Prospect Info: 2024 Memorial Cup (Saginaw Wins - Beck Named MVP)

[Boss Man Hughes]

London will probably beat Kelowna so the Drummondville/Kelowna game would be for a playoff spot.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Saginaw is 2-0.

Drummondville is 0-2; however all is not lost.

Tomorrow, London plays Moose Jaw. If London wins, which I think they will, then the Tuesday night game between Moose Jaw and Drummondville is the tie breaker game. Winner goes to SF, loser goes home.

That would also mean Wednesday night's game between London and Saginaw would determine 1st place. Winner goes to Championship game, loser plays in SF.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

London will probably beat Kelowna so the Drummondville/Kelowna game would be for a playoff spot.

Moose Jaw

 

[ChesterNimitz]

What makes Dickenson that much better? I don't see a great player there.

It's not a question of whether Dickinson is a great player (as neither Dickinson nor Mailloux are great players) but whether Dickinson is a superior prospect to Mailloux.

As some know, I have taken an interest in Mailloux since the day, to the surprise of many, that Bergevin drafted this controversial player in the first round in 2021. As a manager of a large amateur sports organization for the past 11 years who is required to answer to a host of masters including the communities we serve, governmental funders and major corporate sponsors I understand the pressures that major sport organizations operate under. In that context, I found that the drafting of Mailloux, who was at the time mired in salacious criminal proceedings, to have taken a huge dose of courage. That exercise of independent thought, that rejected prevailing consensuses and biases, was a rarity.

In my professional capacity I have sat on a host of disciplinary committees at both the national and provincial level which has required me to participate in the adjudication of a number of troubled, youthful athletes. Perhaps it's as a consequence of my long experience as a criminal defence counsel that I was prepared to give Mailloux the benefit of the doubt. Almost immediately after watching one of his interviews that took place either shortly before or after his selection by Montreal I came to the conclusion that Mailloux was intellectually a cut above the many troubled youth aged athletes that I have dealt with.

Satisfied that, at least intellectually, Mailloux was salvageable, I started to follow him closely in this first year at London and quickly came to the conclusion that Mailloux was, despite his size, not a physical player, did not possess elite skating and had little defensive acumen. I even suggested during his first year in the OHL that his success in the NHL may require him to be converted to a forward.

The one outstanding skill that Mailloux did possess was, as I often reported, an elite level of offensive vision and a first pass that was the best that I had seen in a Montreal prospect since Subban and Chelios before that..

I noted concerns about Mailloux's conditioning but reported that, at least at the OHL level, he could, on most occasions, avoid and skate away from opposing forecheckers and, at least one time per period, transport the puck from his defensive zone through the neutral zone and into the offensive zone. He possessed an excellent wrist shot but seemed a bit uncoordinated taking one-timers or just plain slap shots. His defensive game was always at best spotty and he lacked either the strength or inclination to close the gap on opposing forwards or eliminate them on the boards. I suggested that the noticeable gaps in Mailloux's game may be as a result of the considerable developmental time he lost due to COVID, his suspensions and injuries.

My assessment of Mailloux continued this year in the AHL, and though he had statistical success, the same gaps in his game were manifested against better/higher competition and he showed a general inability to transport the puck the length of the ice except in the rarest of occasions. Though Mailloux showed a marginal increase in this general stamina, I did not see the level of improvement during his first year in the AHL that offers this writer any confidence that Mailloux has the skills, strength and skating ability to play as a top pairing defenceman at the NHL level. That improvement may occur this year, but it may not.

Watching Mailloux play last year for the Knights provided me with the opportunity to watch Dickinson and while Dickinson lacks elite skating, except for offensive vision/play making, every aspect of Dickinson's game is superior to Mailloux's. Dickinson's skating is more dynamic than Mailloux and he is a far better defender. Dickinson is stronger on his skates and plays a vastly superior physical game than Mailloux. While most will be surprised by this, Dickinson has a better shot than Mailloux. There's a confidence and maturity to Dickinson's game that is clearly noticeable and he presents as a player who has the leadership skills to be a captain in the NHL. Dickinson is a sure-fire top pairing defenceman at the next level .

