Speculation: 2024-25 Roster thread

[DuckRogers10]

Gauthier - Carlsson - Colangelo
Killorn - Zegras - Terry
Vatrano - McTavish - Strome
John - Lundestrom - Leason

I'd swap Leason and Fumble the puck Strome.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Gauthier - Carlsson - Colangelo
Killorn - Zegras - Terry
Vatrano - McTavish - Strome
John - Lundestrom - Leason

I’m not sure why you separate Zegras and Carlsson after the way they’ve been playing the last 4 games. I think you replace Killorn with right about anyone.

 

[ducknuts]

I’m not sure why you separate Zegras and Carlsson after the way they’ve been playing the last 4 games. I think you replace Killorn with right about anyone.

They’ve been playing great together, but long term I want Zegras centering his own line.

If we’re keeping them together this season, I’d roll with these lines:

Zegras - Carlsson - Colangelo
Vatrano - McTavish - Strome
Gauthier - Lundestrom - Terry
Killorn - Harkins - Leason

 

[bracer028]

They’ve been playing great together, but long term I want Zegras centering his own line.

If we’re keeping them together this season, I’d roll with these lines:

Zegras - Carlsson - Colangelo
Vatrano - McTavish - Strome
Gauthier - Lundestrom - Terry
Killorn - Harkins - Leason

its like separating selanne and kariya. Why would you do it?

 

[ducknuts]

its like separating selanne and kariya. Why would you do it?

You’re comparing Carlsson and Zegras to Selanne and Kariya?

Also, Carlsson and Zegras are both centers.

 

[bracer028]

Zegras and carlsson can both play wing.

You’re comparing Carlsson and Zegras to Selanne and Kariya?

Also, Carlsson and Zegras are both centers.

s

 

[Hey234]

They’ve been playing great together, but long term I want Zegras centering his own line.

If we’re keeping them together this season, I’d roll with these lines:

Zegras - Carlsson - Colangelo
Vatrano - McTavish - Strome
Gauthier - Lundestrom - Terry
Killorn - Harkins - Leason

Ideally players find chemistry and then play well together. It shouldn't matter what someone should be. If Zegras and Carlsson have chemistry, which it appears they do, then why wouldn't we lean into that? Killorn is the black hole on that line. He's the player who should be replaced.

 

[TheDarkWingThatDucks]

I guess this is about the fourth or fifth time you've taken my engagement with you on this board and turned it into another soapbox spasm of statistics and vitriol and "???" and doubting my intelligence. Are you incapable of having a calm discussion when you disagree with someone?

My original point was that sounding alarm bells over Leo's point production in his second year in the league is premature and unfair. I therefore used the Corey Perry example because a) he too was once a promising young player who didn't put up huge point production in his second year and b) he eventually turned out alright. Apples to apples. I'm sorry you didn't care for the example I used, but that doesn't invalidate what I wrote.

Of course Verbeek and Cronin are the REAL problems. Is that supposed to be some huge revelation? When I suggested we should cool our collective jets on Leo and focus on real problems, that's what I meant. I guess I thought that was pretty well understood by most who frequent this board. But thanks so much for your attempt to rub my nose in it, as you so frequently do with other posters here who dare to challenge your thinking.

This isn't personal. I am not your enemy just because you don't like what I have to say. Quit hiding behind your statistics and unrelenting arrogance and learn how to make a reasoned argument without attacking your fellow Duck fans. It may surprise you to learn that other people can be right too.

Hello, I take a little issue with Verbeek and Cronin being the REAL problem. While I understand the frustration with the teams start to the season, I’d like to point out why I think neither of them are a truly a problem.

To start with Verbeek, in the 2021-2022 ripped the bandaid off, he couldn’t come to terms with the upcoming UFA’s and traded them for prospects and picks.

Out of his 3 drafts so far (which is the key to our rebuild, along with the 4 years of draft picks when we were just bad, not rebuilding), 2 players are currently on the NHL roster. Our building blocks for the future are clearly in some capacity, because not all draft picks work out and very likely some of these players will be traded, or not be on the team long term, are Sennecke, Leo, Cutter, Minty, McT, Zelly, Zegras, Terry, Dostal.
With laye first - 3rd round prospects in Stian, Petterson, Masse, Ethan P, Tarin S, Myatovic, Terrance, Clara, Pitre, Sidorov, Gaucher, Warren, Luneau as all Verbeek draft picks hopefully to join the team in the next 2-4 years as our ELC’s start getting paid more and need to bring in young cheaper talent. We also should add another top 15 draft pick (realistically top 10) and draft class minus a second (unless we trade some UFA’s at the deadline, which if we do means we are so bad at the time, we will be getting a top 3 pick).

