Prospect Info: 2024 - #50 OA - LW Nikita Artamonov

[Unsustainable]

 

[Svechhammer]

We just needed to stop talking about TDA and the kid starts going off again!

 

[Unsustainable]

Why I really liked this pick, might be the steal of the draft.

 

[TheBigLetowski]

Why I really liked this pick, might be the steal of the draft.

What if this kid turns into another Kirill the thrill? A man can dream?

 

[Svechhammer]

What if this kid turns into another Kirill the thrill? A man can dream?

Yeah but judging from the Nikishin threads we have to completely tamper expectations because he's European

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Yeah but judging from the Nikishin threads we have to completely tamper expectations because he's European

Lol, seriously. Everyone knew Kaprizov was gonna be incredible in the NHL even before he got to the Wild, and he was. Nikishin I would actually say has been better all around in the K than Kaprizov was so the people doubting him and thinking he'll just be a 3rd pair physical guy in the NHL crack me up. Hopefully Artamonov continues this trajectory as he's looking exciting as hell too and like he could wind up being a prospect of that caliber

 

[A Star is Burns]

You guys are weird. Nobody said Nikishin (or Artamonov) is guaranteed to fail. Nobody is rooting for him to fail. Nobody said he's only going to be a third pairing guy forever. But Kaprizov is not the only example of one of the best players outside of the NHL to ever come over. Some of them have failed entirely and plenty of others have not lived up to the height of their expectations. Both of them might be superstars, but it's also not a guarantee no matter how good they look over there.

 

[Svechhammer]

You guys are weird. Nobody said Nikishin (or Artamonov) is guaranteed to fail. Nobody is rooting for him to fail. Nobody said he's only going to be a third pairing guy forever. But Kaprizov is not the only example of one of the best players outside of the NHL to ever come over. Some of them have failed entirely and plenty of others have not lived up to the height of their expectations. Both of them might be superstars, but it's also not a guarantee no matter how good they look over there.

Yeah but prospects fail all the time. We aren't heavily questioning the ability of Canadian prospects because someone like Nugent-Hopkins didn't become the superstar that he was projected to be, and yet every time a top Euro isn't a superstar it's treated as some referendum on non-NA talent.

Nikishin is an elite prospect, and it's looking like so is Arty. Hedging failure in their careers or projecting them to be disappointments because of those who came before is a little BS in my opinion, especially when our own scouts are incredibly high on at least Nik.

 

[barriers]

50 KHL points at 19 years,1 month old? Not too shabby

 

[Unsustainable]

50 KHL points at 19 years,1 month old? Not too shabby

Not at all

 

[A Star is Burns]

Yeah but prospects fail all the time. We aren't heavily questioning the ability of Canadian prospects because someone like Nugent-Hopkins didn't become the superstar that he was projected to be, and yet every time a top Euro isn't a superstar it's treated as some referendum on non-NA talent.

Nikishin is an elite prospect, and it's looking like so is Arty. Hedging failure in their careers or projecting them to be disappointments because of those who came before is a little BS in my opinion, especially when our own scouts are incredibly high on at least Nik.

I don't disagree that Europeans and Russians face biases more, but I can think of plenty of biases that are similar for guys that played in Canadian Junior or NCAA or that follow them all the way up through the minors and NHL. And most prospects have plenty of uncertainty baked into their conversation.

 

[bleedgreen]

Lol, seriously. Everyone knew Kaprizov was gonna be incredible in the NHL even before he got to the Wild, and he was. Nikishin I would actually say has been better all around in the K than Kaprizov was so the people doubting him and thinking he'll just be a 3rd pair physical guy in the NHL crack me up. Hopefully Artamonov continues this trajectory as he's looking exciting as hell too and like he could wind up being a prospect of that caliber

There’s a difference between “thinking he’s a third pair guy” and “I’m not going to go overboard and just be happy we’re getting at least a third pair guy, and then be really happy when they are more”. I feel like you think you’re in a battle or something. There’s nothing wrong with not making huge predictions and just being happy we have a good prospect on the way. You want to go really strong with it. Cool. Mocking people who just want to be realistic until we know and see more seems like an interesting approach when we’re all on the same side.

