Speculation: 2024-25 Roster thread

It's possible (or maybe even slightly likely) that some of these guys aren't qualified, but still come back on a lesser deal, like Leason and Vaaks this season. If they are marginal players on a bottom 10 team, I highly doubt they're going to find permanent jobs elsewhere. At least here, they know they at least have a fighting chance at getting NHL playing time.
 
Legitimately the only reason that’s the case is because they don’t have anyone else to take PK draws (and he’s not very good at them anyway). If they had a better faceoff man who could play the PK, Lundestrom’s PK time would be cut back substantially.
I don't think it's that simple... Harkins has the best FO% on the team and plays on the PK half as much as Lundestrom does.
 
Lundy gets extremely undervalued around these boards. If anything, Leason is overrated!

I get that he’s essentially a net zero offensively at putting the puck in the net - BUT he does have a sneaky skill set once he has the ability to showcase it.

Problem is, he (at least to my knowledge) hasn’t had many chances to display anything in the top six. Most of his coaches have stapled him on the bottom half of the lineup.
 
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I'd keep Lundy as the 4th line LW or 13th forward. He skates better than most of our other players and PKs well with his speed. He can be the 4th line C if Gaucher isn't up for it or we don't find anyone better.
 
Lundy gets extremely undervalued around these boards. If anything, Leason is overrated!

I get that he’s essentially a net zero offensively at putting the puck in the net - BUT he does have a sneaky skill set once he has the ability to showcase it.

Problem is, he (at least to my knowledge) hasn’t had many chances to display anything in the top six. Most of his coaches have stapled him on the bottom half of the lineup.
The years to put Lundy with top 6 talent were when Silf and Grant were using those spots. Everyone knew they would be out of the league once their contracts were up but for some reason we were still using them in prominent spots.

Now? I'm not sure theres a spot there.
 
Putting Lundy in the top 6 would be like cooking a steak medium well and insisting that it's still just as good as medium or medium rare if you just pour enough sauce on top of it.

We should get actual top 6 production calibre players for the top 6 to improve, not try to cram whoever we have who, under the right laboratory circumstances, might sometimes show creativity and perhaps maybe potentially be a goal scorer into the mix.
 
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People are talking about Lundestrom and his PK ability as if it's a positive quality. The Ducks' PK is possibly the worst in the league. It gives up the most expected goals against per 60. Even by traditional stats it's bad.

Lundestrom is part of the problem.
Lundestrom is one player. PKing is a system.

He skates better than most of the other players on the team and that's an important quality for a penalty killer to be able to close the gaps created by being short handed. As long as his contract demand is reasonable for a fourth liner / 13th forward, there's no reason not to bring him back.
 
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Lundestrom is underrated. If we werent using him as our faceoff ace I feel like his percentage would be better. I would qualify him. I just know he would blossom elsewhere if we let him go for nothing.
Agreed. He is the perfect 3rd liner in my view
 
Lundestrom is underrated. If we werent using him as our faceoff ace I feel like his percentage would be better. I would qualify him. I just know he would blossom elsewhere if we let him go for nothing.

He very well might blossom elsewhere, but he's had a lot of time here and is nowhere near blossoming.

As for the faceoff thing, why would his percentage be better if we used him more on it? A faceoff is a discrete event. If he were good at them, he would win more of the ones he actually takes.

Also, even if that were true, we would then have Lundestrom on the ice more often, which is not a good thing, seeing as he's bad at offense, and his defensive skills are questionable as well.

The only reason to keep Lundestrom around is if Verbeek is too busy dealing with bigger problems to replace him. But unless he suddenly figures everything out, he's someone who's going to need to be replaced when this team wants to be competitive.
 
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Lundestrom is underrated. If we werent using him as our faceoff ace I feel like his percentage would be better. I would qualify him. I just know he would blossom elsewhere if we let him go for nothing.
I agree he is talented and smart, we should definitely retain in hopes he breaks out. But I do think he should be traded if we got a decent offer for him now. It could get crowded next season and it would limit his opportunities. He's not really a bottom-line grinder type.
 