This is the key to our rebuild, if we hit on Verbeek’s drafts, and our top picks take major steps in their games in the next couple years.

As for Cronin, here is some Reddit thread where every avalanche fan said, upon hiring Cronin, how good he was at player development, and how we got a great coach.



His specialty was apparently AHL defensemen, which we have in our NHL and AHL pipeline currently, Minty, Zelly, LaCombe, Drew H, Luneau, Hinds, Warren, Dionicio….. plus these people, port, Konnor s, Tarin s, Stian, Ian Moore? If he does his job in developing these prospects, we will be loaded with a defensive pipeline to make us competitive for 10-12 years. We still need some RHD prospects most likely, maybe our first this year depending on BPA.

As far as holding back the offensive guys, which is a fair criticism, I think all of them are being held to a standard on and off the ice. The purpose of Cronin is come teach our young players are serious they have to take the offseason, training, practices, workouts, film sessions, buying into a system even if it’s against personal gain.

I don’t think Cronin will be around when we take our next step, but I think he is doing his job currently. The next 11 games, Kings, Vegas, Wild, Maple Leafs are the only real penciled in losses. We are playing are best hockey so far of the season (still not great hockey I know) and are adding a top 6 forward who had 21 pts in 20 games to start last season, maybe it’s the type of player to add to a hot team that keeps the offense firing.

I know the development statically doesn’t paint a picture, but I think the behind the scene work that is being done will be very important in 1-3 years when we can expect to start sneaking into the playoffs. Then hopefully during that stretch you hire the coach to help take 22-23 year old Leo and Co into a consistent playoff team for 10-12 years.

And no one has to agree with what I think, I just don’t think everyone is looking at the puzzle as a whole, and looking at individual pcs that don’t seem to be working. A small example is Leo who during his 18 and 19 year seasons is at a higher PPG pace than Barkov and Hughes did during their first two years.

We bottomed out 2 - 2-1/2 years ago, started this season off extremely poorly, have taken some steps these last few games, let’s see if we’ve started to build a team identity and if we can continue playing competitive hockey before grabbing all our pitchforks.

Edit: in terms of not being able to see the progress that I think is happening. Has anybody seen the movie Idiocracy ? Well in it, the future starts watering plants with Brawndo (Gatorade) and the plants die, the main character tells them to use toilet water to help plants grow. Everyone makes fun of him, and when NO ONE can see immediate progress the sentence him to death. Even though the process is working, just because people can’t understand, that sometimes there isn’t immediate proof that something (in this case, player development) is working.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I guess this is about the fourth or fifth time you've taken my engagement with you on this board and turned it into another soapbox spasm of statistics and vitriol and "???" and doubting my intelligence. Are you incapable of having a calm discussion when you disagree with someone?

My original point was that sounding alarm bells over Leo's point production in his second year in the league is premature and unfair. I therefore used the Corey Perry example because a) he too was once a promising young player who didn't put up huge point production in his second year and b) he eventually turned out alright. Apples to apples. I'm sorry you didn't care for the example I used, but that doesn't invalidate what I wrote.

Of course Verbeek and Cronin are the REAL problems. Is that supposed to be some huge revelation? When I suggested we should cool our collective jets on Leo and focus on real problems, that's what I meant. I guess I thought that was pretty well understood by most who frequent this board. But thanks so much for your attempt to rub my nose in it, as you so frequently do with other posters here who dare to challenge your thinking.

This isn't personal. I am not your enemy just because you don't like what I have to say. Quit hiding behind your statistics and unrelenting arrogance and learn how to make a reasoned argument without attacking your fellow Duck fans. It may surprise you to learn that other people can be right too.

Oh bless your heart. I'm not the one in a tantrum about "Can we shift our focus to the REAL problems with this team?" Johnny, let's bring in the evidence!

In his second year in the league, playing on a MUCH better team, Corey Perry had 44 points. He eventually won a Hart Trophy. Can we shift our focus to the REAL problems with this team?

That was your "snide" remark in your response to my post. I wasn't blaming Carlsson nor Z for their lack of offensive production. I blamed the coach and GM. Don't be whining about a response that directly addressed your posited thought that "it isn't the GM and coach."

Are you complaining about fairness? It's pretty ridiculous to mock me about stats, but you're allowed to use stats for your argument? You say many things can be true, but not when it comes to my thoughts - my thoughts are wrong. That's pretty rich of you. You've personally counted our interactions and I've no idea who you are.

You're using stats from a different era. Plain and simple. How about using a far more recent one with the same head coach as Carlsson instead of one nearly two decades ago in a different era of hockey? You can't refute it and that's why you're on this tantrum upon specific subject.

Let's do look at apple to apples.

