2024-25 Roster Thread #2: Midseasonnar

[Audible Velvet]

Thanks, AV. How much of a grain of salt should I take at hearing about the notorious Ulf Samuelsson criticizing Kimmo's defense as a member of the Flyers? It just seems odd.

I completely understand! It just stuck in my mind as one if those unprompted responses that catch you off guard and make you think. It’s another of outside vs. inside being so far off.
And damn, I butchered the poor man’s name again.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

It was said about Myers, and as pointed out about Kimmo. Someone else left (Filpula, maybe?) and demanded coaches work with him on skills drills to repair everything he'd lost playing here.

They do not develop or maintain skills here. Makes you wonder what a team loyalist like Couturier could have been had he been developed elsewhere. I think we see no difference with TK, that guy does his own thing. Fortunately, Brink is also doing what seems best. Unfortunately, Foerster isn't and Michkov isn't either. York was never an offensive dynamo and now all skill is gone from him.

Pretty certain I remember Lecavlier when he went to the kings.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Pretty certain I remember Lecavlier when he went to the kings.

THAT'S the guy. I couldn't remember which unwatchable bum it was lol

 

[BernieParent]

He you seen his xGF-GF/60 at ES in weekday games that start at 7:37 PM since November?

What day in November?

 

[ponder719]

What day in November?

Whichever one is most convenient for the argument.

 

[freakydallas13]

25 and under players, lmao. In like 2 weeks this team will have 2 less 25 and under players. And another turns 26 in May.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

25 and under players, lmao. In like 2 weeks this team will have 2 less 25 and under players. And another turns 26 in May.

Do we think the threshold will be changed to 26 then?

 

[dragonoffrost]

It's going to take a hell of a lot of a winning in REGULATION WIN STREAK. Figured you need to have that emphasized. As they are 5 below the 16th best team in wins in regulation.

View attachment 965875

And they promptly went out and got smoked by the Rangers in a 4 point game.

 

[deadhead]

And they promptly went out and got smoked by the Rangers in a 4 point game.

They weren't "smoked." It was one of those games, they went toe to toe, but missed some opportunities, Shesterkin was his usual self and the Rangers got some perfect deflections. They created more scoring chances than the Rangers but just couldn't cash in.

They were "smoked" by Pitt and Dallas, those are the only games the last month or so where they weren't competitive.

 

[ybnvs]

And they promptly went out and got smoked by the Rangers in a 4 point game.

Did you know, since the Cates line was put together, you could be saving a boatload by switching your car insurance to GEICO?

 

[MJL66]

They weren't "smoked." It was one of those games, they went toe to toe, but missed some opportunities, Shesterkin was his usual self and the Rangers got some perfect deflections. They created more scoring chances than the Rangers but just couldn't cash in.

They were "smoked" by Pitt and Dallas, those are the only games the last month or so where they weren't competitive.

You do know the score was 6-1? The team that cashes in on their opportunities more than the opposition is the team that wins. How many times have you stated that IF the Flyers had average goaltending, they'd be a playoff team. Now when the opposition goalie plays at a high level, which is normally the case with good teams, that doesn't count. It's not part of the equation. With the game on the line in the 3rd period, the Flyers got significantly outplayed. They got smoked. Delusions you have won't change that fact.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Man, if only there was a young/promising goalie available not too long ago that would have fit the potential contention window.

 

[deadhead]

You do know the score was 6-1? The team that cashes in on their opportunities more than the opposition is the team that wins. How many times have you stated that IF the Flyers had average goaltending, they'd be a playoff team. Now when the opposition goalie plays at a high level, which is normally the case with good teams, that doesn't count. It's not part of the equation. With the game on the line in the 3rd period, the Flyers got significantly outplayed. They got smoked. Delusions you have won't change that fact.

It was 3-1 until the 3rd period before the Rangers scored on a long shot.
Good teams outplay bad teams all the time and get beat, sometimes by sizeable margins. Doesn't make the bad team better than the good team.

When you're rebuilding, wins and losses don't matter as much as "how you play the game."
Because you're developing and evaluating young players, and you want to see them do the things that win games. When the team gets more talent, you'll still need to do those things.

As long as they "win" the battle of possession and control, i.e., xGF% and HDCF% over 50% I'm happy.
Young players will learn how to finish with experience, you can fix STs easier than 5x5 play, and goalies are their own world in any case.

If you play in your own end and are dominated, winning with a few lucky goals or a great goalie performance is not sustainable.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

"We want to grow them, but we’re trying to win hockey games, too, as we’re involved in the season.” - John Tortorella in November of '23.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

As long as they "win" the battle of possession and control, i.e., xGF% and HDCF% over 50% I'm happy.

Man. That is just not how these things should be used in single game samples. You can set an arbitrary threshold if you want, but it's got to be better than this. Everything from 42-58 or so is a pretty even possession game to me. Cut it to 44-56 if you want to be a little more strict, but there is no meaningful signal to be found in these tiny samples.

That goes at least treble for HD metrics. You're talking about a total of ~20 5v5 events.

