KelVarnsen
Registered User
But but but Zegras is dying to be a Ranger!!!! But but but the Ducks traded his best friend and he wants out!!! But but but…….
Speculation: 2024-25 Roster thread
- Thread starter Leonardo87
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ZegrassyKnoll
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- Dec 2, 2016
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It would be really easy for somebody like Vatrano to give a non-answer to this, so it's cool to see him be so vocal.
I'm sorry for saying we should trade you at the TDL, Frank.
Dirk316
Registered User
Again nobody has named a player on the current roster that's more physical than Johnston. And the amount of cheap shots/abuse the team has taken since he's been on the roster has drastically been cut down. Is anyone actually willing to dent that? This team needs more players willing to throw big hits and drop the gloves in addition to having an enforcer. Yes there are better than Johnston but which one is currently available?
Deuce22
Registered User
I would argue that the fewer cheap shots against the Ducks were more due to the presence of Gudas than Johnston. Agree that the team needs more physical players, but guys that are bad at hockey aren't the answer. Having an "enforcer" that is so bad he is barely playable, just starts some random fights here and there doesn't move the needle for me. Hopefully guys like Gaucher and Warren become Ducks soon and fill this need.
These guys have worked hard , but leadership is the issue and it starts with Mr.Beaker, who has not given them the best support, coaching and roster wise .
Dirk316
Registered User
It was a combination of Johnston, Carrick and Gudas. Now one is gone with no replacement and you are left with an aging and injury prone undersized Gudas (who's not a fighter) Without Johnston in the lineup which most of you want you are left with Gudas only do you actually want that?
Deuce22
Registered User
No, but here’s where we differ. I don’t think Johnston’s fights really deter much. I also don’t want to ice a stiff just because he fights. Management likes Johnston so I think you’ll be getting what you want.
robbieboy3686
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- Jan 17, 2016
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CrazyDuck4u
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I've said this ten times over. Vatrano is a heart and soul guy.
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
Johnston doesn’t enforce. He comes over to scrums where liberties are being taken, then hugs people and tells them to stop. He’s not the guy who steps up after the cheap shots and takes a piece of the guy who did it though. Carrick and Strome were the guys stepping up that way last year.
He’s objectively bad at his job.
robbieboy3686
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- Jan 17, 2016
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He objectively doesn’t have to do his “ job often”
Because we don’t get cheap shot anymore, exactly because he’s on the team to begin with.
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
The Athletic did their contract efficiency ranking and it got me wondering about our individual player cards. Out of our four rookie d-men, only two qualified for the card rating in LaCombe and Minty.
These are their rookie production. I found the results very interesting. Maybe identifying LaCombe as a defensive d-man wasn't far off if you're using these ratings. Here are the rest of the ratings for the defense.
Upon closer inspection, the Athletic posts stats on these cards that do not match the raw production for this season. Some of it is inflated.
Hockey-reference Ducks stats
LaCombe: 2g + 15a = 17 pts, 129 blocks
Minty: 4g + 24a = 28 pts, 65 blocks
Welp, I tried to come up with other things to talk about, but my attention to detail negated that idea. On the whole, it kinda looks on point, but can't trust it now that I know the numbers are inflated.
These are their rookie production. I found the results very interesting. Maybe identifying LaCombe as a defensive d-man wasn't far off if you're using these ratings. Here are the rest of the ratings for the defense.
| Ducks Net Rating | 2024 | ||
|---|---|---|---|
| Defenseman | Offense | Defense | Net Rating |
| Gudas | 1 | 5 | 6 |
| Vaak | -4 | 1 | -3 |
| LaCombe | -5 | -1 | -6 |
| Minty | 1 | -7 | -6 |
| Fowler | -3 | -5 | -8 |
Upon closer inspection, the Athletic posts stats on these cards that do not match the raw production for this season. Some of it is inflated.
Hockey-reference Ducks stats
LaCombe: 2g + 15a = 17 pts, 129 blocks
Minty: 4g + 24a = 28 pts, 65 blocks
Welp, I tried to come up with other things to talk about, but my attention to detail negated that idea. On the whole, it kinda looks on point, but can't trust it now that I know the numbers are inflated.
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
I think we still get pretty routine cheap shots. And I think Carrick and Strome and Gudas were the ones who exacted revenge for them. I think Johnston does deescalate things when he’s on the ice, but I don’t think he provides any actual deterrent factor otherwise.
His hits are also pretty pointless, he rarely actually punished anyone past the first month of the season.
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Max Jones was did occasionally hit players. But he never fought or stuck up for teammates. I put him closer to the agitator category. His body language was also poor - any time there was a confrontation he'd meekly skate away with his head down.
Nice guy, but I won't miss him on the ice at all.
