2024/25 Trade Rumours, Speculation etc Thread

[Buffdog]

I'll continue to call them spoiled when the vast majority of people don't have the privilege of making millions of dollars, can't afford housing, can't afford healthcare/insurance (in the USA). I don't feel a speck of sympathy for them, it doesn't mean I don't think they trained hard.

If someone earned their money, they aren't spoiled

An NHL player making millions of dollars isn't a "privilege". Again, that implies that something was handed to them

Someone living in a hut in Africa and drinking water out of a mud puddle could be calling you spoiled right now

Only 7% of the world owns a car. You probably have more money in your wallet than most people on earth make in a month. Maybe you should check your own privilege

 

[DRW204]

I'll continue to call them spoiled when the vast majority of people don't have the privilege of making millions of dollars, can't afford housing, can't afford healthcare/insurance (in the USA). I don't feel a speck of sympathy for them, it doesn't mean I don't think they trained hard.

I don't expect ppl to feel sympathy of millionaire athletes, or their billionaire owners. However, isn't the end of your post the distinction between spoiled vs not?

You work hard, train, perfect your craft, eat right, stay out of trouble etc for years on end to get to the point to be the top 1% of athletes, and making money as per what the economics of the leagues dictates.

Yes there's an aspects of genetics of whatnot too. But you still need to put in the work to make it.

 

[Adam da bomb]

If someone earned their money, they aren't spoiled

An NHL player making millions of dollars isn't a "privilege". Again, that implies that something was handed to them

Someone living in a hut in Africa and drinking water out of a mud puddle could be calling you spoiled right now

Only 7% of the world owns a car. You probably have more money in your wallet than most people on earth make in a month. Maybe you should check your own privilege

I mean they were given skills that 99.9% of people weren't born with. Much better reflexes and hand-eye-coordination than everyone else. No matter how hard you work you won't have those skills/abilities. The fact that they made the most of them through hard work like @RestlessYoungZero said is great.
Just like we were given something someone in an African hut wasn't given by the privilege of being born into the situation that we were born into. In addition, some people in our society are still born with more privilege than other people. It's up to each of us what we do with out privilege to make the most of it and try and make the world a slightly better place for everyone else.

This conversation is veering so far from hockey, but, what can you expect ,when millions of dollars are involved. Also nationalism, especially now the world is in a war, granted a trade war. (Whether trade wars can be called wars is another question.)

 

[Buffdog]

I said privileged not spoilt and already mentioned how hockey players work hard to make the most of what they are born with.

Spoilt and privileged are two different things. Yes, we all have different levels of privilege compared to someone else. A person born in North America is likely to live longer than someone born in Africa. Someone who is born into money has more opportunities than a poor person. Males historically have had more opportunities than women. Especially in sports where women's sports are often the first cut. Someone able-bodied has more opportunities etc.

What you do with those opportunities is what makes someone spoilt or unspoilt. Someone born with millions of dollars who spends their lifetime trying to improve the lot of other people isn't spoilt, but, they are still privileged.

Trump has mentioned multiple times about how he wants to annex Canada and make us the 51st state.

Ok, so we're on the same page. We both agree that NHL players aren't spoiled, which was my entire point in the first place. And we also agree that we're all privileged, which was also my point

As for Trump, idgaf what he says or does

 

[Adam da bomb]

Ok, so we're on the same page. We both agree that NHL players aren't spoiled, which was my entire point in the first place. And we also agree that we're all privileged, which was also my point

As for Trump, idgaf what he says or does

I agree with your sentiment, I'd add the caveat it's up to the individual hockey player what they do with that opportunity that determines whether they are spoilt or not.



I wish I didn't idgaf.

 

[Hunter368]

Lets not get into political chat please, stick to hockey related posts.

 

[raideralex99]

Ok, so we're on the same page. We both agree that NHL players aren't spoiled, which was my entire point in the first place. And we also agree that we're all privileged, which was also my point

As for Trump, idgaf what he says or does

wtf does privileged mean?
I’m sick of hearing that word.
If a little kid loves playing hockey and dreams of playing in the NHL one day so he works his ass off to get to the big leagues and that’s called privileged?
What happened to hard work gets you rewarded?

 

[tbcwpg]

wtf does privileged mean?
I’m sick of hearing that word.
If a little kid loves playing hockey and dreams of playing in the NHL one day so he works his ass off to get to the big leagues and that’s called privileged?
What happened to hard work gets you rewarded?

