Pronman is such a weird reactionist with his rankings though. I really don't respect it. He used to be the biggest booster of tiny "big points" players. And he's sort of pulled a complete 180. Which i understand. I think @MS would agree...things have shifted significantly. But Pronman was always so much more into little waterbug nobodies than anybody. It's hard to take seriously when it almost feels like it pains him to rank bigger guys higher to reflect "who is drafted higher". But he's realized that. He just...still doesn't seem to really like them. He's contouring his rankings to "what teams prefer" rather than what he prefers.
I'd had this comment/criticism of Pronman quite a few times as well, since about 2021-22 when he suddenly switched from loving small skilled players to being a size queen.Yeah, I've said this a few times.
I think Pronman is a 'trier' who really, really wants to be a scout and can pile together buzzwords to convince most people he knows what he's talking about ... but I just don't think he can evaluate talent.
Like you say, he spent years as the main guy touting tiny little danglers with high point totals ... and his rankings ended up being horrible as a result. And now he's pivoted 180 degrees the other direction - almost overnight - to being the biggest champion of big players and toughness.
I think he was smart enough to realize that his rankings were bad with hindsight and he's adjusted his process, but I think it's just a 'reaction' rather than actually understanding what he's seeing when he's watching a hockey game and being able to project. Something like putting Hunter Laing over Andrew Basha in his rankings for this year's draft is nuts.
I'd had this comment/criticism of Pronman quite a few times as well, since about 2021-22 when he suddenly switched from loving small skilled players to being a size queen.
He obviously made the switch because his old lists were bad, and he wanted to more closely reflect the preferences of NHL teams so that even if he is "wrong", he's wrong in the same direction as the NHL clubs and won't really look bad in comparison.
I think his lists (and mocks, in particular) are best for determining what NHL teams think. But I don't think Pronman is a good scout. His write-ups, and even podcast appearances, always describe players in the most vague, boilerplate descriptions. Contrast to someone like Scott Wheeler, who though I think his ultimate rankings are less accurate than Pronman (mostly because Pronman is aping team lists), Wheeler actually demonstrates way more detail in describing what a player is like and what traits they have. He's actually scouting/watching, though perhaps his conclusions may be more "off".
The bolded is a good comment too. People always rip on Button because he has some "out there" rankings, but if you saw the individual list of any scout, they'd all have "out there" rankings. Individual scouts will like some guys and not like other guys. They're not going to look like a consensus Bobby Mac list.Yeah, agreed.
Like you say, the 'big change' from Pronman isn't 'I've learned to scout players better' as much as it appears to just be 'I've realized what I was doing wasn't working and now I'm doing the opposite'. It's like the George Costanza of scouting. And he's managed to make his rankings better by doing it, but I still don't think they show a lot of understanding.
Wheeler I don't think is great either and is stuck in the 10-years-ago 'draft small guys that produce' cycle but yeah he's probably a better actual scout than Pronman.
People hate Button and he makes some mistakes but to me his lists are the most like what you'd see from an actual scout ... because he was an actual NHL scouting director.
The bolded is a good comment too. People always rip on Button because he has some "out there" rankings, but if you saw the individual list of any scout, they'd all have "out there" rankings. Individual scouts will like some guys and not like other guys. They're not going to look like a consensus Bobby Mac list.
Yeah, agreed.
Like you say, the 'big change' from Pronman isn't 'I've learned to scout players better' as much as it appears to just be 'I've realized what I was doing wasn't working and now I'm doing the opposite'. It's like the George Costanza of scouting. And he's managed to make his rankings better by doing it, but I still don't think they show a lot of understanding.
Wheeler I don't think is great either and is stuck in the 10-years-ago 'draft small guys that produce' cycle but yeah he's probably a better actual scout than Pronman.
People hate Button and he makes some mistakes but to me his lists are the most like what you'd see from an actual scout ... because he was an actual NHL scouting director.
The bolded is a good comment too. People always rip on Button because he has some "out there" rankings, but if you saw the individual list of any scout, they'd all have "out there" rankings. Individual scouts will like some guys and not like other guys. They're not going to look like a consensus Bobby Mac list.
Apparently he’s the cousin of former NASCAR driver Dick Trickleim reading the late round picks disappearing article and one of the nashville's scouts is named rick knickle?
im reading the late round picks disappearing article and one of the nashville's scouts is named rick knickle?
Yep.This draft is up there with the 2020 NHL draft for my utter lack of excitement.
How does the 2025 draft top 5 currently look? Heavy at F or D? Cause, we know Sj is taking Celebrini. Of the other clubs in the top 5, I see Chi back in the top 5. Ana probably in the 5-8 range next season as they should look to improve and give a better situation for their prospects to develop, CBS, too much chaos to get out of the bottom 5, Montreal, should not be in the bottom 5 next season, Utah, hard to say what their plans are.Here is my top 15 rankings:
1) Macklin Celebrini
2) Zeev Buium
3) Zayne Parekh
4) Ivan Demidov
5) Artyom Levshunov
6) Sam Dickenson
7) Tij Iginla
8) Berkley Catton
9) Carter Yakemchuk
10) Michael Brandsegg-Nygard
11) Cayden Lindstrom
12) Alfons Freij
13) EJ Emery
14) Igor Chernyshov
15) Maxim Masse
I'm really not that excited about the quality of this draft. But at the top end I love the defensemen. The forward group feels lacking to me to the point I'm willing to reach on guys like Freij and Emery relative to where others have them ranked.
How does the 2025 draft top 5 currently look? Heavy at F or D? Cause, we know Sj is taking Celebrini. Of the other clubs in the top 5, I see Chi back in the top 5. Ana probably in the 5-8 range next season as they should look to improve and give a better situation for their prospects to develop, CBS, too much chaos to get out of the bottom 5, Montreal, should not be in the bottom 5 next season, Utah, hard to say what their plans are.
If next draft is heavy at F at the top, Chi/CBS probably better off taking Dmen if it's kind of a close tie breaker between prospects.
ok. cause seems like #2 could be any of like 4 players. Typically it's like maybe between 2 guys. Like in 2013, you could have argued Jones or Barkov. Last year Fantilli or Carlsson.I honestly don't know anything about the 2025 draft, other than forward James Hagens is the likely 1st overall pick.