2024-25 Roster Thread #2: Midseasonnar

[MJL66]

If they had average, not great, just league average, they'd have made the POs last year and they'd be in the POs this season.
So far, in 44 games, they have given up 29 more goals than xGA.
With league average goaltending, they'd probably have 48-50 points, close to a tie with TB and ahead of Ottawa.

It doesn't make them a SC contender, you still want to get to a 105 point level from 90-95.
But it would better reflect the actual talent on this roster.

Now from a rebuilding vantage point, that isn't a bad thing, #12 last year and probably #10-12 this season unless Ersson goes on a goalie "heater."

Just being a playoff bubble team is not playing at a high level. At least not by my definition. You've really OD'ed on the orange Kool aid. You're in desperate need of some orange narcan. The actual talent on this team is mediocre.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[Magua]

 

[MJL66]

Am I the last one to hear that there was lingering anger toward Hextall from Clarke over the 2006 draft? I have no memory of this being brought up, but I’m sure others do.

In my view it wasn't really just about that draft. It was about Hextall freezing out the media and the country club and trying to change everything that is gospel in Flyerland. That Clarke holds as a church.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

No, my stance is that there were no whispers circulating inside the hockey community. If there was, it would've been reported by numerous credible sources. Your remaining comments here are unintelligent. Credible reporters are not going to be swayed off of the story by the anecdotal reasons you list. As if it was the mafia or something. LOL

According to multiple sources in the McCagg article, there certainly were whispers inside the hockey community concerning Patrick’s character issues.

But not every character issue is going to be reported as national news, especially when it’s an 18 yr old kid involved.

Things can be true even if they don’t make the national news.

Is Darren Dreger or a reporter of that ilk really going to write a big story about rumors of an 18 yr old draft prospect being a bad teammate, or a big partier, for example?

I don’t think so. That doesn’t mean those whispers aren’t circulating inside hockey circles.

Guess what? After Patrick became a Flyer, Russ & Anthony on Snow the Goalie also hinted they were aware of character issues with Patrick while he was on the Flyers.

That supports the reporting in the McCagg article.

Saying there were “no whispers circulating inside the hockey community” about Patrick’s character simply because those whispers didn’t make national news seems like a convenient excuse to discredit something you don’t want to believe.

This is reminiscent of how you also swore Patrick didn’t have migraine issues until he reached the NHL, which wasn’t true.

 

[Beef Invictus]

According to multiple sources in the McCagg article, there certainly were whispers inside the hockey community concerning Patrick’s character issues.

But not every character issue is going to be reported as national news, especially when it’s an 18 yr old kid involved.

Things can be true even if they don’t make the national news.

Is Darren Dreger or a reporter of that ilk really going to write a big story about rumors of an 18 yr old draft prospect being a bad teammate, or a big partier, for example?

I don’t think so. That doesn’t mean those whispers aren’t circulating inside hockey circles.

Guess what? After Patrick became a Flyer, Russ & Anthony on Snow the Goalie also hinted they were aware of character issues with Patrick while he was on the Flyers.

That supports the reporting in the McCagg article.

Saying there were “no whispers circulating inside the hockey community” about Patrick’s character simply because those whispers didn’t make national news seems like a convenient excuse to discredit something you don’t want to believe.

This is reminiscent of how you also swore Patrick didn’t have migraine issues until he reached the NHL, which wasn’t true.

Weren't you given a dozen articles with even more sources that crap on the McCagg article, written by a guy who produces some of the wrongest draft takes out there?

Seems you're just picking and choosing the narrative that most fits what you wish were true, rather than taking a measured view of the entire picture.

Plus, the only reason Patrick whiffing seems like a big deal is because the Flyers blew so very many other moves afterwards. The Flyers being bad now has almost nothing to do with Patrick whiffing. If they'd hit on him and followed it with all the moves they made, they'd still be really bad. So what is the point?

 

[deadhead]

That's pretty fair. Frost will struggle against top centers. And in the D-zone under pressure at times.
Torts is now using the Cates line against the best opposing line.

People just have to accept Frost is who he is, and not make excuses why he isn't who they hoped he'd be.
A solid 3C who shows flashes, but never the consistency to write him in as a reliable 2C.
This is his 3rd plus season starting, and while he's incrementally improved, he hasn't show enough to expect a big jump.
And he's had the best scoring forwards, TK, Michkov and Tippett.