Hockey is expensive for families to put their kids into, especially if they're good and play at higher levels. The odds are already incredibly remote to even get to the ECHL level, let alone the NHL, and they're even more remote for a kid whose parents couldn't afford skating camp and AAA development tournaments etc etc etc.

 

[ps241]

Hockey is expensive for families to put their kids into, especially if they're good and play at higher levels. The odds are already incredibly remote to even get to the ECHL level, let alone the NHL, and they're even more remote for a kid whose parents couldn't afford skating camp and AAA development tournaments etc etc etc.

The era of the professionalization of kids sports is alive and well. Hockey is very expensive but far from alone. My buddy’s daughter was a very good fastball pitcher and they were into it for about $12,000 a year before parent travel costs (yes who knew ball was year round sport in Manitoba).

The funny thing is most parents living the dream talk about scholarships as a possible pay off for the path but that has never made sense financially to me. I think the important thing to do is just put your head down and support your kids path if you can afford it and assume the investment is 100% about the journey. There are way worse things to spend money on.

 

[Daximus]

The era of the professionalization of kids sports is alive and well. Hockey is very expensive but far from alone. My buddy’s daughter was a very good fastball pitcher and they were into it for about $12,000 a year before parent travel costs (yes who knew ball was year round sport in Manitoba).

The funny thing is most parents living the dream talk about scholarships as a possible pay off for the path but that has never made sense financially to me. I think the important thing to do is just put your head down and support your kids path if you can afford it and assume the investment is 100% about the journey. There are way worse things to spend money on.

It's not even just your typical stick and ball sports. Have you seen the cost of dance, cheerleading or acrobatics these days? My buddy spends more on his daughters dance than his sons tier hockey. My wife's friend forks out tens of thousands every year on cheerleading.

At the very least house leagues for some sports can be relatively cheap compared to the more competitive alternative but they also mean you will never be turning pro in any capacity by playing in them. Soccer is still among the more cheaper sports to play but even the more competitive leagues can get very expensive.

The truth of the matter is in North America that the road to being a professional athlete is generally paved by having parents who either make a good living or go into massive debt. It still requires a lot of hard work and refinement of skill but you are never going to make it anywhere without forking out tens of thousands, and in the case of hockey, likely hundreds of thousands of dollars. There's the stories you hear like how Patty Kanes parents spent $250k on him up to bantam. The cost of going pro is not cheap.

 

[Buffdog]

The era of the professionalization of kids sports is alive and well. Hockey is very expensive but far from alone. My buddy’s daughter was a very good fastball pitcher and they were into it for about $12,000 a year before parent travel costs (yes who knew ball was year round sport in Manitoba).

The funny thing is most parents living the dream talk about scholarships as a possible pay off for the path but that has never made sense financially to me. I think the important thing to do is just put your head down and support your kids path if you can afford it and assume the investment is 100% about the journey. There are way worse things to spend money on.

My daughter receives the max scholarship amount in U Sport hockey and I would have saved a ton of money by just paying her tuition out of pocket vs the amount I spent on her hockey over the years

 

[buggs]

The era of the professionalization of kids sports is alive and well. Hockey is very expensive but far from alone. My buddy’s daughter was a very good fastball pitcher and they were into it for about $12,000 a year before parent travel costs (yes who knew ball was year round sport in Manitoba).

The funny thing is most parents living the dream talk about scholarships as a possible pay off for the path but that has never made sense financially to me. I think the important thing to do is just put your head down and support your kids path if you can afford it and assume the investment is 100% about the journey. There are way worse things to spend money on.

Yup. This applies to pretty much all sports now for kids playing at a higher level. Hockey certainly fits that bill but basketball does too. Prep schools for the truly elite before getting to college. Absolutely they don't have the equipment requirements that hockey kids do, but that's where the difference ends. I think those costs transfer into any other sport where the kids travel for high end competition.

My daughter played basketball and volleyball at pretty high levels through middle and high school. Eventually played CIS volleyball. I would often have discussions with hockey parents who would bemoan the cost of hockey and I thought geez, I wonder how much I'm paying out. I kept track and still have the Excel sheet:
The volleyball alone costs for 13U (first real year of club volleyball) were $5700.
14U - $8700
15U - $9100
16U - $11300
17U - $8700
18U - $8700

Those costs don't count parental travel and hotel costs either. Just hers. $52, 200. Tons of memories for her and us, 1 AAU gold medal in basketball and 2 club championships, 1 volleyball national championship, 2 silvers, 1 bronze, 1 4th place finish 1 top 8 finish all volleyball. A crap ton of lesser tournament championships.

