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gaucholoco3

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So why would that comment about Smith mean more than what coach has said about Gush playing the best he's ever seen? Neither comment explicitly speak to their odds of making the team.
One speaks to an organizational philosophy about having an enforcer on the team and the other is praising a player.

You can continue to believe Gushchin will make the roster. I just think that is wishful thinking and it won’t happen unless a top 6 player is hurt.
 

Pinkfloyd

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One speaks to an organizational philosophy about having an enforcer on the team and the other is praising a player.

You can continue to believe Gushchin will make the roster. I just think that is wishful thinking and it won’t happen unless a top 6 player is hurt.
I think both are praising players for different things rather than some organizational philosophy but even if they were speaking to that, the Sharks have two other guys slated to make the roster that fill that sort of role. I have no reason to believe that a guy who has only managed to play half the season once in his five years in the NHL has secured a roster spot because the coach liked that he responded for Celebrini. Again, Gushchin does not need to be top six or not in the NHL when the norm is three scoring lines.
 

Hodge

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I think both are praising players for different things rather than some organizational philosophy but even if they were speaking to that, the Sharks have two other guys slated to make the roster that fill that sort of role. I have no reason to believe that a guy who has only managed to play half the season once in his five years in the NHL has secured a roster spot because the coach liked that he responded for Celebrini. Again, Gushchin does not need to be top six or not in the NHL when the norm is three scoring lines.
Gushchin still on the 5th line even with Celebrini out. I'm sure that means nothing too lol
 

Pinkfloyd

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Gushchin still on the 5th line even with Celebrini out. I'm sure that means nothing too lol
It doesn't unless you're also willing to say that Smith, Graf, and Cardwell are also on the outs when one of them is making the roster with or without Celebrini. Because they were all on the 5th line too.
 
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Hodge

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It doesn't unless you're also willing to say that Smith, Graf, and Cardwell are also on the outs when one of them is making the roster with or without Celebrini. Because they were all on the 5th line too.
They are all also on the outs. Givani is likeliest to make the roster but they could just waive him and go with 13 forwards and 3 goalies if Askarov is healthy.
 

Pinkfloyd

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They are all also on the outs. Givani is likeliest to make the roster but they could just waive him and go with 13 forwards and 3 goalies if Askarov is healthy.
It makes no sense to say Givani is the likeliest when everyone knows he can't stay in the lineup and we have guys who will be doing what he's there to do. There's no chance that they carry three goalies. Either Askarov gets sent down or Vanecek gets waived and reassigned.
 
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timorous me

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One speaks to an organizational philosophy about having an enforcer on the team and the other is praising a player.

You can continue to believe Gushchin will make the roster. I just think that is wishful thinking and it won’t happen unless a top 6 player is hurt.
Also, Givani is the kind of guy who fits as an extra forward who will occasionally step in on the 4th line. You don't want to treat someone like Gushchin like that.

Sure, you could play Gushchin on the third line, but it's also a simple matter of numbers. They're not going to waive anyone currently in the bottom six to find a spot for him--those are NHL players, whether we like watching them play or not--so he's going to have to wait for injuries/trades to get an opportunity. All he can really do is play his best with the 'Cuda and continue to force his way into Grier's and Warsofsky's thinking.
 

Pinkfloyd

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Also, Givani is the kind of guy who fits as an extra forward who will occasionally step in on the 4th line. You don't want to treat someone like Gushchin like that.

Sure, you could play Gushchin on the third line, but it's also a simple matter of numbers. They're not going to waive anyone currently in the bottom six to find a spot for him--those are NHL players, whether we like watching them play or not--so he's going to have to wait for injuries/trades to get an opportunity. All he can really do is play his best with the 'Cuda and continue to force his way into Grier's and Warsofsky's thinking.
The only person that has to be waived to make room for Gushchin, Graf, or Cardwell is Givani Smith and he will pass through waivers. And even if he didn't, Goodrow and Kunin do an adequate enough of a job filling his specialized role for the purposes of avenging our young players that take shots.
 
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Hodge

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It makes no sense to say Givani is the likeliest when everyone knows he can't stay in the lineup and we have guys who will be doing what he's there to do. There's no chance that they carry three goalies. Either Askarov gets sent down or Vanecek gets waived and reassigned.
What makes no sense is having Gushchin or Cardwell sit in the press box not playing games when Givani is perfect for that role.
 

Pinkfloyd

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What makes no sense is having Gushchin or Cardwell sit in the press box not playing games when Givani is perfect for that role.
Any of those kids making the roster should be playing over Dellandrea and Kostin at this stage.
 

Hodge

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There is nothing wrong with Gush on the 3rd line regardless of how you think a team should play
The purpose of our bottom six this season should be to soak up the toughest matchups and make life as easy as possible on Celebrini and Smith. Gushchin can’t play that role and we don’t need to adjust our strategy just to cater to a one dimensional smurf winger.
 
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Pinkfloyd

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The purpose of our bottom six this season should be to soak up the toughest matchups and make life as easy as possible on Celebrini and Smith. Gushchin can’t play that role and we don’t need to adjust our strategy just to cater to a one dimensional smurf winger.
Which is done by having a competitive 3rd line in terms of being able to possess the puck and create scoring chances not just submit to getting caved in when they're out there and still putting your rookie centers in an uphill climb after those shifts. And yes, Gushchin can play that role because anyone can play the role of taking the toughest matchups and fail. Depth lines still need playmakers.
 