If Dickinson possessed elite skating, he would be the clear number 2 in this upcoming draft. Maybe even challenging Celebrini for first overall.

Dickinson, if that valuable, will get picked before 5th.

That is more than just a possibility. If London, as expected, marches on to winning the Memorial Cup, Dickinson will be a hot commodity.

 

[Scintillating10]

It's not a question of whether Dickinson is a great player (as neither Dickinson nor Mailloux are great players) but whether Dickinson is a superior prospect to Mailloux.

As some know, I have taken an interest in Mailloux since the day, to the surprise of many that Bergevin drafted this controversial player in the first round in 2021. As a manager of a large amateur sports organization for the past 11 years who is required to answer to a host of masters including the communities we serve, governmental funders and major corporate sponsors I understand the pressures that major sport organizations operate under. In that context, I found that the drafting of Mailloux, who was at the time mired in salacious criminal proceedings, to have taken a huge dose of courage. That exercise of independent thought, that rejected prevailing consensuses and biases, was a rarity.

In my professional capacity I have sat on a host of disciplinary committees at both the national and provincial level which has required me to participate in the adjudication of a number of troubled, youthful athletes. Perhaps it's as a consequence of my long experience a criminal defence counsel that I was prepared to give Mailloux the benefit of the doubt. Almost immediately after watching one of his interviews that took place either shortly before or after his selection by Montreal I came to the conclusion that Mailloux was intellectually a cut above the many troubled youth aged athletes that I have dealt with.

Satisfied that, at least intellectually, Mailloux was salvageable, I started to follow him closely in this first year at London and quickly came to the conclusion that Mailloux was, despite his size, not a physical player, did not possess elite skating and had little defensive acumen. I even suggested during his year in the OHL that his success in the NHL may require him to be converted to a forward.

The one elite asset that Mailloux did possess was, as I often reported, an elite level of offensive vision and a first pass that was the best that I had seen in a Montreal prospect since Subban and Chelios before that..

I noted concerns about Mailloux's conditioning but reported that, at least at the OHL level, he could, on most occasions, avoid and skate away from opposing forecheckers and, at least one time per period, transport the puck from his defensive zone through the neutral zone and into the offensive zone. He possessed an excellent wrist shot but seemed a bit uncoordinated taking one-timers or just plain slap shots. His defensive game was always as best spotty and he lacked either the strength or inclination to close the gap on opposing forwards or eliminate them on the boards. I suggested that the noticeable gaps in Mailloux's game may be as a result of the considerable developmental time he lost due to COVID, his suspensions and injuries.

My assessment of Mailloux continued this year in the AHL, and though he had statistical success, the same gaps in his game were manifested against better/higher competition and he showed a general inability to transport the puck the length of the ice except in the rarest of occasions. Though Mailloux showed a marginal increase in this general stamina, I did not see the level of improvement during his first year in the AHL that offers this writer any confidence that Mailloux has the skills, strength and skating ability to play as a top pairing defenceman at the NHL level. That improvement may occur this year, but it may not.

Watching Mailloux play last year for the Knights provided me with the opportunity to watch Dickinson and while Dickinson lacks elite skating, except for offensive vision/play making, every aspect of Dickinson's game is superior to Mailloux's. Dickinson's skating is more dynamic than Mailloux and he is a far better defende. Dickinson is stronger on his skates and plays a vastly superior physical game than Mailloux. While most will be surprised by this, Dickinson has a better shot than Mailloux. There's a confidence and maturity to Dickinson's game that is clearly noticeable and he presents as a player who has the leadership skills to be a captain in the NHL. Dickinson is a sure-fire top pairing defenceman at the next level .

If Dickinson possessed elite skating, he would be the clear number 2 in this upcoming draft. Maybe even challenging Celebrini for first overall.


That is more than just a possibility. If London, as expected, marches on to winning the Memorial Cup, Dickinson will be a hot commodity.

Mailloux looked good NHL game I saw. Sounds like you critiquing him too hard.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Mailloux looked good NHL game I saw. Sounds like you critiquing him too hard.

No, just that I believe Dickinson is a better NHL prospect as of this writing.