Lundestrom kind of comes off as a heady player but I’m not sure he really is, especially offensively. Certainly not lacking like a Max Jones but I’m not confident at this point in him finding an offensive game.
 
It is funny to me that people pin our bad PK on Lundestrom/Harkins and not Vatrano (who can't pass in his own zone to save his life) or Killorn (who can't skate out of the zone with urgency to save his life)

Lundestrom, Harkins, and Leason are like the boilerplate PKers that at least 90% of the league has on their team.
 
It is funny to me that people pin our bad PK on Lundestrom/Harkins and not Vatrano (who can't pass in his own zone to save his life) or Killorn (who can't skate out of the zone with urgency to save his life)

Lundestrom, Harkins, and Leason are like the boilerplate PKers that at least 90% of the league has on their team.

I don't know that any of those guys is good. But Lundestrom is a big part of it. This season, his xGA/60 on the PK is second worst to Vatrano. Over the last three seasons, there are 145 players who have spent more than 200 minutes on the PK. Lundestrom is 5th worst in xGA/60 (2nd worst in actual GA/60). Now, there are a lot of Ducks high on that list, which indicates that there's plenty of blame to go around (including to coaches), but he's above (below?) them all. I'm not sure why people go out of their way to defend him.

At best, the argument is that Lundestrom doesn't matter because he's just a 4th liner. And that's mostly true, particularly for a team that's still as bad as the Ducks. But it would be nice to have an actually good 4th line center who can win faceoffs and PK well.
 
I don't know that any of those guys is good. But Lundestrom is a big part of it. This season, his xGA/60 on the PK is second worst to Vatrano. Over the last three seasons, there are 145 players who have spent more than 200 minutes on the PK. Lundestrom is 5th worst in xGA/60 (2nd worst in actual GA/60). Now, there are a lot of Ducks high on that list, which indicates that there's plenty of blame to go around (including to coaches), but he's above (below?) them all. I'm not sure why people go out of their way to defend him.

At best, the argument is that Lundestrom doesn't matter because he's just a 4th liner. And that's mostly true, particularly for a team that's still as bad as the Ducks. But it would be nice to have an actually good 4th line center who can win faceoffs and PK well.
This is kind of my point though... There are probably like 3 teams in the league with "good" 4th line centers. And if you put one of those on the Ducks, their numbers would probably be right next to everyone else on our team.

Lundestrom isn't a bad PKer, the DUCKS are bad PKers.

Swapping him out for another 4C isn't going to change anything. Call me sentimental, but I like to see players who we have drafted stick with the team instead of just replacing them with mercenaries that won't move the needle.
 
This is kind of my point though... There are probably like 3 teams in the league with "good" 4th line centers. And if you put one of those on the Ducks, their numbers would probably be right next to everyone else on our team.

Lundestrom isn't a bad PKer, the DUCKS are bad PKers.

Swapping him out for another 4C isn't going to change anything. Call me sentimental, but I like to see players who we have drafted stick with the team instead of just replacing them with mercenaries that won't move the needle.

When I say "good" I mean good compared to other 4th liners. He's a below average 4th liner. I agree that the Ducks are bad PKers. By the numbers, Lundestrom is the worst one. And that's over a 3-year sample.

I would love to see Lundestrom work out because I enjoy homegrown guys becoming good players for the Ducks. But he's 25 now and it hasn't happened. Sentimentality is the ONLY reason to keep him, and I don't find that compelling. I'd rather be better, even if only marginally.
 
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Lundestrom isn't great at faceoffs, but I don't get acting like he's critically terrible at them, especially compared to the rest of the team. And he does seem to have improved this season.
Total FO%5v5 FO%
Harkins54.14%49.11%
McTavish49.73%49.55%
Lundestrom47.37%51.26%
Strome41.74%39.31%
Carlsson39.41%40.54%
Zegras37.66%38.10%
(I included 5v5 because I found it interesting that Lundy's is actually the best on the team, though also because it's even more interesting that Harkins is apparently dramatically better at PK faceoffs than 5v5 ones? Maybe he should be the top PK guy, actually.)