From 13U to 16U she was playing both volleyball and basketball. 17/18U only volleyball. She did get some very nice D2 offers but the costs remained prohibitive to send her to the U.S. to play (along with our every tumbling CAD) so she played CIS; not good enough for D1. Scholarships are not nearly so generous in Canada and she actually got more from academic scholarships than from the sport related scholarship. Most Canadian schools have caps on the amount given and few give tuition waivers.

Had she not gone away to school for volleyball and not played sports at a high level we'd have been much further ahead financially.

The truly elite kids without money will likely find a way, probably through the sport supporting them. But for every 1 that gets support I'd guess 5 or more don't get that opportunity. So yeah, there's an aspect there that is highly dependent on the parents ability to pay. But remember that ability to pay doesn't guarantee the success of the athlete, only their own work does that.

My advice to parents would be if you can afford it, help them follow their dreams. Once they stop loving it, let them stop no matter how much money you've put in. It's about the journey and the fun along the way, what they learn, the friendships they make. Don't buy into the notion they have to attend all the camps, they don't. Don't forget to let them be kids.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Sports is going the way of the Nepo Babies. I can't remember the last time I saw a poorer family in competitive hockey when the kid is 12+. Maybe Micheal Ferland when the parents got together to cover his AAA midget costs

 

[Daximus]

Sports is going the way of the Nepo Babies. I can't remember the last time I saw a poorer family in competitive hockey when the kid is 12+. Maybe Micheal Ferland when the parents got together to cover his AAA midget costs

Yeah there's the odd case like Cheechoo or Ferland where the community bands together to help a kids family out and they end up going pro but those are few and far between. Plenty of kids get assistance to play but more often than not it's mostly for house league, very few of the kids in assistance programs get their way through AAA or a hockey school payed for.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Sports is going the way of the Nepo Babies. I can't remember the last time I saw a poorer family in competitive hockey when the kid is 12+. Maybe Micheal Ferland when the parents got together to cover his AAA midget costs

Arts are also going the way of Nepo. I mean just like in the sports the truly brilliant break through, but, in order to pursue the arts it sure helps if you have connections as well as the money to spend on your art so that you can devote a large chunk of time to it and not get paid for many years, before, you are eventually able to develop to a level that someone may or may not pay you.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Yeah there's the odd case like Cheechoo or Ferland where the community bands together to help a kids family out and they end up going pro but those are few and far between. Plenty of kids get assistance to play but more often than not it's mostly for house league, very few of the kids in assistance programs get their way through AAA or a hockey school payed for.

It's tough, most people will never be good enough to play professional sports so do you give all your support to one kid in the community or do you divide it and provide opportunities for 2 kids hoping they can gain the benefits sports have to offer (hard work, leadership skills, healthy living etc.)

Jamie Oliverio is a great example of an athlete who isn't spoilt. He could be the highest paid player in the CFL, but, there was an article about how he and his girlfriend dedicate their off-time to rescuing stray dogs in South America.

 

[Daximus]

It's tough, most people will never be good enough to play professional sports so do you give all your support to one kid in the community or do you divide it and provide opportunities for 2 kids hoping they can gain the benefits sports have to offer (hard work, leadership skills, healthy living etc.)

Yeah for the cost of 1 kid to play AAA you can likely fund multiple kids to play in the local house league, make use of donated equipment and the travel costs are obviously much lower. But then that generally furthers the divide between the haves and have nots. Those that can afford to send their kid to a top tier hockey school program or fund their way through AAA, plus get them to multiple hockey camps over the offseason, get them additional ice time and coaching will have a massive leg up on those that can't. That divide has never been higher than it is today and it continues to widen. Gone are the days of some farm kid getting discovered playing in some low level league and being given a chance. You want to get noticed you better be playing in a top tier AAA or school program.

 

[cbcwpg]

This is O.T. , but since people are discussing the cost of hockey, give this a read...

'They'll hold you over a barrel': How NHL team's execs milked youth hockey families for profit

Families paid thousands in unnecessary hotel fees to play in Dallas Stars youth hockey tournaments. Three Stars executives took a cut of the profits.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Daximus]

Arts are also going the way of Nepo. I mean just like in the sports the truly brilliant break through, but, in order to pursue the arts it sure helps if you have connections as well as the money to spend on your art so that you can devote a large chunk of time to it and not get paid for many years, before, you are eventually able to develop to a level that someone may or may not pay you.

