2024-25 San Diego Gulls/Tulsa Oilers

[Hockey Duckie]

I think your harping on the NHL players thing a little too much. Zelly is too good for the AHL, and Verbeek sees more positives in his development being in a rotation before we eventually move Dumo closer to the deadline. Is that the best thing for his development, probably not, is it going to stop him from reaching his potential longterm, again probably not.

Harkins is with the big club because Johnston is on the roster and McGinn got hurt. If McGinn isn’t hurt, and you sign another harkins then you are taking spots away from Gaucher and co in the AHL. Speaking of Harkins, I think we all agree Paul Maurice is on of the best coaches in the league, here is some words he has about harkins.



You can try to play meaningful games “pushing” for the playoffs and care about development at the same time, it’s not a one or the other. The longer Dumo stays on the team, the more we care about trying to win this year over completely being developing our young and core, which is a good thing in my mind. Doesn’t mean it’s the best way, but it would be nice to try and build a more winning culture for next season.

Think Macro

Who said Zell needs to go down? See, that's called cherry picking for your own thoughts. Helleson can go back down and see if he can apply what he did in the NHL level at the AHL level, but in a top-4 role. Like I said, y'all cherry picking. Think macro.

So what you're saying is our roster is great at both levels (AHL and NHL) that you see no reason where Verbeek or the Gulls GM could have added a bit more talent to not only shelter the kids but also help them along in the AHL level to begin the season? If you don't agree with it, then what are you typing?! Why are we in the damned basement at both levels? Why the hell are we rotating youths at the NHL level? (The latter queries are rhetorical questions to make my macro point more poignant.)

I don't think anyone is happy with the situation of rotating youths. Now, if there's an injury to our current NHL d-man group, then we're going to call up another youth. We already have done that with calling up Hinds to be our 7th D on a road trip when both Fowler and Vaak were out due to injury (and before Helleson was called up).

Collecting a whole bunch of talents just to sprawl them out without proper guidance or tutelage to see who rises to the top isn't a great way to develop youths. Youths teaching youths shouldn't be any GM's mantra, but it is for Verbeek at both the AHL and NHL levels. All of our offensive youth forwards have been struggling b/c they have to teach themselves what to do in a Cronin system.

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Development is taking a backseat to Winning?

You wrote, "The longer Dumo stays on the team, the more we care about trying to win this year." That means putting the youth development on the backburner and be okay with the rotation. We currently have the fifth worst team in points in the league after 49 games played. We are currently the 4th worst team in points in the Western Conference.

What you're saying is the youth who is sitting in the press box gets to be the best cheerleader?

 

[mightyquack]

Who

Who ideally is his partner ? Zelly / Minty / LaCombe ?

Assuming he continues to develop, I would say he fits with any of them - he'll be your traditional stay at home defense first guy who can use the body well.

What's your scouting report on Hinds? Is he being groomed similarly to how Helleson was being groomed, such as an all-around d-man than just a shutdown role? Thx in adv for the response!

I don't think Hinds has the puck skills to be a two way guy (for what it's worth, I don't see Helleson as a two way guy at the NHL level either). Hinds pretty much has been rotated decently between partners, spent time with Warren as a shutdown pairing, some time with Luneau as the LD and other times with Heatherington as the RD. Either way, common factor is that he's typically the more defensive of the two, the exception being when he's with Warren where he tries to take the game on a bit more, but that's not really his game IMO.

I think Hinds is similar to Warren, however I don't think he uses his body as much as he can, however it is worth noting Hinds still has a bit of growing into his frame to do (he's giving up about 25 pounds to Warren). Skating is good for his size, maybe quicker then Warren in a straight line but a touch worse edge wise. Hinds can be panicky with the puck at times - especially under pressure, where he has a bad habit of just throwing it away without much thought, it's why I don't see much two way play in his future, strikes me as a defense first guy at the NHL level.

Personally I have him a touch below Warren, and to be fair he has a harder path into the NHL as I don't see him displacing any of Zellweger/Minty/LaCombe and I need to see a lot more of him at RD before thinking he can play there long term.