It's crazy, but Perry getting more minutes = higher ppg rate. Carlsson is already "given" those 1st line minutes and he's stuck in a low ppg rate. That makes Carlsson's production look even worse in his first two seasons in the league. The stats prove these are not apples to apples comparisons.

Apples to apples Comp with Perry

• Hockey Ducks =
• @Rooch =

---

Let's say you complain about, "Well the team is in a rebuild and the roster sucks for Carlsson." This is where using a recent comparison matters with Zegras. Especially, since we can see Z's production pre-Cronin.

Note: The 2022-23 season was the season Verbeek gave nothing for the defense: no physicality, no top-4 type d-men, not enough natural RD's.

Comparing apples to apples, Z was able to produce at a higher rate when given more minutes between his first two seasons in the NHL. That pattern runs similar to Perry playing more minutes induces a higher production from his first years in the league.

Z was able to produce at a high scoring rate with a playoff potential team in 2021-22. Then reproduced that high scoring rate with a feckless team that GM Verbeek gave Eakins that resulted with the worst record in the NHL. It was only until Cronin showed up that Z's high end offense fell precipitously and it hasn't risen.

Since Carlsson entered the league with Cronin in 2023-24, you lack the necessary scope for comparison - which is why you went back nearly two decades/another era for comparison. Under inspection, Carlsson and Perry aren't apples to apples. I don't think you comprehend the offensive suppression that was being applied by Cronin. Cronin's offense isn't conducive to high-end, finesse scorers like Z, Carlsson, and Terry.

Apples to apples Comp with Z

• Hockey Ducks =
• @Rooch =

---

Let's now look at Terry's production.

Terry's production has considerably dropped since playing under Cronin's offensive scheme.

Apples to apples Comp with Terry

• Hockey Ducks =
• @Rooch =

---

As you can see, the offensive suppression with our young, scoring, finesse forwards are real. That's the "REAL" problem that isn't visible in your scope. I'm not saying Carlsson sucks. I'm saying Carlsson's offense is being suppressed, all of our finesse scoring forwards are being suppressed. On the whole, our whole offense has been suppressed under Cronin and we have Eakins tenure in Verbeekening Year 1 as a point of reference - which I pointed out last season!

Hoping Carlsson will improve over time isn't a viable strategy, which is your thought (see Perry example). Hope is not a strategy for success. Identifying the problem and fixing said problem is a more viable strategy for success. Recently, Gudas said that the team has made some changes. We're 4-1-1 (9 pts) in our last six games.

In the last few games, Carlsson and Z have been put together under a recent change system. Both are ppg players in the last four games. Both went scoreless against an above .500 team in Dallas. Terry has 1 point in the past four games, but had 11 points in the previous 15 games. How do we get Terry back on track while keeping Carlsson and Z on a ppg scoring rate is Cronin's next amendment.

 

[Rooch]

Oh bless your heart. I'm not the one in a tantrum about "Can we shift our focus to the REAL problems with this team?" Johnny, let's bring in the evidence!



That was your "snide" remark in your response to my post. I wasn't blaming Carlsson nor Z for their lack of offensive production. I blamed the coach and GM. Don't be whining about a response that directly addressed your posited thought that "it isn't the GM and coach."

Are you complaining about fairness? It's pretty ridiculous to mock me about stats, but you're allowed to use stats for your argument? You say many things can be true, but not when it comes to my thoughts - my thoughts are wrong. That's pretty rich of you. You've personally counted our interactions and I've no idea who you are.

You're using stats from a different era. Plain and simple. How about using a far more recent one with the same head coach as Carlsson instead of one nearly two decades ago in a different era of hockey? You can't refute it and that's why you're on this tantrum upon specific subject.

Let's do look at apple to apples.

View attachment 935407

View attachment 935408​

It's crazy, but Perry getting more minutes = higher ppg rate. Carlsson is already "given" those 1st line minutes and he's stuck in a low ppg rate. That makes Carlsson's production look even worse in his first two seasons in the league. The stats prove these are not apples to apples comparisons.

Apples to apples Comp with Perry

• Hockey Ducks =
• @Rooch =

---

Let's say you complain about, "Well the team is in a rebuild and the roster sucks for Carlsson." This is where using a recent comparison matters with Zegras. Especially, since we can see Z's production pre-Cronin.

View attachment 935406​

Note: The 2022-23 season was the season Verbeek gave nothing for the defense: no physicality, no top-4 type d-men, not enough natural RD's.

Comparing apples to apples, Z was able to produce at a higher rate when given more minutes between his first two seasons in the NHL. That pattern runs similar to Perry playing more minutes induces a higher production from his first years in the league.

Z was able to produce at a high scoring rate with a playoff potential team in 2021-22. Then reproduced that high scoring rate with a feckless team that GM Verbeek gave Eakins that resulted with the worst record in the NHL. It was only until Cronin showed up that Z's high end offense fell precipitously and it hasn't risen.

