Speculation: 2024-25 Roster thread
- Thread starter Leonardo87
- Start date
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
I’m not sure why you separate Zegras and Carlsson after the way they’ve been playing the last 4 games. I think you replace Killorn with right about anyone.
They’ve been playing great together, but long term I want Zegras centering his own line.
If we’re keeping them together this season, I’d roll with these lines:
Zegras - Carlsson - Colangelo
Vatrano - McTavish - Strome
Gauthier - Lundestrom - Terry
Killorn - Harkins - Leason
You’re comparing Carlsson and Zegras to Selanne and Kariya?
Also, Carlsson and Zegras are both centers.
Zegras and carlsson can both play wing.
sYou’re comparing Carlsson and Zegras to Selanne and Kariya?
Also, Carlsson and Zegras are both centers.
Ideally players find chemistry and then play well together. It shouldn't matter what someone should be. If Zegras and Carlsson have chemistry, which it appears they do, then why wouldn't we lean into that? Killorn is the black hole on that line. He's the player who should be replaced.
TheDarkWingThatDucks
Registered User
- Oct 30, 2024
- 23
- 13
Hello, I take a little issue with Verbeek and Cronin being the REAL problem. While I understand the frustration with the teams start to the season, I’d like to point out why I think neither of them are a truly a problem.
To start with Verbeek, in the 2021-2022 ripped the bandaid off, he couldn’t come to terms with the upcoming UFA’s and traded them for prospects and picks.
Out of his 3 drafts so far (which is the key to our rebuild, along with the 4 years of draft picks when we were just bad, not rebuilding), 2 players are currently on the NHL roster. Our building blocks for the future are clearly in some capacity, because not all draft picks work out and very likely some of these players will be traded, or not be on the team long term, are Sennecke, Leo, Cutter, Minty, McT, Zelly, Zegras, Terry, Dostal.
With laye first - 3rd round prospects in Stian, Petterson, Masse, Ethan P, Tarin S, Myatovic, Terrance, Clara, Pitre, Sidorov, Gaucher, Warren, Luneau as all Verbeek draft picks hopefully to join the team in the next 2-4 years as our ELC’s start getting paid more and need to bring in young cheaper talent. We also should add another top 15 draft pick (realistically top 10) and draft class minus a second (unless we trade some UFA’s at the deadline, which if we do means we are so bad at the time, we will be getting a top 3 pick).
This is the key to our rebuild, if we hit on Verbeek’s drafts, and our top picks take major steps in their games in the next couple years.
As for Cronin, here is some Reddit thread where every avalanche fan said, upon hiring Cronin, how good he was at player development, and how we got a great coach.
His specialty was apparently AHL defensemen, which we have in our NHL and AHL pipeline currently, Minty, Zelly, LaCombe, Drew H, Luneau, Hinds, Warren, Dionicio….. plus these people, port, Konnor s, Tarin s, Stian, Ian Moore? If he does his job in developing these prospects, we will be loaded with a defensive pipeline to make us competitive for 10-12 years. We still need some RHD prospects most likely, maybe our first this year depending on BPA.
As far as holding back the offensive guys, which is a fair criticism, I think all of them are being held to a standard on and off the ice. The purpose of Cronin is come teach our young players are serious they have to take the offseason, training, practices, workouts, film sessions, buying into a system even if it’s against personal gain.
I don’t think Cronin will be around when we take our next step, but I think he is doing his job currently. The next 11 games, Kings, Vegas, Wild, Maple Leafs are the only real penciled in losses. We are playing are best hockey so far of the season (still not great hockey I know) and are adding a top 6 forward who had 21 pts in 20 games to start last season, maybe it’s the type of player to add to a hot team that keeps the offense firing.
I know the development statically doesn’t paint a picture, but I think the behind the scene work that is being done will be very important in 1-3 years when we can expect to start sneaking into the playoffs. Then hopefully during that stretch you hire the coach to help take 22-23 year old Leo and Co into a consistent playoff team for 10-12 years.
And no one has to agree with what I think, I just don’t think everyone is looking at the puzzle as a whole, and looking at individual pcs that don’t seem to be working. A small example is Leo who during his 18 and 19 year seasons is at a higher PPG pace than Barkov and Hughes did during their first two years.
We bottomed out 2 - 2-1/2 years ago, started this season off extremely poorly, have taken some steps these last few games, let’s see if we’ve started to build a team identity and if we can continue playing competitive hockey before grabbing all our pitchforks.
