Speculation: 2024/25 Trade Rumours, Speculation etc Thread

[TS Quint]

I think if the Jets shipped out every prospect who didn't show something in their first 30 games they wouldn't have much left, certainly Scheif would've been shipped out.

Vesalainen got 53 games in one season, Stanley's received god knows how many. I think it's in the Jets best interest to put their high end draft picks in positions to succeed, not just say "well you have to earn it". How's he supposed to earn it if he's A. great in the AHL B. his NHL runs end at 10 games before getting sent back?

I'm not saying I think he's going to be a top end defender, but I think the rational position is that we don't really know, and that the Jets can afford and will benefit from finding out... and that 10 games doesn't really tell us anything either way.

I think you respond D draft to the wrong person.

Scheifele didn't demand a trade, he earned his spot.

I don't recall Vesaleinen demanding a trade. He got a similar run as Ville and Stan.

Ville isn't in the A...... I'm not sure what you are talking about. He is with the Jets getting opportunities. He has to make the most of them. So far even the most hardened of Ville fans in this thread are much like you, they can't point to anything he has done well on a consistent basis to say he has earned anything. Outside of "remember that one 20 foot pass that got touched by 3 other players and Vilardi made an incredible pass and they scored, well that was pretty much all Ville" types non sense. They just want hand outs for Ville.

 

[voyageur]

I just don't see a way forward with him, especially over the next couple of years. If he was 21 it would be another story but his window is starting to close.

Arniel has shown that he defers to size (which I don't totally disagree with considering some of the teams we play).

I still hope he continues to improve to the point where he's an everyday player but that likelyhood shrinks with every passing month.

Ville as a hockey player sees the depth chart. Every player has some idea where they fit. He could have signed a one year deal, leave it all on the table this year. For more money next year. Or requested a trade in the offseason, since the dollars on the table were some indication of how the management and coaches saw the players on the depth chart.

Dimitri Kuzmin is the next guy on the LH depth chart. He can't even stay in as a regular on the Moose.

It would be a real achievement for Freij to get to the Jets by the end of Ville's contract, so from a team perspective that's asset management, from draft and develop.

He's behind Stanley on the left side, at least at home. Arniel has shown some apprehension playing Stanley on the road, already.

He's playing his offside because of injury and opportunity. Probably the best skater the Jets have on the right side until Salomonsson pushes through. Maybe by next season Ville is playing with Salomonsson if he gets to a level coaches are comfortable with. There's no certainty in what his future beholds, but it's no more certain anywhere else. Where's he going to go where he is guaranteed success? Pittsburgh? There's such a fine line between being an NHL player and being an AHL star, I'm not sure Ville is ready to cross it yet for greener pastures. I really hope Josh Morrissey can teach him a lot of things that help him become a better hockey player.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Ville is an offensive d-man with zero points in ten games. If you're an offensive d-man you need to score if you want to stay in the lineup. It's really that simple. He's "okay" defensively but that ain't gonna do it. Injuries and prior roster decisions by management may very well have played a role in delaying Ville's development but it's the NHL, he's gotta battle through it and find a way to contribute or he's not gonna make it. Maybe it's not fair but it's reality. I still think he's got a great future but it's clear he's on the bubble. The only person that can make it happen at this point is Ville himself and he's gotta find a way to get on the scoreboard.

Yes. But that is where the usage issue comes in. I think he is responding to the coaching by trying to demonstrate that he can be trusted to play D. He is being too tentative to score. The cure for that is 10-20 consecutive games.

Bottom line I agree with you though. It is up to him to make it happen.

 

[Whileee]

Seems like LeBrun has linked us to Ristolinan. Why!!! He's a bad dmen signed to a bad contract for a number more years.

Ristolainen has had a resurgence in Philly. I could see him as a partner for Morrissey, especially with DeMelo struggling.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It's so difficult for fans on here to say hey maybe Big Stan could help the PK this game. He's played more there than Ville has, and we are missing two top PKers. But it's just Heinola contributed to wins so now must be cemented in his role, which was given to him in Stanley's absence. It's not Declan Chisholm if Ville Heinola has already played 10 games at this point which last year Chisholm had played 2, and didn't play for another month. The fact Heinola is signed to a 2 year one way contract, whereas Chisholm was on a 2 way one year deal last year should be some indication that both the coach and organization have different assessments of these 2 players.