Mysak continues his strong production with a goal in the first.

He's been a pleasant surprise, hopefully he sticks around the Gulls as he's a good piece there. Him and Pasta have real good chemistry.

Kinda want to try him at 4C and try to get Harkins back down there

Gaucher should be the first option to try at 4C and it's not particularly close.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

Think Macro

Who said Zell needs to go down? See, that's called cherry picking for your own thoughts. Helleson can go back down and see if he can apply what he did in the NHL level at the AHL level, but in a top-4 role. Like I said, y'all cherry picking. Think macro.

So what you're saying is our roster is great at both levels (AHL and NHL) that you see no reason where Verbeek or the Gulls GM could have added a bit more talent to not only shelter the kids but also help them along in the AHL level to begin the season? If you don't agree with it, then what are you typing?! Why are we in the damned basement at both levels? Why the hell are we rotating youths at the NHL level? (The latter queries are rhetorical questions to make my macro point more poignant.)

I don't think anyone is happy with the situation of rotating youths. Now, if there's an injury to our current NHL d-man group, then we're going to call up another youth. We already have done that with calling up Hinds to be our 7th D on a road trip when both Fowler and Vaak were out due to injury (and before Helleson was called up).

Collecting a whole bunch of talents just to sprawl them out without proper guidance or tutelage to see who rises to the top isn't a great way to develop youths. Youths teaching youths shouldn't be any GM's mantra, but it is for Verbeek at both the AHL and NHL levels. All of our offensive youth forwards have been struggling b/c they have to teach themselves what to do in a Cronin system.

---

Development is taking a backseat to Winning?

You wrote, "The longer Dumo stays on the team, the more we care about trying to win this year." That means putting the youth development on the backburner and be okay with the rotation. We currently have the fifth worst team in points in the league after 49 games played. We are currently the 4th worst team in points in the Western Conference.

What you're saying is the youth who is sitting in the press box gets to be the best cheerleader?

I just can’t take you seriously when you say “Think Macro”, and then say “Why are we in the damned basement at both levels?”

Both our levels the past 2 seasons have had one of the 5 youngest rosters. Young rosters in most cases don’t win a lot of games.

Both teams have been focused on individual development plans for their young players, which is ….. thinking macro.

Ps : appreciate all the work you do with stats for our prospects, but for someone who complains constantly about people putting words in your mouth, you sure do it yourself quite a lot.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

do you think pastajov gets a look lost deadline?

I know he’s prob behind colangelo, nesterenko, and prob a guy like mysak…. But I feel like it would be nice to give him a game or few as a reward for his play and added motivation going into offseason

 

[mightyquack]

do you think pastajov gets a look lost deadline?

I know he’s prob behind colangelo, nesterenko, and prob a guy like mysak…. But I feel like it would be nice to give him a game or few as a reward for his play and added motivation going into offseason

Personally I'd rather see Pasta stay in the AHL this season and continue his stellar play and see what Colangelo can do on Carlsson's wing at the NHL level.

Maybe a couple of games at the end of the season (similar to Colangelo).

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Personally I'd rather see Pasta stay in the AHL this season and continue his stellar play and see what Colangelo can do on Carlsson's wing at the NHL level.

Maybe a couple of games at the end of the season (similar to Colangelo).

Oh ya not suggesting he stays up with Anaheim… just a game or 2 as a reward…. Plus kinda let him see the speed of the nhl and what he might need to work on in offseason.

Should be in ahl next year too until deadline at least.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

I'm honestly surprised with Mysak this season. The way he looked last year I thought he'd end up like Badini and McLaughlin. Meanwhile is Perreault going to school to become a NYC accountant ?

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

I know Matt McIlvane isn’t a good coach, because his record proves it. But sometimes even terrible coaches at least can offer some good insight. Which Matt also doesn’t do here, because he is an awful coach. But to those who are curious about your future Ducks coach, here’s a little interview he did recently.

Honestly seems like a like-able guy, but his team is the worst in the division, and 3rd worst in the league. Why does Verbeek insist on hiring these imbecile coaches, these rosters should be competitions for championships, or at least the underlining numbers should be painting a picture where I can point to why my team will be successful in the future.