Since Carlsson entered the league with Cronin in 2023-24, you lack the necessary scope for comparison - which is why you went back nearly two decades/another era for comparison. Under inspection, Carlsson and Perry aren't apples to apples. I don't think you comprehend the offensive suppression that was being applied by Cronin. Cronin's offense isn't conducive to high-end, finesse scorers like Z, Carlsson, and Terry.

Apples to apples Comp with Z

• Hockey Ducks =
• @Rooch =

---

Let's now look at Terry's production.

View attachment 935428​

Terry's production has considerably dropped since playing under Cronin's offensive scheme.

Apples to apples Comp with Terry

• Hockey Ducks =
• @Rooch =

---

As you can see, the offensive suppression with our young, scoring, finesse forwards are real. That's the "REAL" problem that isn't visible in your scope. I'm not saying Carlsson sucks. I'm saying Carlsson's offense is being suppressed, all of our finesse scoring forwards are being suppressed. On the whole, our whole offense has been suppressed under Cronin and we have Eakins tenure in Verbeekening Year 1 as a point of reference - which I pointed out last season!

Hoping Carlsson will improve over time isn't a viable strategy, which is your thought (see Perry example). Hope is not a strategy for success. Identifying the problem and fixing said problem is a more viable strategy for success. Recently, Gudas said that the team has made some changes. We're 4-1-1 (9 pts) in our last six games.

In the last few games, Carlsson and Z have been put together under a recent change system. Both are ppg players in the last four games. Both went scoreless against an above .500 team in Dallas. Terry has 1 point in the past four games, but had 11 points in the previous 15 games. How do we get Terry back on track while keeping Carlsson and Z on a ppg scoring rate is Cronin's next amendment.

You just proved my point.

This isn't about the Carlsson or the Ducks at all. Your sad red exes, green checkmarks and mind-numbing charts offer nothing but further evidence that conversations here are a form of competition to you, not a way of connecting with other Ducks fans. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN. But the point of view you try to convey gets completely lost in your incessant attempts to dominate and demean others. Is yourself self-esteem really that low?

Your ego and visceral need to be right in every discussion, to the point that you try to humiliate and brow-beat other fans into surrender, makes posting on this board a nightmare. Why anyone who participates on this site would ever again engage with you is beyond me.

 

[Leonardo87]

Just to throw some charts at you...







What does this all mean? This team is likely buying Dostal a steak dinner almost every night. lol. They are dead last in expected scoring.

 

[ZegrassyKnoll]

Just to throw some charts at you...







What does this all mean? This team is likely buying Dostal a steak dinner almost every night. lol. They are dead last in expected scoring.

When it says Nov 24 is that all season up to the 24th, or the week of the 24th? I'm guessing the former.

Not really surprising, there have been some atrocious games this season lol

 

[KelVarnsen]

Just to throw some charts at you...







What does this all mean? This team is likely buying Dostal a steak dinner almost every night. lol. They are dead last in expected scoring.

What it means to me is the Ducks are a bad hockey team and only outstanding goaltending is keeping them from the ridiculously/hilariously bad hockey team level. Keep up the good work Cro!

 

[2faded]

They’ve been playing great together, but long term I want Zegras centering his own line.

If we’re keeping them together this season, I’d roll with these lines:

Zegras - Carlsson - Colangelo
Vatrano - McTavish - Strome
Gauthier - Lundestrom - Terry
Killorn - Harkins - Leason

I like that 3rd line and actually think they'd be the 2nd best line.

 

[LuGBuG]

Hopefully as a team we get better on the dot as the year goes on. My main thing with Leo is FO percentage being extremely low for even a 19 year old which we should expect to be under 50 percent. If he can elevate to 42-45 percent from I believe 35ish percent is what is saw, our top line will look a lot better and the flow of the overall game will improve.

I think Vatrano and Killorn need to alternate a game or two in the box also.

…. No…. He doesn’t.

 

[slippingsloth]

Gotta love those charts. Lords Dostal and Gibson keeping us 500 lol

 

[MMC]

 

[Reveille1984]

What it means to me is the Ducks are a bad hockey team and only outstanding goaltending is keeping them from the ridiculously/hilariously bad hockey team level. Keep up the good work Cro!

Not just bad, but basically we've been both the worst defensive and worst offensive team in the NHL in 5v5 hockey thus far. That is pretty impressive to pull off, thanks Cronin!

 

[dracom]

Not just bad, but basically we've been both the worst defensive and worst offensive team in the NHL in 5v5 hockey thus far. That is pretty impressive to pull off, thanks Cronin!

Good thing we didn’t even try and get the objectively better coach.