Artamonov is scoring which is great, but his best skill is still the motor and the forechecking. He isn’t dangling and scoring ridiculous highlight reel goals - he’s burying good chances and has chemistry with linemates. I would absolutely take the same stance with him. We took him for the motor and that should translate. He was thought to be a likely middle six forward, and I’ll be pumped if he’s that. Not disappointed because this years production didn’t lead to him being Kaprizov 2.0.

 

[bleedgreen]

I don't disagree that Europeans and Russians face biases more, but I can think of plenty of biases that are similar for guys that played in Canadian Junior or NCAA or that follow them all the way up through the minors and NHL. And most prospects have plenty of uncertainty baked into their conversation.

Zac Boychuk was a sick junior player with tons of highlight reel plays, and many of us thought he’d be the poo.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

2 things can be true at once:

1) the path these guys are taking is the one they'd need to take to become superstars
2) there is a long way to go for either of these guys to become superstars

 

[chaz4hockey]

There’s a difference between “thinking he’s a third pair guy” and “I’m not going to go overboard and just be happy we’re getting at least a third pair guy, and then be really happy when they are more”. I feel like you think you’re in a battle or something. There’s nothing wrong with not making huge predictions and just being happy we have a good prospect on the way. You want to go really strong with it. Cool. Mocking people who just want to be realistic until we know and see more seems like an interesting approach when we’re all on the same side.

Artamonov is scoring which is great, but his best skill is still the motor and the forechecking. He isn’t dangling and scoring ridiculous highlight reel goals - he’s burying good chances and has chemistry with linemates. I would absolutely take the same stance with him. We took him for the motor and that should translate. He was thought to be a likely middle six forward, and I’ll be pumped if he’s that. Not disappointed because this years production didn’t lead to him being Kaprizov 2.0.

Good points. I’d add we could use one more middle six guy right now.

 

[bleedgreen]

2 things can be true at once:

1) the path these guys are taking is the one they'd need to take to become superstars
2) there is a long way to go for either of these guys to become superstars

I agree. I don’t think anyone has said these guys won’t or can’t get there.

 

[Svechhammer]

Artamonov is scoring which is great, but his best skill is still the motor and the forechecking. He isn’t dangling and scoring ridiculous highlight reel goals - he’s burying good chances and has chemistry with linemates.

That's literally all we need in a guy. Someone who has a motor, finds the right spot, and buries chances when the puck ends up on his stick. Probably the single biggest missing piece we have right now, to be honest. Roslovic, at the beginning of the year when he scored on almost everything that touched his stick, showed what a player like that can mean for us. If that's all that Arty brings, it completely changes our prospects offensively going forward.

 

[MinJaBen]

That's literally all we need in a guy. Someone who has a motor, finds the right spot, and buries chances when the puck ends up on his stick. Probably the single biggest missing piece we have right now, to be honest. Roslovic, at the beginning of the year when he scored on almost everything that touched his stick, showed what a player like that can mean for us. If that's all that Arty brings, it completely changes our prospects offensively going forward.

Sounds like a Martinook clone more than a Kaprizov.

 

[bleedgreen]

That's literally all we need in a guy. Someone who has a motor, finds the right spot, and buries chances when the puck ends up on his stick. Probably the single biggest missing piece we have right now, to be honest. Roslovic, at the beginning of the year when he scored on almost everything that touched his stick, showed what a player like that can mean for us. If that's all that Arty brings, it completely changes our prospects offensively going forward.

He was a great pick from the get go. “Safe” in that his floor seems to be something we could really use, but it’s hard to say what the ceiling is so maybe he’s way more - he’s got room to grow which makes it a real good pick to me. He could be Martinook or Carrier….but he could end up with more scoring like a Ruutu. That would be a pretty amazing pick in the second round. If he’s “just” a Martinook that’s still a hell of a second rounder in my book.

