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2024-25 Roster Thread #2: Midseasonnar

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BiggE said:
As a fan who was 10 when they last won a Cup, no, I’m not at all satisfied with just making the playoffs.

I understand that only 1 team can win it all, but I at least want a team with a legit shot to do it. We had that in the mid to late 80s, again in the mid to late 90s and with Hitch’s teams in 03 & 04. Since then, the only time they went into a season where I thought they had even a shot at a Cup was 2005-06 and 09-10.

Fifteen f***ing years and still going nowhere. Oh, what did you say? Cates is playing well, and if they just had a pp, and if they just had consistent goaltending….STUFF IT!! No one with half a brain is buying this bullshit. They need more TALENT, they need a competent head coach, they need to bring in people who can develop the talent. Until they do, they will continue to drive around in circles going nowhere.
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If Lurie and Roseman ran the Eagles the way that the Flyers have been mismanaged over the last two decades, they'd fear for their lives if they ever came within the Philadelphia city limits. From top to bottom the Flyers organization has been totally mismanaged. They're totally conning some of the fans who are too stupid to know what good hockey is.
 
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renberg said:
If Lurie and Roseman ran the Eagles the way that the Flyers have been mismanaged over the last two decades, they'd fear for their lives if they ever came within the Philadelphia city limits. From top to bottom the Flyers organization has been totally mismanaged. They're totally conning some of the fans who are too stupid to know what good hockey is.
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accept the eagles never tanked and they are adding young players just like flyers are, how is it any different?
 
They've committed to youth, to tank, they'd have to strip the roster and wouldn't be competitive until 2030 or later - it takes that long to rebuild through tanking if you strip a roster down to the studs. Anaheim has picked in the top 10 for six years and still suck despite a top young goalie. Chicago is in their 4th year of tankdom. San Jose in their 5th year. And so on.

Reason it takes so long is you have to be incredibly lucky with a tank (NJ landing #1 twice) and have the right players on board the years you tank. Then you have to wait for those players to develop, and surround them with other young talent. So unless you're both extremely lucky and make no mistakes, you're going to have wasted years. So to get 3 top players, you might have to pick in the top 5 for 5 or 6 drafts.

Take Chicago:
2004: Barker #3, 2005: Skille #7, 2006: Toews #3, 2007: Kane #1, made the POs in 2008, SC in 2009.
That's probably the fastest exit from a tank or record.
Pitt:
1984: Lemieux #1, 1985: Simpson #2, 1986: Zalapski #4, 1987: Joseph #5, 1988: Shannon #4, 1990: Jagr #5, won the Cup 1990, 1991.
2002: Whitney #5, 2003: Fleury #1, 2004: Malkin #2, 2005: Crosby #1, 2006: Staal #2, won the Cup in 2008.

Now what are the odds that a tank will end up with you getting Lemieux/Jagr or Fleury/Malkin/Crosby?
With the lottery, slim and none.

Edmonton
2010: Hall #1, 2011: RNH #1, 2012: Yakupov #1, 2013: Nurse #7, 2014: Draisaitl #3, 2015: McDavid #1, 2016: Puljijari #4, 2018: Bouchard #10, 2019: Broberg #8
13 years to lose in the SC Finals!
 
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deadhead said:
They've committed to youth, to tank, they'd have to strip the roster and wouldn't be competitive until 2030 or later - it takes that long to rebuild through tanking if you strip a roster down to the studs. Anaheim has picked in the top 10 for six years and still suck despite a top young goalie. Chicago is in their 4th year of tankdom. San Jose in their 5th year. And so on.

Reason it takes so long is you have to be incredibly lucky with a tank (NJ landing #1 twice) and have the right players on board the years you tank. Then you have to wait for those players to develop, and surround them with other young talent. So unless you're both extremely lucky and make no mistakes, you're going to have wasted years. So to get 3 top players, you might have to pick in the top 5 for 5 or 6 drafts.

Take Chicago:
2004: Barker #3, 2005: Skille #7, 2006: Toews #3, 2007: Kane #1, made the POs in 2008, SC in 2009.
That's probably the fastest exit from a tank or record.
Pitt:
1984: Lemieux #1, 1985: Simpson #2, 1986: Zalapski #4, 1987: Joseph #5, 1988: Shannon #4, 1990: Jagr #5, won the Cup 1990, 1991.
2002: Whitney #5, 2003: Fleury #1, 2004: Malkin #2, 2005: Crosby #1, 2006: Staal #2, won the Cup in 2008.