But in any case, if you're not keeping Lundestrom I don't think the faceoffs are why. His GA/60 and xGA/60 are some of the best on the team despite some of the worst deployment, and he's demonstrated he can be a good checking center for wingers that have some clue what the goal is (McGinn/Gauthier-Lundestrom-Leason almost always looked solid, and they were used as a matchup line often). His defense would probably be even better on a team that doesn't have, you know, a bottom two defensive system in the league.
He has seen enough top six time this season that there's really no reason to try that anymore, but he's a good bottom sixer. I'd keep him and at least make Gaucher force him out. That or trade him before it becomes an issue, there's definitely going to be a team out there that sees his skating and defense and goes "we can fix him!" about his offense. You're not going to get much, but I think you can get something versus letting him walk for nothing.

Speaking of how much we want fourth line Ls, all the writing off of Leason seems premature. He was looking like a great bottom six piece (even after the offensive hot streak cooled down) until Cronin decided "let's ask him to be Zegras for a few weeks" was a good idea. That seemed to pretty much wreck his mental game (which might be a him problem, but on the other hand, the signs don't point to him getting appropriate coaching through that situation) but he seems like he might be starting to recover and pick it up again. Too early to make that decision given the circumstances, IMO.
If he gets back to form by the end of the season, keep him, not even a question. If he doesn't, I think it depends who you intend to replace him with (Colangelo should be a Fabbri replacement, not a fourth liner. Does the org think Nesterenko is a fourth liner? I'm not sure what to make of him from his limited looks with the Ducks). If it's the end of the season and he still hasn't gotten his game back together, sure, let him walk if there's a better option on the table. I just don't think you give up on the upside he's actually demonstrated without having a realistic upgrade ready—basically, if we let him go we'd better not ever see Johnston on the ice next season.

(If it's one or the other, I'd keep Leason. Lundy at his best is a solid and reliable role player, Leason at his best can actually break a game, apparently. I don't think "but at his worst he's scratched for Johnston" is an argument against him, maybe if he ever actually looked worse than Johnston rather than being scratched by a coach who thinks the hit stat is a proxy for whether you're skating.)
 
No player should ever be kept or not kept solely based on faceoffs. It would just be nice for a player in Lundestrom's role to actually be good at them.

All of the arguments for keeping Lundestrom are either sentimental (which I kind of get even if I don't find them all that compelling at this point in the Ducks' rebuild), or they're based on what he might be if he's not on a terrible team. When people say he's a good bottom sixer, what do they mean? Because he doesn't score more than an average bottom sixer (he's 3rd worst in pts/60 for forwards who have played 500 minutes this season). He's ok, I guess, on defense (he's bottom third in xGA/60 among forwards, but I acknowledge that the Ducks have several dudes who are below him). He's definitely one of the better defensive forwards on the Ducks, although that's a very low bar to clear. He's not a good PKer, either individually or relatively.

All of the arguments for him are contextual - the system is bad, his linemates are bad, the defense is bad, look at his deployment - but at some point there should be some glimpse that he can rise above that stuff to be decent at something. I just don't get the attachment. This will be my last post on it because I'm sure it's getting tiresome for everyone. I really don't hate Lundestrom. I wish he'd be good. But there's no evidence that he is, eye test or objective, even for a bottom sixer. Why shouldn't we want to do better?
 
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I want the following forwards to not return next year and be replaced by better players:

1) Leason
2) Lundestrom
3) Harkins
4) Johnston
5) Fabbri


There’s plenty of room to upgrade this team in the next 8 months. Even upgrading 2 of those guys would go a long way
To add to this. Bringing in verbeek type players ( hard to play against, smart, little more proven/skilled seasoned players) that get paid 2-2.5m instead of 1m etc. we have the cap, and the youngsters need 3-4th line help so when they have cold streaks we aren’t completely f’d
 

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