Heinola hasn't proven he could be a top 4, but I was the poster who said at the start of the year that I thought his ceiling could be to play with Morrissey in some offensive zone situations. So far his ceiling is 3rd pairing, and not in a regular penalty killing role. If nothing else the Jets got Miller some rest to play Ville. Now with another injury he has an opportunity to play in some games, probably on the offside of Stanley.

Stanley is not a great PK'er. Probably better than Ville by a fair bit though. PK is where his reach is most valuable and he does block a lot of shots.

I don't mind PK as a reason for choosing Stanley. Jets still need to win games.

 

[voyageur]

Ristolainen has had a resurgence in Philly. I could see him as a partner for Morrissey, especially with DeMelo struggling.
View attachment 952395View attachment 952396

Is De Melo struggling? +10 in last 7 games doesn't seem like a struggle.

If you wanted to pair him with Heinola, at least you'd have a guy who likes to fight Nazem Kadri.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I just forgot to read Illegal Curve this morning. Hopefully the announcement that Heinola is playing ends all bitching, and fans can continue to decide which guys on the 3rd pairing are worse. Or maybe they have a good game. And these boards find nothing to complain about. Ok, well maybe less to complain about.

They better win or the Stanley supporters will be unbearable here tomorrow.

Honestly I am a little torn here (just a little). I want to see Ville get a good stretch of regular play - on his strong side. But I can see a rationale for spotting Stanley in here and there too, depending on the opponent and our injuries.

Its such a tired and old game to villainize all these 'bogeymen' fans and act like youre a more 'pure' fan

The other way of looking at this is that heinola.playing completely invalidates your last 24 hours of posting about how torontos forecheck isnt a big deal and that we need size against ottawa...

So maybe arniel sees something we dont haha

Or maybe Stanley tweaked something?

 

[Jack7222]

I think you respond D draft to the wrong person.

Scheifele didn't demand a trade, he earned his spot.

I don't recall Vesaleinen demanding a trade. He got a similar run as Ville and Stan.

Ville isn't in the A...... I'm not sure what you are talking about. He is with the Jets getting opportunities. He has to make the most of them. So far even the most hardened of Ville fans in this thread are much like you, they can't point to anything he has done well on a consistent basis to say he has earned anything. Outside of "remember that one 20 foot pass that got touched by 3 other players and Vilardi made an incredible pass and they scored, well that was pretty much all Ville" types non sense. They just want hand outs for Ville.

I honestly don't know what you're talking about or how you read my post and got "hardened Ville fan". I'm happy he's getting an opportunity, and hope it continues to the point where we can all accurately judge this player, for Ville's sake as well as the sake of the team who spent valuable draft capital to get him on the team. What are the "hand outs" people want for Heinola exactly? To have our first round draft pick be given more than 10 games in the league he was drafted for?

 

[surixon]

I think if the Jets shipped out every prospect who didn't show something in their first 30 games they wouldn't have much left, certainly Scheif would've been shipped out.

Vesalainen got 53 games in one season, Stanley's received god knows how many. I think it's in the Jets best interest to put their high end draft picks in positions to succeed, not just say "well you have to earn it". How's he supposed to earn it if he's A. great in the AHL B. his NHL runs end at 10 games before getting sent back?

I'm not saying I think he's going to be a top end defender, but I think the rational position is that we don't really know, and that the Jets can afford and will benefit from finding out... and that 10 games doesn't really tell us anything either way.

Edit: all this has been said a million times anyway. Just hoping we see this guy get a bit of rope and find out what he is capable of, since he's one of our draft picks and all, and if he succeeds the team succeeds.

I agree with a lot of what your saying but I also think this org can be to stubborn with its top prospects and hold them too long.

Look at Vesalainen, instead of dealing him while he still had some value, they elected to try to deconstruct and reconstruct his entire game to try to get him to play a depth role. Why bother, you can find third and fourth line wingers fairly easily. By doing so they lost an asset for nothing.

With Ville once it became apparent that the org was set on a one, two and three of JoMo, Snerg, and Tree they should have been looking for a taker for Ville. Instead we've kept him into his waiver years where his value is likely next to nothing and are trying to force him into playing his offside here. Once again trying to force a high pick into a role Instead of trading them while they have value and we know through some reports that teams once highly valued him.

I hope we don't see similar with Brad and Chibrikov over the next few years. Either create a pathway or move them while their value is high.