 

[MJL66]

According to multiple sources in the McCagg article, there certainly were whispers inside the hockey community concerning Patrick’s character issues.

But not every character issue is going to be reported as national news, especially when it’s an 18 yr old kid involved.

Things can be true even if they don’t make the national news.

Is Darren Dreger or a reporter of that ilk really going to write a big story about rumors of an 18 yr old draft prospect being a bad teammate, or a big partier, for example?

I don’t think so. That doesn’t mean those whispers aren’t circulating inside hockey circles.

Guess what? After Patrick became a Flyer, Russ & Anthony on Snow the Goalie also hinted they were aware of character issues with Patrick while he was on the Flyers.

That supports the reporting in the McCagg article.

Saying there were “no whispers circulating inside the hockey community” about Patrick’s character simply because those whispers didn’t make national news seems like a convenient excuse to discredit something you don’t want to believe.

This is reminiscent of how you also swore Patrick didn’t have migraine issues until he reached the NHL, which wasn’t true.

You can take as gospel low level unreliable sources all you want. It won't make it a reality. Earlier you posted that teams protect their players and that the Patrick family was hockey royalty to reason why it wasn't reported by higher level more reputable sources. I guess McCagg was able to break through those firewalls and omerta. LOL. You're not even using simple common sense let alone rational thought. You've been prove wrong every step of the way from whether Patrick was a consensus top 2 pick, to whether he had a migraine disorder before the draft to now whether he had character issues. I'm really just continuing to have this conversation with you for the sheer humor of it. Even though I know it is a waste of my time. There's a lot of things that get reported that turn out to be untrue. Like when ASF reported that Kevin Hayes was involved in the Gauthier situation.

 

[Beef Invictus]

And why are we caring about migraine issues that manifested after the draft as a problem when it comes to assessing actually drafting him before it was known migraines would become that severe?

If you have a worry about the Flyers medical processes, I can't help but notice Ellis is still sucking down cap space every time I make a GDT and find the next triplet from The Inferno to attach to his status. That's more current in every single way since just about everyone involved with that failure is still involved with failing now. Good luck believing that Ellis's hip was so dessicated that he was imminently at the end of his career and there were no signs there to be detected. Considering the people responsible for making that choice are still making choices now, shouldn't that be a far greater concern?

 

[MJL66]

That's pretty fair. Frost will struggle against top centers. And in the D-zone under pressure at times.
Torts is now using the Cates line against the best opposing line.

People just have to accept Frost is who he is, and not make excuses why he isn't who they hoped he'd be.
A solid 3C who shows flashes, but never the consistency to write him in as a reliable 2C.
This is his 3rd plus season starting, and while he's incrementally improved, he hasn't show enough to expect a big jump.
And he's had the best scoring forwards, TK, Michkov and Tippett.

There are numerous factors why Frost hasn't made a significant jump. One of which is the environment that the head coach has created for him here. It is for that reason that I hope that Frost is traded. For his sake. If he has any chance of getting to that 2C level, it's not going to be here.

 

[MJL66]

And why are we caring about migraine issues that manifested after the draft as a problem when it comes to assessing actually drafting him before it was known migraines would become that severe?

If you have a worry about the Flyers medical processes, I can't help but notice Ellis is still sucking down cap space every time I make a GDT and find the next triplet from The Inferno to attach to his status. That's more current in every single way since just about everyone involved with that failure is still involved with failing now. Good luck believing that Ellis's hip was so dessicated that he was imminently at the end of his career and there were no signs there to be detected. Considering the people responsible for making that choice are still making choices now, shouldn't that be a far greater concern?

When the Flyers made that trade, many fans were stoked about it. I said and was criticized for it. Why is Nashville trading a player that when healthy, is a legit RH top pairing defenseman for a slow to develop with migraine issues center and a struggling part time 3rd pair defenseman? They couldn't get a better offer around the league? It was more than just cap reasons.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Fun fact, Frost is actually a bit better in xGA/60 than Cates. Cates also has the highest PDO on the current roster, if we really think that's going to last.

Either way it's an argument about centers outside of the top 6 on any good team which just goes to show how very severely deficient this team is. Big picture!

 

[Beef Invictus]

When the Flyers made that trade, many fans were stoked about it. I said and was criticized for it. Why is Nashville trading a player that when healthy, is a legit RH top pairing defenseman for a slow to develop with migraine issues center and a struggling part time 3rd pair defenseman? They couldn't get a better offer around the league? It was more than just cap reasons.