 

[Mudz]

No, just that I believe Dickinson is a better NHL prospect as of this writing.

cool story bro.

But why are they even compared? Mailloux as a righty holds more intrinsic value anyway. I really love how Mailloux went from a for sure top 4 to a possible top 2. Is Dickinson a top 1? Nah, top 2? Probably. For sure top 4, so same level of prospect as Mailloux. And Mailloux can fight.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

cool story bro.

But why are they even compared? Mailloux as a righty holds more intrinsic value anyway. I really love how Mailloux went from a for sure top 4 to a possible top 2. Is Dickinson a top 1? Nah, top 2? Probably. For sure top 4, so same level of prospect as Mailloux. And Mailloux can fight.

Let me respond by asking if any other team drafting in the top 12 this draft would trade that pick even up for Mailloux? If your answer is that no team would, then you must question yourself as to what level of prospect Mailloux really is.

 

[RationalExpectations]

cool story bro.

But why are they even compared? Mailloux as a righty holds more intrinsic value anyway. I really love how Mailloux went from a for sure top 4 to a possible top 2. Is Dickinson a top 1? Nah, top 2? Probably. For sure top 4, so same level of prospect as Mailloux. And Mailloux can fight.

Mailloux is not a sure top 4 at all. His defensive decision making is sometimes questionnable, he takes dumb penalties, he does not move the puck very well. He has a powerful stride and a great shot from the point which won t be enough for him to QB a PP most likely. He has the potential to be a top 4 once he has improved his game but let s not make it a sure thing.

Let s just look at stats : in his D+2, Mailloux had more penalty minutes, less PPG, worst +/-, than Dickinson in his D year. (The only thing he had more were goals)

 

[Scintillating10]

No, just that I believe Dickinson is a better NHL prospect as of this writing.

True, Dickinson is a stud. Dickinson, Hutson, Wifi is a great left side for next 10 years

 

[BJCOLLINS]

Look, comparing Mailloux to Dickinson is as unreasonable as comparing him to Levshunov…….Dickinson was projected to be a #1 OA pick at the end of last season and always looked at as elite, Mailloux not so much.
People here are a little harsh regarding Mailloux’s skill set? In his draft year he was viewed as a 1st round pick, based on his skill set! Obviously his off ice issues and his own declaration not to draft him moved him down to the bottom of the 1st round. That’s fact, search NHL draft war rooms, not HF prognostications. His progression has been hampered by ugly puritans clutching their pearls and Covid. He will take a little longer to develop & the Habs are fortunate to be in a position where they have an abundance of D prospects.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Owen Beck was quite good last night even if he didn't get on the score sheet. Threw a couple mean hits out there, as well. We are gonna love this player as our long term 3C.

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Owen Beck was quite good last night even if he didn't get on the score sheet. Threw a couple mean hits out there, as well. We are gonna love this player as our long term 3C.

He's 100% going to be a long time pro player. If even some of the offensive tools translate, the production should be pretty good too. That wrister alone has 20 goals in it, easy.

 

[Habs Icing]

Dickinson is a sure-fire top pairing defenceman at the next level .

Do you think Guhle and Reinbacher are top-paring d-men? If you answer yes, why use assets to get Dickinson when our forward prospect pool is dismal and needs help?

 

[BJCOLLINS]

Owen Beck was quite good last night even if he didn't get on the score sheet. Threw a couple mean hits out there, as well. We are gonna love this player as our long term 3C.

60% on faceoffs last night 15/25….his game is steady & reliable. 200 ft player who has opportunistic hands.

 

[Whitesnake]

Do you think Guhle and Reinbacher are top-paring d-men? If you answer yes, why use assets to get Dickinson when our forward prospect pool is dismal and needs help?

And if the answer is no?

And if the answer is yes....but we could do better.....what if you build a stronger team with getting a better d-man...and trade 1 of those 2 to improve up front? Why do people drool over Dach and Newhook that were products of draft picks trades and not be willing to trade what we have the could get similar results?

Why do people see a prospect pool as a separate thing from the team itself? What if you acquire a 22-year old kid that's already in the NHL doing great but isn't part of a prospect pool no more? Would that be a loss?