 

[WolfHouse]

Ristolainen has had a resurgence in Philly. I could see him as a partner for Morrissey, especially with DeMelo struggling.
View attachment 952395View attachment 952396

Thats interesting - I had totally written him off.... IMAGINE this board if we actually had traded ehlers for him haha

Real shutdown role in Philly...
Jomo-DeMelo
Samberg-Risto
Fleury/Miller-Pionk

Suddenly thats a very well-rounded top six - you could run samberg-Risto and just wear down opponents top line - then Jomo and Pionk are left with more offence options

 

[Jack7222]

I agree with a lot of what your saying but I also think this org can be to stubborn with its top prospects and hold them too long.

Look at Vesalainen, instead of dealing him while he still had some value, they elected to try to deconstruct and reconstruct his entire game to try to get him to play a depth role. Why bother, you can find third and fourth line wingers fairly easily. By doing so they lost an asset for nothing.

With Ville once it became apparent that the org was set on a one, two and three of JoMo, Snerg, and Tree they should have been looking for a taker for Ville. Instead we've kept him into his waiver years where his value is likely next to nothing and are trying to force him into playing his offside here. Once again trying to force a high pick into a role Instead of trading them while they have value and we know through some reports that teams once highly valued him.

I hope we don't see similar with Brad and Chibrikov over the next few years. Either create a pathway or move them while their value is high.

Yes, 100% agree with this. I think the org gets stuck waiting around for things to happen too often. It feels limp. I don't care about Heinola per se but what are the org doing here exactly with this player? Like people are saying "Heinola needs to earn it and the org doesn't owe him anything" as if the org doesn't also lose if Ville loses. I wish the org had less risk aversion and more willingness to pull triggers the moment they figured out what they wanted.

 

[surixon]

Yes, 100% agree with this. I think the org gets stuck waiting around for things to happen too often. It feels limp. I don't care about Heinola per se but what are the org doing here exactly with this player? Like people are saying "Heinola needs to earn it and the org doesn't owe him anything" as if the org doesn't also lose if Ville loses. I wish the org had less risk aversion and more willingness to pull triggers the moment they figured out what they wanted.

Agreed, they need to be quicker in making calls on players. You are correct the org losses if they lose a first round asset in Ville for nothing. If you don't think he is going to help the team then move him out. You can find bottom pairing dmen easily cough Fleury cough.

 

[macmaroon]

Forgot your meds today.

Thanks for reminding me...

 

[WolfHouse]

Took a quick look at our drafting and its pretty grim...

2017 - Samberg then nothing
2018 - Gus then nothing
2019 - Ville then nothing
2020 - Perfetti then nothing - again Perfetti is good but so are most the next say 10 picks after him... for our team needs long term he was not the best choice
2021 - Chibrikov then nothing
2022 - Rutger/Lambert - but you look at that draft and Bischel, Miroschenko, Kulich, Pickering all in the NHL and competing well - I still have hopes for this draft though - but AGAIN its a solid first round where almost anyone picked between rutger and Lambert would be a solid find

Have higher hopes moving forward from 2022 but man, thats grim... one 'find' in Samberg and then otherwise its essentially cant miss picks (Perfetti, Rutger/Yager, Lambert)

Jets are FAR from the scouting team they were - I wouldn't put us in the top 10 or maybe 15

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Are they, though? It's clear that the Winnipeg fanbase has turned on Stan, and are parrotting the same things they read by whomever over and over. What seems to be missing is objective assessment (which includes positives about Stanley's play), and a complete lack of acknowledgement or understanding that a player can actually improve (unless that player is a fanboy fave like Ville).

The thing about evaluating players from a distance, and evaluating them as a fan, is that you (not you specifically) are far less equipped or informed to make a superior evaluation than those who are professionals in the space.

People can call that appeal to authority but it is simply a fact.

Yes, the coaches are more able and more informed to make evaluations. No one denies that. But it sometimes happens that people can be too close to see as clearly as someone else who is observing from a distance. There is group think here and also in management, just for one thing. Various biases enter into the picture.

Usually the pros will make better choices than the fans will but we have all seen clear-cut exceptions to that rule.

This is a board where we fans can express and discuss those ideas and opinions of ours that may differ with those of management. If all we do is endorse all of the pro actions what is left to talk about? Seriously, what?

 

[WolfHouse]

Thanks for reminding me...