Now what are the odds that a tank will end up with you getting Lemieux/Jagr or Fleury/Malkin/Crosby?
With the lottery, slim and none.

Edmonton
2010: Hall #1, 2011: RNH #1, 2012: Yakupov #1, 2013: Nurse #7, 2014: Draisaitl #3, 2015: McDavid #1, 2016: Puljijari #4, 2018: Bouchard #10, 2019: Broberg #8
13 years to lose in the SC Finals!
Click to expand...

Now do the Flyers. How long has it been for them?
 
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tucson83 said:
accept the eagles never tanked and they are adding young players just like flyers are, how is it any different?
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Hey tucson83. Been a while. Really weird you started posting again when another poster started posting again. Anyway I’d say they’re different because they play two different sports with two different roster sizes and two different salary cap structures.
 
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BiggE said:
As a fan who was 10 when they last won a Cup, no, I’m not at all satisfied with just making the playoffs.

I understand that only 1 team can win it all, but I at least want a team with a legit shot to do it. We had that in the mid to late 80s, again in the mid to late 90s and with Hitch’s teams in 03 & 04. Since then, the only time they went into a season where I thought they had even a shot at a Cup was 2005-06 and 09-10.

Fifteen f***ing years and still going nowhere. Oh, what did you say? Cates is playing well, and if they just had a pp, and if they just had consistent goaltending….STUFF IT!! No one with half a brain is buying this bullshit. They need more TALENT, they need a competent head coach, they need to bring in people who can develop the talent. Until they do, they will continue to drive around in circles going nowhere.
Click to expand...

Right, I'm supposed to celebrate because it took them 30 games to find a line, and then another 15 games to put another obvious line back together?

Oh boy. Plan the parade.
 
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ponder719 said:
Now do the Flyers. How long has it been for them?
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That's because they fall into "we'll patch our way into the playoffs" group.

Holmgren had two golden opportunities to tank, after the Carter/Richards trades and after 2018-19.
Hextall was given a mandate to rebuildin 2014 and stopped after two TDL trades, then traded Schenn in the summer of 2017.

The optimal time to tank is after a run with a veteran team where you trade the veterans at the end of their contracts, amass a war chest of assets and inevitably finish in the top 5 for a few years. Holmgren had two opportunities to pursue that strategy and blew both of them. Hextall was given a mandate and refused to bite the bullet.

This team is 3rd youngest in the NHL, only two over 30 veterans in the top 13 (i.e. top 9/top 4), Couts and Risto, so there's no group of aging veterans you can deal to start a rebuild - they're already half way through one. Only tradeable assets are Laughton and Risto.
 
deadhead said:
That's because they fall into "we'll patch our way into the playoffs" group.

Holmgren had two golden opportunities to tank, after the Carter/Richards trades and after 2018-19.
Hextall was given a mandate to rebuildin 2014 and stopped after two TDL trades, then traded Schenn in the summer of 2017.

The optimal time to tank is after a run with a veteran team where you trade the veterans at the end of their contracts, amass a war chest of assets and inevitably finish in the top 5 for a few years. Holmgren had two opportunities to pursue that strategy and blew both of them. Hextall was given a mandate and refused to bite the bullet.

This team is 3rd youngest in the NHL, only two over 30 veterans in the top 13 (i.e. top 9/top 4), Couts and Risto, so there's no group of aging veterans you can deal to start a rebuild - they're already half way through one. Only tradeable assets are Laughton and Risto.
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That's worked out so great, hasn't it?
 
tucson83 said:
accept the eagles never tanked and they are adding young players just like flyers are, how is it any different?
Click to expand...
The Eagles actually draft and DEVELOP talent. They know their weaknesses and either draft or trade or sign a free agent for it. That's from a non Eagles fan.
 
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Forget about draft, and develop boys. They aren’t going to be doing that.

I am curious when little Danny decides to actually bring in some talent in other ways then.

Sergachev
Askarov
Jiricek
Chychrun
Weren’t there rumors for Rossi last year?
Rumors of Byram or Pattersson available

Lazy POS
 
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Ugh I just thought of a dreadful idea. They've been so focused on emulating the Islanders.... They are now beating them..

Rebuild is over. Raise the banner.
 
deadhead said:
That's because they fall into "we'll patch our way into the playoffs" group.