Just sometimes frustrating to watch Verbeek and Co ruin any chance this team has at being successful, honestly I don’t think if we fired Cronin and McIlvane for Maurice and Bednar today, we could salvage this train wreck.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Why does the NHL not allow for the amazing options the AHL does?

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I don't think Hinds has the puck skills to be a two way guy (for what it's worth, I don't see Helleson as a two way guy at the NHL level either). Hinds pretty much has been rotated decently between partners, spent time with Warren as a shutdown pairing, some time with Luneau as the LD and other times with Heatherington as the RD. Either way, common factor is that he's typically the more defensive of the two, the exception being when he's with Warren where he tries to take the game on a bit more, but that's not really his game IMO.

I think Hinds is similar to Warren, however I don't think he uses his body as much as he can, however it is worth noting Hinds still has a bit of growing into his frame to do (he's giving up about 25 pounds to Warren). Skating is good for his size, maybe quicker then Warren in a straight line but a touch worse edge wise. Hinds can be panicky with the puck at times - especially under pressure, where he has a bad habit of just throwing it away without much thought, it's why I don't see much two way play in his future, strikes me as a defense first guy at the NHL level.

Personally I have him a touch below Warren, and to be fair he has a harder path into the NHL as I don't see him displacing any of Zellweger/Minty/LaCombe and I need to see a lot more of him at RD before thinking he can play there long term.

Thanks for the update on Hinds.

I know he's a DFD first with a little offense, if he can provide it. That's what I thought Helleson was when we first got him, but we kept playing him differently and didn't know how we were developing Helleson. Which isn't bad because you can try things out at the AHL level that you can't at the NHL level.

As for the path to the NHL, Hinds was always a long shot at LD before Verbeek took over with LaCombe, Thrun, and Zell in tow. But teams could always use a good stay-at-home guy from their #5-7 d-men at the NHL level. The fact they're using Hinds at LD and RD can only bode well for him in the future after he adds more mass to his frame.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I just can’t take you seriously when you say “Think Macro”, and then say “Why are we in the damned basement at both levels?”

Both our levels the past 2 seasons have had one of the 5 youngest rosters. Young rosters in most cases don’t win a lot of games.

Both teams have been focused on individual development plans for their young players, which is ….. thinking macro.

Ps : appreciate all the work you do with stats for our prospects, but for someone who complains constantly about people putting words in your mouth, you sure do it yourself quite a lot.

You do realize you just made my point again, and again, failed to comprehend what macro means.

We have had the youngest rosters by design. Guess who's in charge of that? Verbeek. We have had piss-poor veteran support for the youths at both levels. Guess who's in charge of that? Verbeek. That's why we are in the damned basement at both levels.

At the 2024 Migration event, Verbeek vehemently cites that physical development is the primary concern for the youths Our skill level isn't showing often enough, especially our offensive forwards. That's the product of terrible roster construction at both levels as well as putting skills as a secondary or tertiary level of importance.

Youths teaching the youths or youths teaching themselves isn't macro thinking. It's a small, lazy way of doing things, especially when using the NHL as the primary development affiliate. We are rotating youth D at the NHL level b/c all we have available in the AHL are all youth D. You don't have an answer for that.

---

I quoted your own words. Don't hate your own words!

The longer Dumo stays on the team, the more we care about trying to win this year over completely being developing our young and core, which is a good thing in my mind. Doesn’t mean it’s the best way, but it would be nice to try and build a more winning culture for next season.

You stated it's a good thing that we win more games than develop our youth. One of our youth D in Helleson, Minty, or Zell is gonna sit and sit for a while. You're good with that, as quoted.

For games 16-23 of this year, we had the following D-pairing lineup:

Minty-Gudas​

Lacombe-Zell​

Dumo-Helleson​

(on away games, Hinds)​

The team went 5-2-1, scoring 3 or more goals in all five of our wins. Our youth D helped a lot in that scoring spree. Apparently, we proved we can win with youths.