What if the evaluation is we think Dickinson and return for Guhle is superior to Iginla and Guhle?

 

[Habs Icing]

And if the answer is no?

And if the answer is yes....but we could do better.....what if you build a stronger team with getting a better d-man...and trade 1 of those 2 to improve up front? Why do people drool over Dach and Newhook that were products of draft picks trades and not be willing to trade what we have the could get similar results?

Why do people see a prospect pool as a separate thing from the team itself? What if you acquire a 22-year old kid that's already in the NHL doing great but isn't part of a prospect pool no more? Would that be a loss?

What if the evaluation is we think Dickinson and return for Guhle is superior to Iginla and Guhle?

If the answer is no, then that's an admission they screwed up last year's 5 OA draft. If they picked a 2nd pair d-man with that draft pick then the scouting draft team is not doing their job.

If the answer is yes, it is still not a simple pick the better d-man answer. We are already crowded on the left side and now you want to squeeze another prospect into that side. You forget you don't only have to develop these defence prospects but you also have to showcase them to get their full value in return. We'll put Matheson aside for now. On the left side:

Guhle
Harris
Struble
Huston
Xhekaj
Engstrom

That's 6 LHD for 3- maybe 4 spots. Explain to me how you are going to find playing time to not only help them develop but to also showcase them for a future trade and get their full value? And now into this cornucopia of LHD you want to squeeze another LHD d-man. I'll bet you some of them are going to suffocate and wither on the vine.

 

[Whitesnake]

If the answer is no, then that's an admission they screwed up last year's 5 OA draft. If they picked a 2nd pair d-man with that draft pick then the scouting draft team is not doing their job.

If the answer is yes, it is still not a simple pick the d-man answer. We are already crowded on the left side and now you want to squeeze another prospect into that side. You forget you don't only have to develop these defence prospects but you also have to showcase them to get their full value in return. We'll put Matheson aside for now. On the left side:

Guhle
Harris
Struble
Huston
Zhekaj
Engstrom

That's 6 LHD for 3- maybe 4 spots. Explain to me how you are going to find playing time to not only help them develop but to also showcase them for a future trade and get their full value?

There is no way that if the idea is that Dickinson can becomes a top 2 d-man, that names like Struble and Harris and Xhekaj should ever been thought about. Then you have 2 totally unproven commodities in Engstrom and Hutson. Mind you, you'll probably say that about Dickinson that he is unproven, but a kid pencilled top 10 for a full year is usually going to hit. Or that what's the past dictates.

My sole and only point is this......what's the toughest to acquire. And where's the greatest value as far as playoffs are concerned. I LOVE Iginla. I could even envision liking Sennecke in 4 years. There is, for me, NO WAY, that I'd take any of those guys ahead of a guy who I think will be a top 2 d-man. Not happening. No matter the side he plays on. 'Cause at the very worst, you trade a top end guy. And you WILL get a top end guy up front. And chances are, what they'll get will be PROVEN. If you trade a proven Guhle and you want to compte, you will acquire a proven forward. And you will then get the help needed.

There's a limit in which guys you said have value no matter if they play or not. Sometimes, playing them decrease their value too you know.

Finally, no matter how you see it...with or without Dickinson the entirety of your issue remain. We still have the number of d-men you mentioned. 1 more doesn't change a thing. And if it does, it just improves it even more. On the left, I'm not ready to pencil Guhle as a surefire No1. I love him. If I choose, he stays. But often injured, offense unknown.....to me Dickinson is ahead. Why we would not pick him because of others in place....

 

[Tyson]

There is no way that if the idea is that Dickinson can becomes a top 2 d-man, that names like Struble and Harris and Xhekaj should ever been thought about. Then you have 2 totally unproven commodities in Engstrom and Hutson. Mind you, you'll probably say that about Dickinson that he is unproven, but a kid pencilled top 10 for a full year is usually going to hit. Or that what's the past dictates.