 

[renberg]

As soon as the Flyers run into a decent club, their weaknesses get exposed and they get their asses kicked. 6-1 was not a mirage. They're not very well managed on the ice. Tortorella's boring rope a dope style of play keeps the score down but the Flyers' inability to get goals is a killer. The blender for line changes and horrible PP are symptoms of a poorly run club.
This bunch is on the verge of a losing streak. After the Four Nations tournament clubs will start to get more serious about not taking nights off. Then the Flyers will nt be sneaking up on anyone any longer.

 

[freakydallas13]

Do we think the threshold will be changed to 26 then?

 

[Lord Defect]

I wanted to post this one! That guy could skate to a spot in the blink if an eye. Then he would stand there and blink for a moment while he figured out what spot to speed to next.

What was they guys name from Detroit? Something Raymond? Dude was a bolt of lightning without the bottle.

 

[Lord Defect]

What exactly is the rush?
Getting rid of Hayes and TDA were no brainers. Anything you get is a plus.
Trading Laughton and Risto who aren't UFAs? No rush.

Who did they resign, Sanheim and Couts were before Briere.
Tippett and TK, both at rates that will be below market if the cap rises by $9M as is expected.
Tippett 6.2% of cap would be $5M in 2019, when JVR was getting $7M
TK will be 9%, or $7.2M in 2019 when Hayes was getting $7.14M
And if the cap keeps rising, these contracts will look very cheap in 3-4 years.

What’s the rush? They’ve been in f***ing hockey purgatory since 09

 

[Lord Defect]

Which is why I prefer to extend players (the devil you know) rather than sign FAs, unless one falls into your lap at a bargain price.

Or how about:
Teravainen (30) 3x5.4M
Toffoli (32) 4x6M
Tarasenko (33) 2x4.75M
DeBrusk (28) 7x5.5
Bertuzzi (29) 4x5.5
or
Tippett (25) 8x6.2

We having kids that can play at a fraction of the costs you listed. For a team that should be rebuilding, you shouldn’t be extending trash for the sake of not signing expensive, aged, free agents.
You play the kids, struggle through that, and either grow a good team or gather good draft picks.

 

[Lord Defect]

What Briere is doing isn't what Hextall did.

Hextall had a team that was in between rebuilding and competing, and he basically sat on his hands and didn't move to blow it up or try to win now. His team lacked a core of young talent, and its best players were at the end of their peak years.

Fletcher took Hextall's team and by making win now moves squeezed out one good season, and if COVID doesn't happen, maybe a second. But the window was already closing.

Briere inherited a young team and made it younger, accumulated draft picks like Hextall, but has done it over three drafts (2023-2025) where Hextall split up his picks, 2014-2015, then 2017-2018.

So instead of 6 starters 25 and under, they have 11. As they age out, there are (5) 1st rd picks behind them.

Hextall had a fun exciting team with promise. This team is like waiting for the dead horse to get up and die again.

 

[Audible Velvet]

What was they guys name from Detroit? Something Raymond? Dude was a bolt of lightning without the bottle.

Completely blanking on this one

 

[MJL66]

It was 3-1 until the 3rd period before the Rangers scored on a long shot.
Good teams outplay bad teams all the time and get beat, sometimes by sizeable margins. Doesn't make the bad team better than the good team.

When you're rebuilding, wins and losses don't matter as much as "how you play the game."
Because you're developing and evaluating young players, and you want to see them do the things that win games. When the team gets more talent, you'll still need to do those things.

As long as they "win" the battle of possession and control, i.e., xGF% and HDCF% over 50% I'm happy.
Young players will learn how to finish with experience, you can fix STs easier than 5x5 play, and goalies are their own world in any case.

If you play in your own end and are dominated, winning with a few lucky goals or a great goalie performance is not sustainable.

One, the Flyers aren't rebuilding. Two and most importantly, it goes to your opinion that if the Flyers had a good goalie and two more decent starters, they'd be a top 8 team. The score was 3-1 going into the 3rd. You would expect pushback from the Flyers down 2 goals and the opposition likely taking their foot off the gas. That was not the case. The Rangers had more shot attempts and more scoring chances in the 3rd period. There were ton of changes where the Rangers were really close to scoring. With a little more puck luck, the Rangers could've had even more than 6 goals in the game. The rebuilding and evaluating is just smoke from this franchise. The Rangers were clearly the better team last night. The Flyers don't match up against better teams and and average goaltending and a few good starters isn't going to change that.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

Don't usually watch him, but this rant made me laugh

Someone should tell this dude it's not a rebuild or that it was a lie

Tippett, Farabee and York have all taken a step back. Tororella is currently stalling the development momentum of Michkov. There isn't a single young Flyers player that from the first year of Tortorella until now where you say that player has taken a strong leap in development and is more than they've been to get excited about. They are being taught to play a non winning style of hockey. The next coach will have to come in and drastically change how they play if they ever get any top talent. This is the reality that you fail to see.

You could say cates went from a 20pt player to a 30pt player under John. Plan the parade

 

[BillDineen]

Torts is liking Abols. If he keeps it up:

Foerster-Cates-Brink
Tippett-Poehling-TK
Farabee-Couts-Michkov
Laughton-Abols-Hathaway

Frosty back to the doghouse