2024-25 Roster Thread #2: Midseasonnar

[SolidSnakeUS]

He's not wrong either, it's sad when he's the person with the most sense out of all of our media

He's not wrong. The Briere interview is him clearly talking out both sides of his mouth, while bumbling through the answers, showing everyone that he doesn't know shit.

 

[trostol]

who was it we traded away and they came out as saying after that the new team had to undo EVERY thing the player was taught in Philly..

was it someone who went to Preds ? i remember the comment but not the player name anymore..

Myers i believe

i want to know...what happened to..."don't fall in love with a player"

 

[deadhead]

Thanks for your reply, dead. I agree that the past GMs were impatient to move the team ahead and that patience is a key factor to rebuild properly. But patience is largely required by those outside the front office while the executives take the many steps in rebuilding. Patience can cloak indecisive inaction, which is becoming increasingly apparent under Briere. Rebuilding is incompatible with "I like our club", even if he thinks that this is part of negotiations.

I do like some of the few things Briere has done, including the Provorov and Walker trades and, of course, not just picking Michkov but orchestrating the meetings with him to assess his desire to come to North America asap. But as described ad nauseum, Briere's seeming impatience resulted in a questionable leveraging of a prospective whose perceived value was sky high. I know you disagree with this point, but I'll assert it anyway.

You are right that the Flyers have a high proportion of <25yo players on their roster, which is a positive. However, none save Michkov had star potential and aren't blossoming at present into such. Be patient with them, you will say, and I can't entirely disagree given their age. I would be more patient if there were prospects with high upside pushing them, but alas the Flyers prospect system is now in the lower half of the league now that Michkov has graduated. Like I posted, the top two prospects have tempered expectations on their impact to the roster, which is far below the Flyers' desperate need for high talent on the top line/pairing.

When the FO is content to draft, trade for, produce, and ice Robins and Alfreds, serious Stanley Cup aspirations are a vain hope.

"Star" potential. Flyers have TK, 12th in ES scoring, Michkov. Sanheim/York a legitimate 1st pair.
Not sure how much more "star" quality players they need (v want, more is always better than less).

They have 6 players scoring at a top 6 level (top 144, 2nd line median), and 5 more at a third line level (top 240, 3rd line median). That's great depth.
They're 12th in ES scoring, 15th in xGF/60 for the season.
Since 11/25, they're 2nd in ES scoring, 6th in xGF/60
All three D-pairs are putting up exceptional metrics.

There's still plenty of work to be done, but the arrow is pointing up.
Fix the STs, figure out the goalies and continue to add speed.

 

[trostol]

missing the forest for the trees

 

[Audible Velvet]

who was it we traded away and they came out as saying after that the new team had to undo EVERY thing the player was taught in Philly..

was it someone who went to Preds ? i remember the comment but not the player name anymore..

Ulf Samuelsson said it about Kimmo after he went to Chicago. Kimmo! As well as the Phil Unicorn statement.

Edit: I spelled the poor man’s name f’d, sorry

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's going to take a hell of a lot of a winning in REGULATION WIN STREAK. Figured you need to have that emphasized. As they are 5 below the 16th best team in wins in regulation.

View attachment 965875

The sum of their "good streak" shooting heater since they discovered one (maybe two! after HALF a season) line is that their playoff chances have increased from 6% to 15%.


Looks impressive if you think "That's double!" but doubling a terrible number is actually not impressive, and neither is an 85% chance of missing while at their best.

 

[Beef Invictus]

who was it we traded away and they came out as saying after that the new team had to undo EVERY thing the player was taught in Philly..

was it someone who went to Preds ? i remember the comment but not the player name anymore..

It was said about Myers, and as pointed out about Kimmo. Someone else left (Filpula, maybe?) and demanded coaches work with him on skills drills to repair everything he'd lost playing here.

They do not develop or maintain skills here. Makes you wonder what a team loyalist like Couturier could have been had he been developed elsewhere. I think we see no difference with TK, that guy does his own thing. Fortunately, Brink is also doing what seems best. Unfortunately, Foerster isn't and Michkov isn't either. York was never an offensive dynamo and now all skill is gone from him.

 

[MJL66]

"Star" potential. Flyers have TK, 12th in ES scoring, Michkov. Sanheim/York a legitimate 1st pair.
Not sure how much more "star" quality players they need (v want, more is always better than less).