I have an alarm on my phone that shakes titties at me when its time to microdose

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Or Ville could earn it. This guy isn't the centre of the universe. He doesn't deserve anything handed to him. I agree with the other poster. If his agent starts coming with demands to the Jets he should be on the next bus out of town.

Again we have posters claiming the Jets are trying to put a square peg in a round hole and others who are demanding a square peg in a round hole. The just want it to be their square peg being jammed in.

Nobody is asking for Ville to have anything handed to him. No one is saying he is the centre of the Universe. All people are asking for is that he be given a shot under reasonably favourable conditions to see if he can earn it. Find out if he is a square peg or a round one. If he gets that and doesn't succeed then let him go.

 

[DRW204]

Oh, do you not watch the games? You just check box scores and analytics?

I'd say he's been looking more comfortable on his natural side. He's going to need some more reps.

A handful of games here and there, coming off an injury, mostly on his off side, and at the tail end of a long road trip isn't really going to give you an accurate picture.

But like I said, the Jets don't really have room for him. They've built the team a certain way and the lesson they learned from last year's playoffs is - apparently - we need more Stanley and less skill. Put him on waivers. Someone might pick him up and he can have a fair shake.

Make sure you keep this energy with other Jet players and related opinions.

He's had a fair shake on this team given what he's shown on ice. Stanley has def been given a longer rope, but it's not like heinola has done much to deserve more

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Seems like LeBrun has linked us to Ristolinan. Why!!! He's a bad dmen signed to a bad contract for a number more years.

The tweet says Risto's improved play this year has changed the picture. Sounds like an excess of recency bias to me, but that is what it said.

2 more years at 5.1 mil. Could remove the need to play Stanley for size & physicality. Could step in for Pionk for less money. Save us from too much, too long an extension of Pionk. He used to score at Pionk levels. Hasn't in recent years though. Does his D play become decent if he surrenders his scoring? IDK.

If we are dealing with Philly I would rather look at Frost than Risto.

 

[WolfHouse]

Love how the argument is continuing even with both Stan and Ville playing tonight haha

Personally Id love it if Stan became half of Chara - but the odds are heavily heavily against this... same as I'd love it if Heinola became the offensive D we thought he was... again odds are very low

This isn't an argument about 'third pairing' its about why the fk are our first round picks taking five years to develop into fringe NHLers... while our castoffs are getting 17-20 mins a game

I'll go back to Kova and Chisholm again - these are the ONLY two mid-round picks that we have 'hit' on - and we developed them for other teams... THAT is the problem.

Its not like its the Kova fan club or Heinola fan club - its WHY is our scouting/development so 'off' for the last EIGHT years...

 

[Gm0ney]

Make sure you keep this energy with other Jet players and related opinions.

He's had a fair shake on this team given what he's shown on ice. Stanley has def been given a longer rope, but it's not like heinola has done much to deserve more

He's not a good fit with the way the team is set up, as I said before. There's 0.5 slots for a 3rd pair left shooting offensive defenseman.

If you can't get a fair shake unless you prove yourself and you can't prove yourself unless you get a fair shake, then you're kind of screwed.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Thats interesting - I had totally written him off.... IMAGINE this board if we actually had traded ehlers for him haha

Real shutdown role in Philly...
Jomo-DeMelo
Samberg-Risto
Fleury/Miller-Pionk

Suddenly thats a very well-rounded top six - you could run samberg-Risto and just wear down opponents top line - then Jomo and Pionk are left with more offence options

It depends on whether or not Risto is for real or just some kind of mirage. How often do players finally 'get it' at 29 YO? Is he responding to Torts?

That sG chart shows that he bottomed out in 2022 and has been improving steadilly ever since. That would support it being real. That would open up a number of possible pairings.

 

[gojetsgo]

It depends on whether or not Risto is for real or just some kind of mirage. How often do players finally 'get it' at 29 YO? Is he responding to Torts?

That sG chart shows that he bottomed out in 2022 and has been improving steadilly ever since. That would support it being real. That would open up a number of possible pairings.

it depends, did the player previously come from buffalo?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

it depends, did the player previously come from buffalo?

Ha! Good question. Looking at that sG chart he has been steadily improving for 3 years, not just suddenly getting it at 29. Actually he has turned 30 now.

Will Cozens rebound to a 70 pt C as soon as he is traded?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Here's a bit of speculation for the speculation thread.

Cozens +
to Flames for
Andersson

I don't know what the + will be and I don't know how they will persuade Andersson to waive. Let those highly paid GMs figure out the details.