@MinJaBen - you beat me to it with Martinook.

 

[Svechhammer]

He was a great pick from the get go. “Safe” in that his floor seems to be something we could really use, but it’s hard to say what the ceiling is so maybe he’s way more - he’s got room to grow which makes it a real good pick to me. He could be Martinook or Carrier….but he could end up with more scoring like a Ruutu. That would be a pretty amazing pick in the second round. If he’s “just” a Martinook that’s still a hell of a second rounder in my book.

@MinJaBen - you beat me to it with Martinook.

I mean hell, if we have a Martinook with a legit scoring touch that's a huge need filled for the franchise.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Sounds like a Martinook clone more than a Kaprizov.

Well at some point, Marty is going to age out. But, I’m hopeful Arty will deliver more.

 

[MinJaBen]

He was a great pick from the get go. “Safe” in that his floor seems to be something we could really use, but it’s hard to say what the ceiling is so maybe he’s way more - he’s got room to grow which makes it a real good pick to me. He could be Martinook or Carrier….but he could end up with more scoring like a Ruutu. That would be a pretty amazing pick in the second round. If he’s “just” a Martinook that’s still a hell of a second rounder in my book.

@MinJaBen - you beat me to it with Martinook.

If Rod were coaching a team of 12 Martinook clones as forwards, I bet they take at least half of the games played against the current team.

 

[LakeLivin]

2 things can be true at once:

1) the path these guys are taking is the one they'd need to take to become superstars
2) there is a long way to go for either of these guys to become superstars

The dilemma arises in how to quantify those things when discussing a possible trade? (which I believe is what kicked off this whole discussion, inclusion of Nikishin in a Tkachuk trade).

How do you value a guy who could legitimately become a superstar (one end of the spectrum) but where there is no guarantee that he will, or who could even flame out in the NHL (the other end)? Everyone's calculus is going to be different; I'd love to see how the Borg looks at it.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

There’s a difference between “thinking he’s a third pair guy” and “I’m not going to go overboard and just be happy we’re getting at least a third pair guy, and then be really happy when they are more”. I feel like you think you’re in a battle or something. There’s nothing wrong with not making huge predictions and just being happy we have a good prospect on the way. You want to go really strong with it. Cool. Mocking people who just want to be realistic until we know and see more seems like an interesting approach when we’re all on the same side.

Artamonov is scoring which is great, but his best skill is still the motor and the forechecking. He isn’t dangling and scoring ridiculous highlight reel goals - he’s burying good chances and has chemistry with linemates. I would absolutely take the same stance with him. We took him for the motor and that should translate. He was thought to be a likely middle six forward, and I’ll be pumped if he’s that. Not disappointed because this years production didn’t lead to him being Kaprizov 2.0.

ehh man it's really not personal or a battle and I guess it's more of a reaction to the takes (there are not many but they are out there, not just here but outside of HF too) that we should trade Nikishin than people who want us to keep him but are just tempering expectations. It's a hockey message board and we talk hockey and players, prospect, etc. I have pretty strong opinions about Nikishin so I share them. Maybe I wind up wrong, that happens more often than not lol and everyone is free to disagree. I don't think I've mocked anyone.

But rarely have I held opinions this strong. And I am very adamantly against trading him in any realistic trade out there -- there are very few players I'd consider him in a trade for and all of those players are basically untouchable (yeah yeah if Gretzky was traded any player can be, but it would be incredibly rare and requires very unique circumstances for those types of players to come available). Other than that I think it's fair for anyone to have lower expectations than me and I'm not trying to convince anyone not to. Honestly I won't even be upset or shocked if he does come over and his game doesn't translate as well as we hope and he winds up going back to Russia or however it plays out. But I do think his potential and odds of reaching that potential are both high enough that he is a player to be incredibly excited about and to not consider in any realistic trades, that's all.

 

[Stickpucker]

What if this kid turns into another Kirill the thrill? A man can dream?

Russian Pronger and now Kaprizov 2.0