That really goes for the corporate world too honestly. It's much easier to get your foot in the door when your schooling and living is paid for and you can graduate with no debt, then your family can afford to feed and house you while you work for that unpaid internship while the kid who just graduated with thousands of dollars in debt has to take a paying job wherever they can which means they likely are somewhere with less opportunity to advance and make connections.

 

[Adam da bomb]

That really goes for the corporate world too honestly. It's much easier to get your foot in the door when your schooling and living is paid for and you can graduate with no debt, then your family can afford to feed and house you while you work for that unpaid internship while the kid who just graduated with thousands of dollars in debt has to take a paying job wherever they can which means they likely are somewhere with less opportunity to advance and make connections.

It probably goes for all of society, there is just the belief that the arts and sports are supposed to be "more pure" than the rest of society. Which really isn't the case.

 

[Daximus]

It probably goes for all of society, there is just the belief that the arts and sports are supposed to be "more pure" than the rest of society. Which really isn't the case.

Yeah things are really just set up for those with privilege to get ahead faster and easier. If you're not born into money you have to work harder from the get go to make it anywhere and in 99% of cases even that won't be enough. Hockey is probably one of the most egregious examples in sports because the barrier to entry is already out of reach for a sizable chunk of the population and even if you can afford the cost of entry you aren't even close to the cost of entry for the competitive level where the only hope of going pro is.

 

[Buffdog]

Yeah things are really just set up for those with privilege to get ahead faster and easier. If you're not born into money you have to work harder from the get go to make it anywhere and in 99% of cases even that won't be enough. Hockey is probably one of the most egregious examples in sports because the barrier to entry is already out of reach for a sizable chunk of the population and even if you can afford the cost of entry you aren't even close to the cost of entry for the competitive level where the only hope of going pro is.

I think I read that on average, the amount of money an average NHLer's family spent on their youth hockey career is $330,000 (and that was probably 15 years ago)

Based on the odds of making it to the show, you're better off spending that $330,000 on 6/49 tickets

There's a great book about this called "Selling the Dream" if anyone is really interested

 

[Daximus]

I think I read that on average, the amount of money an average NHLer's family spent on their youth hockey career is $330,000 (and that was probably 15 years ago)

Based on the odds of making it to the show, you're better off spending that $330,000 on 6/49 tickets

There's a great book about this called "Selling the Dream" if anyone is really interested

Yeah I think a lot of parents get that delusion that their kid is great. I know people that spent obscene amounts of money on their mediocre kid. If you took their word for it their kid was the best and it was everyone elses fault on the team why they continually failed, their kid just needed to change teams and it would be better so they moved to another city and low and behold their kid still sucks. They were very well off so it really didn't effect them to much but they were convinced their kid was good enough and spent untold amounts of money on camps, nutrition plans, coaching and schooling to give their kid every chance.

Parents are often delusional about how good their kids are and many who really can't afford it sink thousands and thousands of dollars into their child just to see them come out the other side with nothing but debt and you have to wonder if their kid would have had just as much fun playing house league, would they have made memories that would be just as cherished, would they have learned the same life lessons for much cheaper?

 

[WolfHouse]

Deep thoughts with jack handy day today...

 

[buggs]

Yeah I think a lot of parents get that delusion that their kid is great. I know people that spent obscene amounts of money on their mediocre kid. If you took their word for it their kid was the best and it was everyone elses fault on the team why they continually failed, their kid just needed to change teams and it would be better so they moved to another city and low and behold their kid still sucks. They were very well off so it really didn't effect them to much but they were convinced their kid was good enough and spent untold amounts of money on camps, nutrition plans, coaching and schooling to give their kid every chance.

Parents are often delusional about how good their kids are and many who really can't afford it sink thousands and thousands of dollars into their child just to see them come out the other side with nothing but debt and you have to wonder if their kid would have had just as much fun playing house league, would they have made memories that would be just as cherished, would they have learned the same life lessons for much cheaper?

Fun. What the hell has that got to do with sports (I'm being facetious, but I'm also not)?

 

[Whileee]

Some perspective: on average only about 1 Manitoba hockey player in each birth year makes it to the NHL, at most. So unless your kid is the very best in his age group in the province, he's not going to make a life long career from hockey and will need to develop other capabilities.