Because Johnston was there, Gudas was able to play his physical brand of hockey knowing that he wasn't going to fight heavyweights or being expected to enforce. Gudas is too valuable a player to do that. W/o Johnston, Gudas is fighting more and against bigger guys.
Carrick was a shell of himself last year, both in terms of enforcing and in other aspects of his game. He was much better the prior year. No doubt that was due to injury. And though he's game and courageous, Carrick's not really a heavyweight. He was often over matched in when protecting teammates. He was destined to be injured if he was the only enforcer.
Johnston is what he is. There are very few players who can do what he does and play a productive game in other aspects - Manson in his prime was the last guy on the ducks who filled that role and even he eventually fought less. Even Des (who I and others here thought was underrated as a player) probably doesn't fit that "both aspects" bill. Hockey analytics hate Des for some reason even though I thought he was decent on the ducks.
Unfortunately, the ducks roster is so young and undersized/soft, Johnston is a necessary part of the roster. Personally, I would have liked to see them pick up Jeannot who might have been a good alternative to Johnston (or at least allowed the ducks to ice Johnston less). That's the kind of player they could use in the bottom 6 (not a guy like Max Jones).
Hockey Duckie
Registered User
What are you talking about? Jones isn't the enforcer. We all know that and no one is saying that is Jones' role. The enforcer is Johnston, but we aren't seeing the enforcer hit nor fight like our previous enforcer in Des. Jones was used as an example of how Johnston should be delivering hits, especially in the limited minutes he's given. Love tapping and love hugging are traits that I attribute to our dedicated enforcer. Laying out heavier hits can wear down the opponent over time or cause that opponent to re-think how to play around said enforcer.
Wow. You really are underselling Des here compared to Johnston.
| Duck | Enforcers | |||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Player | Year | GP | G | A | Pts | +/- | ATOI | CF% |
| Des | 2019-20 | 59 | 7 | 6 | 13 | -1 | 9:47 | 44.0 |
| Des | 2020-21 (56-game Covid Season) | 49 | 5 | 5 | 10 | -7 | 11:19 | 44.6 |
| Des | 2021-22 | 61 | 5 | 5 | 10 | -9 | 11:38 | 41.0 |
| Johnston | 2023-24 | 68 | 1 | 3 | 4 | -12 | 8:12 | 41.6 |
The huge kicker here is that Des developed his game so that he can also play on the PK, which was how his ATOI increased. I think the only "hockey analytics" that hated Des so much were the Anaheim Calling (now Crash the Pond) guys and it looks like you're carrying their banner into today without actually looking up the analytics for comparison.
Manson fought less because GM Murray traded for Des. Murray wanted Manson on the ice more than in the sin bin and Des took on the role of fighting as well as the 5 minutes off the ice.
ZegrassyKnoll
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- Dec 2, 2016
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The Midnight Burrito
True Fan
Best #6 is probably Drysdale, right? Followed by Lovejoy and then maybe Sean Hill. Not exactly a distinguished number.
Once again, you're swinging at windmills. I never said Johnston was better than Des. In fact, I think the exact opposite. What I said was that even though I and others had a high opinion of Des, by many of the objective (analytics) standards Des is among the worst players in the league. At one point, Torts was getting criticize for playing him because he was so bad from an analytics perspective. So whether its Johnston or Des, you're icing a player who is not good at hockey other than enforcing. Saying that does not mean Des < Johnston.
And with respect to Jones, I was referring to the ineffectiveness of his overall game and the fact that his hitting was overrated given the lack of sand paper. I never said he was an enforcer or expected to be one. But he should have been a more physical presence and stuck up for teammates more. As between him and Carrick, I'd rather have Carrick because Carrick at least was willing to physically engage (though I prefer to have neither on the current roster).
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McDonald19
Registered User
One thing to note is opposing players are willing to fight Carrick and Strome. They won’t fight Johnston, so he would have to take an instigator penalty and then everyone would be mad at him for taking an extra penalty.
Hamilton Bulldogs
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- Jan 11, 2022
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Just have Gudas do this anytime someone does some nonsense:
I guarantee we won't be having much trouble from Kostin screwing around with the goalie again.
I guarantee we won't be having much trouble from Kostin screwing around with the goalie again.
ZegrassyKnoll
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- Dec 2, 2016
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There might be some kernel of truth to this but not sure you can really make this argument with much confidence.
Ross' ATOI was 8 minutes. In contrast Carrick was at 12 and Strome almost 16.
People probably fight those two more often because they're actually on the ice, and they're actually on the ice because they contribute something of value.
Johnston had 9 fights last year which was among league leaders (I believe Des lead the league with 11). So I reject the premise that Johnston can't/doesn't find dance partners.
Relatedly, Strome had 3 fights, Gudas 4, and Carrick 9 (two of which were for Edm).