We called up Hinds on away games as our 7th D. That means we were already SOL because we had five youth D-men on the NHL roster and only youths d-men available to us in the AHL, which is why Hinds was called up. That still wasn't a wakeup call for Verbeek that he couldn't foresee injuries at the NHL level to not have fringe, vet d-men to stash in the AHL for such occassions? We could have signed RD Gustav Lindholm to be that player and that still wouldn't affect acquiring Trouba.

On top of planning on injury replacements, Verbeek already knew he wanted to move on from Fowler. Yet, Verbeek didn't sign any vets or fringe NHL d-men that he can use at the AHL level or as an NHL buffer should a trade arise? We have five contract spots available.

Macro thinking would have helped. Play chess, not checkers.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

You do realize you just made my point again, and again, failed to comprehend what macro means.

We have had the youngest rosters by design. Guess who's in charge of that? Verbeek. We have had piss-poor veteran support for the youths at both levels. Guess who's in charge of that? Verbeek. That's why we are in the damned basement at both levels.

At the 2024 Migration event, Verbeek vehemently cites that physical development is the primary concern for the youths Our skill level isn't showing often enough, especially our offensive forwards. That's the product of terrible roster construction at both levels as well as putting skills as a secondary or tertiary level of importance.

Youths teaching the youths or youths teaching themselves isn't macro thinking. It's a small, lazy way of doing things, especially when using the NHL as the primary development affiliate. We are rotating youth D at the NHL level b/c all we have available in the AHL are all youth D. You don't have an answer for that.

---

I quoted your own words. Don't hate your own words!



You stated it's a good thing that we win more games than develop our youth. One of our youth D in Helleson, Minty, or Zell is gonna sit and sit for a while. You're good with that, as quoted.

For games 16-23 of this year, we had the following D-pairing lineup:

Minty-Gudas​

Lacombe-Zell​

Dumo-Helleson​

(on away games, Hinds)​

The team went 5-2-1, scoring 3 or more goals in all five of our wins. Our youth D helped a lot in that scoring spree. Apparently, we proved we can win with youths.

View attachment 968930


We called up Hinds on away games as our 7th D. That means we were already SOL because we had five youth D-men on the NHL roster and only youths d-men available to us in the AHL, which is why Hinds was called up. That still wasn't a wakeup call for Verbeek that he couldn't foresee injuries at the NHL level to not have fringe, vet d-men to stash in the AHL for such occassions? We could have signed RD Gustav Lindholm to be that player and that still wouldn't affect acquiring Trouba.

On top of planning on injury replacements, Verbeek already knew he wanted to move on from Fowler. Yet, Verbeek didn't sign any vets or fringe NHL d-men that he can use at the AHL level or as an NHL buffer should a trade arise? We have five contract spots available.

Macro thinking would have helped. Play chess, not checkers.

I think we are playing chess and you think we’re playing checkers.

You say crappy roster design, I say the youth movement is by design, in order to have super duper mega-ultimate depth during our attempt to ascent into a “force”.

We all agree the talent is there, AND that it hasn’t been utilized properly. (I just argue it’s partially being done on purpose to help shelter our young players from over exerting themselves and getting hurt, a lot of people here think, and it very well may be the truth, that Cronin sucks and is ruining this team, with Verbeek pulling the idiot strings)

I can think both winning more games with Dumoulin (even if the youngsters are ready to carry the load) and developing the youngsters as being the most important thing long term for this organization. This is a small sacrifice to pay, (because nothing is capable without compromise)in order to try and keep that locker room morale high. A show of faith. Dumo was a leader on the penguins teams, even wearing the A. Sid the kid was his captain, like he got to watch one of the best ever lead his team to multiple Stanley cups.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

Around the WHL - we don’t have a forum so this seems right.

Medicine Hat Tigers vs Everett SilverTips

2026 projected # 1 OA Gavin McKenna vs 2027 projected # 1 OA Landon DuPont. Tonight @ 7:05 pm.

Which leads me to my conspiracy theory

The Pitt / Chicago will not win this draft lottery. Its a will draft,

It will be Sharks (which then ruins their chance at these studs because they still suck, Kraken, Nashville, or Buffalo. (Leaning towards Seattle to give the sharks a chance at winning one in 26’ or 27’.)