They have 6 players scoring at a top 6 level (top 144, 2nd line median), and 5 more at a third line level (top 240, 3rd line median). That's great depth.
They're 12th in ES scoring, 15th in xGF/60 for the season.
Since 11/25, they're 2nd in ES scoring, 6th in xGF/60
All three D-pairs are putting up exceptional metrics.

There's still plenty of work to be done, but the arrow is pointing up.
Fix the STs, figure out the goalies and continue to add speed.

Sanheim and York are not a legitimate 1st defense pairing. They are both 2/3 NHL defenseman who are hidden behind a conservative defense first style. You don't have a legitimate 1st pair if you don't have a legit #1 NHL defenseman. The arrow is not pointing up. It's pointing down. When all the arrow points to is a team that is a bubble playoff team and currently has a 15% chance of making the playoffs. With no future path to legitimate contention, that is not pointing up. You no matter how many times it is explained to you. You're incapable of grasping that where the Flyers are heading is the worst possible position that a team can be in. Stuck in purgatory between being completely incapable of contending and no realistic chance to add more elite level talent.

 

[deadhead]

Myers i believe

i want to know...what happened to..."don't fall in love with a player"

Then they found out why they had to undo everything, there was "no there there."

 

[Curufinwe]

To think they could be going into a playoff push this spring with

Buium-Sanheim
York-Risto
Seeler-Drysdale
Zamula

 

[deadhead]

Sanheim and York are not a legitimate 1st defense pairing. They are both 2/3 NHL defenseman who are hidden behind a conservative defense first style. You don't have a legitimate 1st pair if you don't have a legit #1 NHL defenseman. The arrow is not pointing up. It's pointing down. When all the arrow points to is a team that is a bubble playoff team and currently has a 15% chance of making the playoffs. With no future path to legitimate contention, that is not pointing up. You no matter how many times it is explained to you. You're incapable of grasping that where the Flyers are heading is the worst possible position that a team can be in. Stuck in purgatory between being completely incapable of contending and no realistic chance to add more elite level talent.

There is nothing conservative about this defense, this is not Hakstol, Berube or even AV.

The focus is blocking shots to limit pucks to the net, and forcing turnovers, then passing or skating out of the D-zone to flip the ice, which is why they create so many chances off transition.

It's still a work in progress, too many times I see D-men just throw the puck up the boards out of habit, or attempt to throw it out of the D-zone without looking even when they have time to skate a couple strides and view the ice and look for an outlet target.

 

[MJL66]

There is nothing conservative about this defense, this is not Hakstol, Berube or even AV.

The focus is blocking shots to limit pucks to the net, and forcing turnovers, then passing or skating out of the D-zone to flip the ice, which is why they create so many chances off transition.

It's still a work in progress, too many times I see D-men just throw the puck up the boards out of habit, or attempt to throw it out of the D-zone without looking even when they have time to skate a couple strides and view the ice and look for an outlet target.

You're wrong. They all played a more aggressive style except for Hakstol who had to go to a 1-2-2 forecheck predominantly due to a lack of lower line talent. Hakstol coached his team to the playoffs with only one line. Tortorella plays a conservative defensive first style and system. He always has.

 

[Rebels57]

To think they could be going into a playoff push this spring with

Buium-Sanheim
York-Risto
Seeler-Drysdale
Zamula

Luchanko over Buium is going to haunt us for at least a decade. Maybe longer.

It's worse than Patrick over Makar. At least we went with the consensus best prospect at that time.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Luchanko over Buium is going to haunt us for at least a decade. Maybe longer.

It's worse than Patrick over Makar. At least we went with the consensus best prospect at that time.

 

[Beef Invictus]

There is nothing conservative about this defense, this is not Hakstol, Berube or even AV.

The focus is blocking shots to limit pucks to the net, and forcing turnovers, then passing or skating out of the D-zone to flip the ice, which is why they create so many chances off transition.

It's still a work in progress, too many times I see D-men just throw the puck up the boards out of habit, or attempt to throw it out of the D-zone without looking even when they have time to skate a couple strides and view the ice and look for an outlet target.

His entire approach to hockey is indeed deeply conservative. Flipping the puck out and then resetting on defense to get back to blocking shots has been a hallmark of Tortorella hockey for close to 20 years. It's not a work in progress leading somewhere else. We've arrived.