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CupfortheSharks

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Which is done by having a competitive 3rd line in terms of being able to possess the puck and create scoring chances not just submit to getting caved in when they're out there and still putting your rookie centers in an uphill climb after those shifts. And yes, Gushchin can play that role because anyone can play the role of taking the toughest matchups and fail. Depth lines still need playmakers.
You think it would be good for the Sharks and good for Gushchin to be played with Goodrow and Wennberg against the other teams best forwards? I definitely prefer a checking line to play the hard minutes so Celebrini doesn’t have to and I don’t think Gushchin belongs on that line.
 
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Pinkfloyd

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You think it would be good for the Sharks and good for Gushchin to be played with Goodrow and Wennberg against the other teams best forwards? I definitely prefer a checking line to play the hard minutes so Celebrini doesn’t have to and I don’t think Gushchin belongs on that line.
It's better than the other options. If it's not Gushchin, it's either Kunin, Grundstrom, Dellandrea, or Kostin. Are any of them with Wennberg and Goodrow going to do anything but get the brakes beat off them? Any checking line you throw out there in that light is not going to be effective at all. Goodrow is not an effective defensive player at even strength. None of the other options have shown any sort of effectiveness at such a role and aren't likely to do well either. This is why throwing Celebrini and Smith to the wolves and going to a 3rd line of scraps to try and take whatever tough minutes you can manage at home will largely be ineffective. They should make Celebrini's line the 2nd line and Smith's line the 3rd line and put the Lund line back together to take the tougher matchups. They would legitimately stand a chance at ending their shifts outside the defensive zone at a reasonable rate to give more favorable opportunities to the rookie centers.
 
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Star Platinum

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You think it would be good for the Sharks and good for Gushchin to be played with Goodrow and Wennberg against the other teams best forwards? I definitely prefer a checking line to play the hard minutes so Celebrini doesn’t have to and I don’t think Gushchin belongs on that line.
I have yet to see much evidence that any of the myriad bottom 6 forwards the Sharks have brought on are hard to play against. Calling them a checking line implies that some checking is going on.
 
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Cas

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I have yet to see much evidence that any of the myriad bottom 6 forwards the Sharks have brought on are hard to play against. Calling them a checking line implies that some checking is going on.
With the exception of Wennberg, our entire bottom six is composed of #13-14 forwards. They're going to be destroyed and give up just tons of goals.

But at least they're Big Strong Veteran Men who occasionally hit people. Obviously that makes them Hard To Play Against (tm).
 

CupfortheSharks

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It's better than the other options. If it's not Gushchin, it's either Kunin, Grundstrom, Dellandrea, or Kostin. Are any of them with Wennberg and Goodrow going to do anything but get the brakes beat off them? Any checking line you throw out there in that light is not going to be effective at all. Goodrow is not an effective defensive player at even strength. None of the other options have shown any sort of effectiveness at such a role and aren't likely to do well either. This is why throwing Celebrini and Smith to the wolves and going to a 3rd line of scraps to try and take whatever tough minutes you can manage at home will largely be ineffective. They should make Celebrini's line the 2nd line and Smith's line the 3rd line and put the Lund line back together to take the tougher matchups. They would legitimately stand a chance at ending their shifts outside the defensive zone at a reasonable rate to give more favorable opportunities to the rookie centers.
You could use the Lund line against the other teams best forwards. The trade off is that Celebrini and Smith get less talented wingers. With either a Grandlund or Wennberg centered match up line, Celebrini gets matched against their 2nd line and Smith against the 3rd. I don’t see how Wars is throwing the kids to the wolves. I also still don’t see a good spot for Gushchin. I don’t want another rookie on either Smith or Celebrini’s wing. Maybe later in the season but not to start.
 
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Pinkfloyd

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You could use the Lund line against the other teams best forwards. The trade off is that Celebrini and Smith get less talented wingers. With either a Grandlund or Wennberg centered match up line, Celebrini gets matched against their 2nd line and Smith against the 3rd. I don’t see how Wars is throwing the kids to the wolves. I also still don’t see a good spot for Gushchin. I don’t want another rookie on either Smith or Celebrini’s wing. Maybe later in the season but not to start.
I don't think matching during the regular season is all that effective of a strategy. This is supposed to be about development for Celebrini and Smith so they should just roll lines and let it play out. In that scenario, I would start with the Lund line as the top line, put whoever is playing the best with Celebrini and Toffoli, and have the two next best players with Smith. Right now, I feel like the best player to put with Celebrini may be Wennberg. After that, Grundstrom and Gushchin are the guys that stand out. Everyone else is pretty much coasting.

Under the matching scenario, I just don't see how you effectively do that with Celebrini. I think he's just too good to hide. Smith, on the other hand, looks like he will need time to grow into that role and they shouldn't just throw him in there when they don't have to. However way they decide to go, changing it up is still very likely as they should be trying a lot of different combinations to see what clicks. I care about finding chemistry more than I care about winning and losing or who is a rookie and who is a veteran.
 
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