My sole and only point is this......what's the toughest to acquire. And where's the greatest value as far as playoffs are concerned. I LOVE Iginla. I could even envision liking Sennecke in 4 years. There is, for me, NO WAY, that I'd take any of those guys ahead of a guy who I think will be a top 2 d-man. Not happening. No matter the side he plays on. 'Cause at the very worst, you trade a top end guy. And you WILL get a top end guy up front. And chances are, what they'll get will be PROVEN. If you trade a proven Guhle and you want to compte, you will acquire a proven forward. And you will then get the help needed.

There's a limit in which guys you said have value no matter if they play or not. Sometimes, playing them decrease their value too you know.

Finally, no matter how you see it...with or without Dickinson the entirety of your issue remain. We still have the number of d-men you mentioned. 1 more doesn't change a thing. And if it does, it just improves it even more. On the left, I'm not ready to pencil Guhle as a surefire No1. I love him. If I choose, he stays. But often injured, offense unknown.....to me Dickinson is ahead. Why we would not pick him because of others in place....

I can see Dickinson becoming as effective as Miro Heiskanen

 

[Whitesnake]

I can see Dickinson becoming as effective as Miro Heiskanen

If so, and again, I don't know, I will wish that if Bobrov and Cie think so too....and come to the conclusion that nah...we need a forward even if we know that the forward might be below the D...that those guys aren't with us for a long time.

Frankly, it's the same with Reinbacher. I was not thrilled. But if they thought that the guy is 1st pairing and insanely effective and will easily contain whoever forward like Leonard or Michkov that will come his way.....well they will have been right all along. And that him being a righty was just icing on the cake. Yet, to this day, I still believe they picked him while the righty portion of it was MORE than the icing.....We will see.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

I can see Dickinson becoming as effective as Miro Heiskanen

A different type of effectiveness.

Heiskanen is a slicker, more fluid skater who anticipates/reads the play as well as any defenceman in the NHL. Dickinson plays a heavier game and has a superior shot. Both are top pairing defencemen who will log big minutes for their respective teams.

If London wins , I can see Dickinson going top three in this draft. Watching him play with Mailloux last year was an eye opener and I could see why Hunter traded the proverbial farm to acquire him. If he gains that missing half step in straight forward speed he will be perennial Norris Trophy candidate. Even if his skating ability remains largely static he will prove to be an important player for any team that is lucky enough to select him.

With Dickinson, Buium, Levshunov, Silayev and Yakemchuk available, this is a great draft for defenceman. And I think people are really sleeping on Yakemchuk who has the potential to be the best of the lot.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

A different type of effectiveness.

Heiskanen is a slicker, more fluid skater who anticipates/reads the play as well as any defenceman in the NHL. Dickinson plays a heavier game and has a superior shot. Both are top pairing defencemen who will log big minutes for their respective teams.

If London wins , I can see Dickinson going top three in this draft. Watching him play with Mailloux last year was an eye opener and I could see why Hunter traded the proverbial farm to acquire him. If he gains that missing half step in straight forward speed he will be perennial Norris Trophy candidate. Even if his skating ability remains largely static he will prove to be an important player for any team that is lucky enough to select him.

With Dickinson, Buium, Levshunov, Silayev and Yakemchuk available, this is a great draft for defenceman. And I think people are really sleeping on Yakemchuk who has the potential to be the best of the lot.

A lot of pro Mocks are giving Ottawa Parekh. I think they take Yakemchuk. I think Arizona is going D, too.

Yakemchuk is bigger, stronger, better skater and is a beast at both ends. He's improved his defensive play a lot over last season.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Did you time-travel to a Memorial Cup in the next decade?

Kelowna, Moose Jaw all the same to me.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

A lot of pro Mocks are giving Ottawa Parekh. I think they take Yakemchuk. I think Arizona is going D, too.

Yakemchuk is bigger, stronger, better skater and is a beast at both ends. He's improved his defensive play a lot over last season.

Watching Parekh in the Memorial Cup is all you need to understand the weaknesses in this player's game.

I think Yakemchuk is the sleeper in this draft and I would be very willing to trade Mailloux to be in a position to draft Yakemchuk. Frankly, I would lose no sleep if we took him at 5 OA.

 

[Team_Spirit]

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