Edit: in terms of not being able to see the progress that I think is happening. Has anybody seen the movie Idiocracy ? Well in it, the future starts watering plants with Brawndo (Gatorade) and the plants die, the main character tells them to use toilet water to help plants grow. Everyone makes fun of him, and when NO ONE can see immediate progress the sentence him to death. Even though the process is working, just because people can’t understand, that sometimes there isn’t immediate proof that something (in this case, player development) is working.
Last edited:
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
Oh bless your heart. I'm not the one in a tantrum about "Can we shift our focus to the REAL problems with this team?" Johnny, let's bring in the evidence!
That was your "snide" remark in your response to my post. I wasn't blaming Carlsson nor Z for their lack of offensive production. I blamed the coach and GM. Don't be whining about a response that directly addressed your posited thought that "it isn't the GM and coach."
Are you complaining about fairness? It's pretty ridiculous to mock me about stats, but you're allowed to use stats for your argument? You say many things can be true, but not when it comes to my thoughts - my thoughts are wrong. That's pretty rich of you. You've personally counted our interactions and I've no idea who you are.
You're using stats from a different era. Plain and simple. How about using a far more recent one with the same head coach as Carlsson instead of one nearly two decades ago in a different era of hockey? You can't refute it and that's why you're on this tantrum upon specific subject.
Let's do look at apple to apples.
It's crazy, but Perry getting more minutes = higher ppg rate. Carlsson is already "given" those 1st line minutes and he's stuck in a low ppg rate. That makes Carlsson's production look even worse in his first two seasons in the league. The stats prove these are not apples to apples comparisons.
Apples to apples Comp with Perry
- Hockey Ducks =
- @Rooch =
Let's say you complain about, "Well the team is in a rebuild and the roster sucks for Carlsson." This is where using a recent comparison matters with Zegras. Especially, since we can see Z's production pre-Cronin.
Note: The 2022-23 season was the season Verbeek gave nothing for the defense: no physicality, no top-4 type d-men, not enough natural RD's.
Comparing apples to apples, Z was able to produce at a higher rate when given more minutes between his first two seasons in the NHL. That pattern runs similar to Perry playing more minutes induces a higher production from his first years in the league.
Z was able to produce at a high scoring rate with a playoff potential team in 2021-22. Then reproduced that high scoring rate with a feckless team that GM Verbeek gave Eakins that resulted with the worst record in the NHL. It was only until Cronin showed up that Z's high end offense fell precipitously and it hasn't risen.
Since Carlsson entered the league with Cronin in 2023-24, you lack the necessary scope for comparison - which is why you went back nearly two decades/another era for comparison. Under inspection, Carlsson and Perry aren't apples to apples. I don't think you comprehend the offensive suppression that was being applied by Cronin. Cronin's offense isn't conducive to high-end, finesse scorers like Z, Carlsson, and Terry.
Apples to apples Comp with Z
- Hockey Ducks =
- @Rooch =
Let's now look at Terry's production.
Terry's production has considerably dropped since playing under Cronin's offensive scheme.
Apples to apples Comp with Terry
- Hockey Ducks =
- @Rooch =
As you can see, the offensive suppression with our young, scoring, finesse forwards are real. That's the "REAL" problem that isn't visible in your scope. I'm not saying Carlsson sucks. I'm saying Carlsson's offense is being suppressed, all of our finesse scoring forwards are being suppressed. On the whole, our whole offense has been suppressed under Cronin and we have Eakins tenure in Verbeekening Year 1 as a point of reference - which I pointed out last season!
Hoping Carlsson will improve over time isn't a viable strategy, which is your thought (see Perry example). Hope is not a strategy for success. Identifying the problem and fixing said problem is a more viable strategy for success. Recently, Gudas said that the team has made some changes. We're 4-1-1 (9 pts) in our last six games.
In the last few games, Carlsson and Z have been put together under a recent change system. Both are ppg players in the last four games. Both went scoreless against an above .500 team in Dallas. Terry has 1 point in the past four games, but had 11 points in the previous 15 games. How do we get Terry back on track while keeping Carlsson and Z on a ppg scoring rate is Cronin's next amendment.
Rooch
Registered User
- Jul 22, 2021
- 555
- 1,179
You proved my point.Oh bless your heart. I'm not the one in a tantrum about "Can we shift our focus to the REAL problems with this team?" Johnny, let's bring in the evidence!
That was your "snide" remark in your response to my post. I wasn't blaming Carlsson nor Z for their lack of offensive production. I blamed the coach and GM. Don't be whining about a response that directly addressed your posited thought that "it isn't the GM and coach."
