+ games with the Avs.
UnkleKraker
Registered User
Welcome to the eternal winter of HFAvs. @SeaEgles being the obvious exception.
- Jul 27, 2021
- 2,458
- 3,752
Thanks for taking the time to write all these detailed thoughts. For those of us who don't follow this kind of stuff at all (me, for example), it's interesting to hear what we may or may not get out of our picks
If I could like posts, I would like this one but I can't lol.
Question, who are the players you would have targeted instead that went after Avs selection at each pick? Also, are you suggesting that MacFarland wanted blokes that fitted Bednar's need for "gritty north-to-south forechequing" players instead of BPA?
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
The problem with taking low upside role players is they don’t graduate drafted low upside role players from the system. Many of them never get signed either. What do they expect to change? I get they love this long timeline of the USHL to NCAA path but it hasn’t been fruitful at all. The org’s attention span actually is just 2 years after they enter the org either via draft, trade or FA signing.
Prischepov was 10 minutes away from becoming a free agent and could have looked for a AHL deal or something, now he’s surely going to be sent back to the Q for an overage year and then probably goes back home the year after that.
What was Curran’s injury?
Prischepov was 10 minutes away from becoming a free agent and could have looked for a AHL deal or something, now he’s surely going to be sent back to the Q for an overage year and then probably goes back home the year after that.
What was Curran’s injury?
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henchman21
Mr. Meeseeks
- Feb 24, 2012
- 66,904
- 53,239
Richard88
John 3:16
- Jun 29, 2019
- 19,399
- 21,142
Just looking through the Avs draft on capfriendly and it's actually impressive how the Avs managed to make as many picks as they did despite spending so many picks at recent deadlines.
For example they managed to translate Meyers, Tatar, and MacDermid into 2 5th's (Yunin and Cloutier), a 7th (Humphrey's), and Bardakov. Trading down also gave them picks to take Zeller and Curran.
Regardless of what one thinks of the individual picks themselves it was a pretty shrewd strategy for the Avs to take given how few picks they had and how few prospects they have in their system.
For example they managed to translate Meyers, Tatar, and MacDermid into 2 5th's (Yunin and Cloutier), a 7th (Humphrey's), and Bardakov. Trading down also gave them picks to take Zeller and Curran.
Regardless of what one thinks of the individual picks themselves it was a pretty shrewd strategy for the Avs to take given how few picks they had and how few prospects they have in their system.
BaconNater
Registered User
HF was so whack on draft night I'm not sure I saw your opinions on the Ducks and the Sennecke pick, what did everyone think? I hope he's the 2nd best player in the draft behind Nabokov now what a great reaction by him
Just looking through the Avs draft on capfriendly and it's actually impressive how the Avs managed to make as many picks as they did despite spending so many picks at recent deadlines.
For example they managed to translate Meyers, Tatar, and MacDermid into 2 5th's (Yunin and Cloutier), a 7th (Humphrey's), and Bardakov. Trading down also gave them picks to take Zeller and Curran.
Regardless of what one thinks of the individual picks themselves it was a pretty shrewd strategy for the Avs to take given how few picks they had and how few prospects they have in their system.
I think they are trying new strategy. Try to hit the lottery with quantity of picks.
It makes sense. They know they have to trade better picks away so leaves us with almost nothing, so better to have more lottery tickets for potential big pay off. I like it personally. It makes a lot of sense.
Not to mention our drafting has been piss poor, so just throw out more high risk/high reward picks and hope for the best.
Chiarelli
Registered User
- Jan 27, 2019
- 4,973
- 6,956
when you bat 1% your best strategy is to swing 100 timesJust looking through the Avs draft on capfriendly and it's actually impressive how the Avs managed to make as many picks as they did despite spending so many picks at recent deadlines.
For example they managed to translate Meyers, Tatar, and MacDermid into 2 5th's (Yunin and Cloutier), a 7th (Humphrey's), and Bardakov. Trading down also gave them picks to take Zeller and Curran.
Regardless of what one thinks of the individual picks themselves it was a pretty shrewd strategy for the Avs to take given how few picks they had and how few prospects they have in their system.