Holmgren had two golden opportunities to tank, after the Carter/Richards trades and after 2018-19.
Hextall was given a mandate to rebuildin 2014 and stopped after two TDL trades, then traded Schenn in the summer of 2017.

The optimal time to tank is after a run with a veteran team where you trade the veterans at the end of their contracts, amass a war chest of assets and inevitably finish in the top 5 for a few years. Holmgren had two opportunities to pursue that strategy and blew both of them. Hextall was given a mandate and refused to bite the bullet.

This team is 3rd youngest in the NHL, only two over 30 veterans in the top 13 (i.e. top 9/top 4), Couts and Risto, so there's no group of aging veterans you can deal to start a rebuild - they're already half way through one. Only tradeable assets are Laughton and Risto.
Click to expand...
A team can't possibly be half way through a rebuild when there is no viable future path to cup contention in their future. What they're almost through is the pause they brang on themselves due to their own incompetence. Soon the cap will get better and they can resume their status quo. Leading right back into the same cycle they've been on for over a decade. You say it takes 5 years to tank and be competitive. Every year they waste adds another year to that. 15 years and counting.

dragonoffrost said:
The Eagles actually draft and DEVELOP talent. They know their weaknesses and either draft or trade or sign a free agent for it. That's from a non Eagles fan.
Click to expand...
Football is different. You can routinely draft quality starters in later rounds of the draft.
 
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deadhead said:
They've committed to youth, to tank, they'd have to strip the roster and wouldn't be competitive until 2030 or later - it takes that long to rebuild through tanking if you strip a roster down to the studs. Anaheim has picked in the top 10 for six years and still suck despite a top young goalie. Chicago is in their 4th year of tankdom. San Jose in their 5th year. And so on.

Reason it takes so long is you have to be incredibly lucky with a tank (NJ landing #1 twice) and have the right players on board the years you tank. Then you have to wait for those players to develop, and surround them with other young talent. So unless you're both extremely lucky and make no mistakes, you're going to have wasted years. So to get 3 top players, you might have to pick in the top 5 for 5 or 6 drafts.

Take Chicago:
2004: Barker #3, 2005: Skille #7, 2006: Toews #3, 2007: Kane #1, made the POs in 2008, SC in 2009.
That's probably the fastest exit from a tank or record.
Pitt:
1984: Lemieux #1, 1985: Simpson #2, 1986: Zalapski #4, 1987: Joseph #5, 1988: Shannon #4, 1990: Jagr #5, won the Cup 1990, 1991.
2002: Whitney #5, 2003: Fleury #1, 2004: Malkin #2, 2005: Crosby #1, 2006: Staal #2, won the Cup in 2008.

Now what are the odds that a tank will end up with you getting Lemieux/Jagr or Fleury/Malkin/Crosby?
With the lottery, slim and none.

Edmonton
2010: Hall #1, 2011: RNH #1, 2012: Yakupov #1, 2013: Nurse #7, 2014: Draisaitl #3, 2015: McDavid #1, 2016: Puljijari #4, 2018: Bouchard #10, 2019: Broberg #8
13 years to lose in the SC Finals!
Click to expand...

Got news for you, they're already not going to be competitive until well beyond 2030. The method you and the Flyers are advocating is Hextallian. It is endless. 2030, 2050, 2130. Name any year in the distant future, and they'll be no closer to winning at that time using their current philosophies.
 
deadhead said:
The optimal time to tank is after a run with a veteran team where you trade the veterans at the end of their contracts, amass a war chest of assets and inevitably finish in the top 5 for a few years. Holmgren had two opportunities to pursue that strategy and blew both of them. Hextall was given a mandate and refused to bite the bullet.
Click to expand...

I feel like there's a saying to the effect of "the best time to start was when things went wrong, the next best time is now."

It's the next best time, and it's not going to get to be a better one. Suggesting that they shouldn't is capitulation to mediocrity, and as fans, we shouldn't be supporting that.
 
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Beef Invictus said:
Got news for you, they're already not going to be competitive until well beyond 2030. The method you and the Flyers are advocating is Hextallian. It is endless. 2030, 2050, 2130. Name any year in the distant future, and they'll be no closer to winning at that time using their current philosophies.
Click to expand...
but Bobby Clarke will still be the foundational pillar.. 🤣🤣🤣
 
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