Are you complaining about fairness? It's pretty ridiculous to mock me about stats, but you're allowed to use stats for your argument? You say many things can be true, but not when it comes to my thoughts - my thoughts are wrong. That's pretty rich of you. You've personally counted our interactions and I've no idea who you are.
You're using stats from a different era. Plain and simple. How about using a far more recent one with the same head coach as Carlsson instead of one nearly two decades ago in a different era of hockey? You can't refute it and that's why you're on this tantrum upon specific subject.
Let's do look at apple to apples.
It's crazy, but Perry getting more minutes = higher ppg rate. Carlsson is already "given" those 1st line minutes and he's stuck in a low ppg rate. That makes Carlsson's production look even worse in his first two seasons in the league. The stats prove these are not apples to apples comparisons.
Apples to apples Comp with Perry
- Hockey Ducks =
- @Rooch =
Let's say you complain about, "Well the team is in a rebuild and the roster sucks for Carlsson." This is where using a recent comparison matters with Zegras. Especially, since we can see Z's production pre-Cronin.
Note: The 2022-23 season was the season Verbeek gave nothing for the defense: no physicality, no top-4 type d-men, not enough natural RD's.
Comparing apples to apples, Z was able to produce at a higher rate when given more minutes between his first two seasons in the NHL. That pattern runs similar to Perry playing more minutes induces a higher production from his first years in the league.
Z was able to produce at a high scoring rate with a playoff potential team in 2021-22. Then reproduced that high scoring rate with a feckless team that GM Verbeek gave Eakins that resulted with the worst record in the NHL. It was only until Cronin showed up that Z's high end offense fell precipitously and it hasn't risen.
Since Carlsson entered the league with Cronin in 2023-24, you lack the necessary scope for comparison - which is why you went back nearly two decades/another era for comparison. Under inspection, Carlsson and Perry aren't apples to apples. I don't think you comprehend the offensive suppression that was being applied by Cronin. Cronin's offense isn't conducive to high-end, finesse scorers like Z, Carlsson, and Terry.
Apples to apples Comp with Z
- Hockey Ducks =
- @Rooch =
Let's now look at Terry's production.
Terry's production has considerably dropped since playing under Cronin's offensive scheme.
Apples to apples Comp with Terry
- Hockey Ducks =
- @Rooch =
As you can see, the offensive suppression with our young, scoring, finesse forwards are real. That's the "REAL" problem that isn't visible in your scope. I'm not saying Carlsson sucks. I'm saying Carlsson's offense is being suppressed, all of our finesse scoring forwards are being suppressed. On the whole, our whole offense has been suppressed under Cronin and we have Eakins tenure in Verbeekening Year 1 as a point of reference - which I pointed out last season!
Hoping Carlsson will improve over time isn't a viable strategy, which is your thought (see Perry example). Hope is not a strategy for success. Identifying the problem and fixing said problem is a more viable strategy for success. Recently, Gudas said that the team has made some changes. We're 4-1-1 (9 pts) in our last six games.
In the last few games, Carlsson and Z have been put together under a recent change system. Both are ppg players in the last four games. Both went scoreless against an above .500 team in Dallas. Terry has 1 point in the past four games, but had 11 points in the previous 15 games. How do we get Terry back on track while keeping Carlsson and Z on a ppg scoring rate is Cronin's next amendment.
I'm done with this. You win. Happy Thanksgiving.
Just to throw some charts at you...
What does this all mean? This team is likely buying Dostal a steak dinner almost every night. lol. They are dead last in expected scoring.
What does this all mean? This team is likely buying Dostal a steak dinner almost every night. lol. They are dead last in expected scoring.
ZegrassyKnoll
Registered User
- Dec 2, 2016
- 607
- 1,011
When it says Nov 24 is that all season up to the 24th, or the week of the 24th? I'm guessing the former.
Not really surprising, there have been some atrocious games this season lol
KelVarnsen
Registered User
What it means to me is the Ducks are a bad hockey team and only outstanding goaltending is keeping them from the ridiculously/hilariously bad hockey team level. Keep up the good work Cro!
2faded
Registered User
I like that 3rd line and actually think they'd be the 2nd best line.
…. No…. He doesn’t.
MMC
Global Moderator
Reveille1984
Registered User
- Dec 3, 2014
- 971
- 610
Not just bad, but basically we've been both the worst defensive and worst offensive team in the NHL in 5v5 hockey thus far. That is pretty impressive to pull off, thanks Cronin!
dracom
Registered User
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