 

[MJL66]

His entire approach to hockey is indeed deeply conservative. Flipping the puck out and then resetting on defense to get back to blocking shots has been a hallmark of Tortorella hockey for close to 20 years. It's not a work in progress leading somewhere else. We've arrived.

That's correct. This is it. A team that can be competitive but struggles to even make the playoffs. Tortorella is well past his expiration date.

 

[BernieParent]

Don't usually watch him, but this rant made me laugh

 

[deadhead]

Interesting article on block shots from last season

To front or box out? Looking at how NHL teams systematically block shots

I got stuck in a tactical wormhole this week and you have to come with me.

www.shapshotshockey.com

Man v Zone

Systems Analyst: Breaking down the best defensive strategies for playoffs

Which defensive zone systems win Stanley Cups, and which have had less playoff success? Justin Bourne, with help from Andrew Brewer, looks at recent trends, what it means for this year's playoffs, and which teams may be most vulnerable.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[deadhead]

If York/Sanheim aren't a 1st pair, who is?
Among all D-pairs with 500+ 5x5 minutes, ranking:
xGF% 6th HDCF% 4th, xGA/60: 3rd, HDCA/60: 3rd
xGFrel 11th, HDCFrel 13th

Since they routinely draw the toughest matchups, can't credit this to being sheltered.

 

[BernieParent]

"Star" potential. Flyers have TK, 12th in ES scoring, Michkov. Sanheim/York a legitimate 1st pair.
Not sure how much more "star" quality players they need (v want, more is always better than less).

They have 6 players scoring at a top 6 level (top 144, 2nd line median), and 5 more at a third line level (top 240, 3rd line median). That's great depth.
They're 12th in ES scoring, 15th in xGF/60 for the season.
Since 11/25, they're 2nd in ES scoring, 6th in xGF/60
All three D-pairs are putting up exceptional metrics.

There's still plenty of work to be done, but the arrow is pointing up.
Fix the STs, figure out the goalies and continue to add speed.

Thanks again for your follow up, dead. Konecny does have star power but will be 28 in about 6 weeks. Michkov is getting there and will shine brighter when surrounded by top talent. Sanheim/York may be playing like a 1st pairing but are far from an ideal top pairing for a team that a Cup-aspiring team would ice.

That is not close to enough. I know you trust a Borg-like team construct of good players. I do not and am confident that NHL history is on my side.

 

[BernieParent]

Ulf Samuelsson said it about Kimo after he went to Chicago. Kimo! As well as the Phil Unicorn statement.

Sorry for my lack of reading comprehension. Are you saying that Ulf Samuelsson indicated that Chicago had to reteach Timonen? Or did you mean Kjell Samuelsson (Flyers) criticizing the Nashville version of Kimmo?

 

[Audible Velvet]

His entire approach to hockey is indeed deeply conservative. Flipping the puck out and then resetting on defense to get back to blocking shots has been a hallmark of Tortorella hockey for close to 20 years. It's not a work in progress leading somewhere else. We've arrived.

I don’t gamble, but would be tempted to wager that Risto getting PP shifts is dependent upon the auto-dump when you get to the blue line. Might as well just give in to weird speculation at this point in the story.

Sorry for my lack of reading comprehension. Are you saying that Ulf Samuelsson indicated that Chicago had to reteach Timonen? Or did you mean Kjell Samuelsson (Flyers) criticizing the Nashville version of Kimmo?

It was Ulf. I remember the interviewer bringing up Kimo, and that was the response. Paraphrased breaking of habits statement. Too far back in time to remember specific broadcast, but I want to say it was a woman doing the segment.

Edit to say: you never need to apologize, good Earth citizen.

 

[BernieParent]

I don’t gamble, but would be tempted to wager that Risto getting PP shifts is dependent upon the auto-dump when you get to the blue line. Might as well just give in to weird speculation at this point in the story.


It was Ulf. I remember the interviewer bringing up Kimo, and that was the response. Paraphrased breaking of habits statement. Too far back in time to remember specific broadcast, but I want to say it was a woman doing the segment.

Edit to say: you never need to apologize, good Earth citizen.

Thanks, AV. How much of a grain of salt should I take at hearing about the notorious Ulf Samuelsson criticizing Kimmo's defense as a member of the Flyers? It just seems odd.

 

[mr figgles]

Buium doesn't even seem small to me. He's a similar size to Brian Leetch.

Yeah, but when the choice is between Brian Leetch and Mike Fischer…