Both Pitt and Chicago will win one of each the 26 and 27 draft.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Around the WHL - we don’t have a forum so this seems right.

Medicine Hat Tigers vs Everett SilverTips

2026 projected # 1 OA Gavin McKenna vs 2027 projected # 1 OA Landon DuPont. Tonight @ 7:05 pm.

Which leads me to my conspiracy theory

The Pitt / Chicago will not win this draft lottery. Its a will draft,

It will be Sharks (which then ruins their chance at these studs because they still suck, Kraken, Nashville, or Buffalo. (Leaning towards Seattle to give the sharks a chance at winning one in 26’ or 27’.)

Both Pitt and Chicago will win one of each the 26 and 27 draft.

Prospect Info: Post in thread '2025 NHL Entry Draft'

Jan 21, 2025

If we are picking top 2 I would prefer one of the forwards, Hagens, Martone or Misa. Schaefer is great but I dont think he has separated himself from the others especially after the injury.

Mrtka would be great to add to the pipeline as a future replacement for Gudas/Trouba. Still seems like it will be a F that is best available at our pick 5-10 though so it will be very interesting to see how that next tier of player ends up after the top 4.

Misa would be incredible. He does have an underrated mean streak that will get him very far. He might be more similar to Perry than anything...

• GermanRocket7

• 

This is probably a good place for that type of discussion.

 

[All Mighty]

 

[mightyquack]

Dionicio-Warren is going to be an exciting pairing to watch.

 

[mightyquack]

1-0 Toronto.

Steeves gets his 23rd(!) goal of the season after a dominating shift. Mysak had a broken stick, and the rest of the line was gassed.

Toronto have completely dominated the first 9 minutes, men against boys out there so far.

 

[mightyquack]

Myatovic-Pitre-Caufield is about the only line doing anything for San Diego so far. Myatovic continues to look like a different player the last 10-12 games.

Luneau is very frustrating to watch, so dynamic in the offensive zone, then you watch players like Logan Shaw blast by him because of terrible gap control.

 

[mightyquack]

1-0 Toronto after 20 with shots 10-7 to Toronto.

Gulls commentary team are not impressed with the first, especially as Toronto have been skating rings round the Gulls most of that first period.

I don't blame them, that was a rough first period and a terrible PP until the final 10 seconds when Sidorov generated two good chances. Some pretty good goaltending by Clang is pretty much the only reason it's not more then one goal at the moment.

 

[mightyquack]

1-1 Gulls. Pasta with a great PP goal. Luneau on the rush made a nice little pass inside to Pasta at centre ice who blows past both Marlies defenceman, and roofs it on the breakaway. One of those PP's that shows you scored on it, but it was a woeful PP before that moment, makes the Ducks PP look world class.

I've said it before, but Pasta's skating is much improved this season and that's why he's getting these sort of chances now.

 

[Static]

1-1 Gulls. Pasta with a great PP goal. Luneau on the rush made a nice little pass inside to Pasta at centre ice who blows past both Marlies defenceman, and roofs it on the breakaway. One of those PP's that shows you scored on it, but it was a woeful PP before that moment, makes the Ducks PP look world class.

I've said it before, but Pasta's skating is much improved this season and that's why he's getting these sort of chances now.

 

[mightyquack]

2-1 Toronto on the PP. PK went extremely passive and I think it was Nylander? was completely open in the slot and ripped a one timer past Clang.

Pretty frustrating as the Gulls had just worked themselves back into the game too.

 

[mightyquack]

Such a nice pass by Luneau, effectively takes all 4 PK'ers out of the play by passing it a few feet.

 

[Static]

 

[mightyquack]

2-2 Gulls, Bailey gets his first Gulls goal on the PP. Dionicio rushes to the blue line, then lays it off to Mysak who goes back to the Gulls d-zone for Nesterenko who rushes into the zone, drop pass to Bailey who rips it 5 hole.

Nice little set up on the Gulls PP there, Marlies were completely flat footed.