Hah! I was thrilled, but also said why are they doing this? The guy always misses time, is something wrong? And allowed my thrill to overrule all that in the end. Surely, the Flyers would not take on broken goods with that contract. Even the Flyers would surely be diligent!

So, as always, whenever I'm optimistic about what this team does I end up being wrong

 

[deadhead]

When the Flyers made that trade, many fans were stoked about it. I said and was criticized for it. Why is Nashville trading a player that when healthy, is a legit RH top pairing defenseman for a slow to develop with migraine issues center and a struggling part time 3rd pair defenseman? They couldn't get a better offer around the league? It was more than just cap reasons.

If Nashville had known of a pre-existing condition it would have leaked and the Flyers would have petitioned the league for redress. There's no evidence of that, before he was traded he had played 25 minutes a night in the playoffs.

It was just one of those freak things that happen.
Like Couts blowing out his back after he signed an extension.

 

[DancingPanther]

Who here has adenoids?

I'm sorry, what?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I'm sorry, what?

Look, i'm just trying to get this thread on track.

 

[MJL66]

If Nashville had known of a pre-existing condition it would have leaked and the Flyers would have petitioned the league for redress. There's no evidence of that, before he was traded he had played 25 minutes a night in the playoffs.

It was just one of those freak things that happen.
Like Couts blowing out his back after he signed an extension.

To my knowledge his injury is multi layered and chronic. Preventing him from playing. Doesn't seem like that's something that happens to a healthy player after playing 4 games. While he may have been able to pass the Flyers physical, Nashville undoubtedly knew he was breaking down physically so they wanted to get out of the contract. I would also speculate that the rest of the league knew also which is why no other team upped the ante on the Flyers low ball offer for a legit RH top pair defenseman. I believe it is another case of the Flyers flawed philosophies and strategies that resulted in another I'll advised move. They're so desperate that they were willing to take a chance on a broken down player.

Couturier's injury was acute not chronic

 

[Beef Invictus]

If Nashville had known of a pre-existing condition it would have leaked and the Flyers would have petitioned the league for redress. There's no evidence of that, before he was traded he had played 25 minutes a night in the playoffs.

It was just one of those freak things that happen.
Like Couts blowing out his back after he signed an extension.

This is obviously untrue, and it's also on the Flyers to check the medical situation out before signing off on the trade. Once it's done it's done. Remember when we tried to send Betts to Montreal? We didn't have to tell them how bad he actually was physically. It was incumbent on them to figure it out and the trade was nixed after they inspected him.

 

[Curufinwe]

What a fall from grace for the 3rd best player in the 2016 draft

Former New Jersey Devils player Michael McLeod, accused of sexual assault, is unemployed again

Former New Jersey Devils player, who hasn't played in the NHL since an arrest for sexual assault allegations, was let go by his KHL team.

pucksandpitchforks.com

 

[Cody Webster]

We're on what, day 3 of this nonsense?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

You can take as gospel low level unreliable sources all you want. It won't make it a reality. Earlier you posted that teams protect their players and that the Patrick family was hockey royalty to reason why it wasn't reported by higher level more reputable sources. I guess McCagg was able to break through those firewalls and omerta. LOL. You're not even using simple common sense let alone rational thought. You've been prove wrong every step of the way from whether Patrick was a consensus top 2 pick, to whether he had a migraine disorder before the draft to now whether he had character issues. I'm really just continuing to have this conversation with you for the sheer humor of it. Even though I know it is a waste of my time. There's a lot of things that get reported that turn out to be untrue. Like when ASF reported that Kevin Hayes was involved in the Gauthier situation.

1. You said there were no whispers in the hockey community about Patrick's character. According to multiple sources in the McCagg article, there were. You just don't want to believe those sources are accurate. Fine, but that doesn't mean there weren't whispers.

2. Again, Russ and Anthony on Snow the Goalie also reported on character questions pertaining to Patrick when he was on the Flyers, which lends credence to the whispers reported by sources in McCagg's article.

3. Please, quote where I ever said that Nolan Patrick was not a consensus #2 pick. My point was always that Patrick being a consensus #2 pick doesn't mean it was the right pick. Especially when your team's scouts rightfully recommend the non-consensus Makar and Heiskanen over him.

4. I posted multiple articles indicating that Patrick had migraine issues dating back to his youth, including in junior hockey. Why do you keep saying I'm wrong, when you're the one who swore he had no migraine issues until he was in the NHL?

And you call me the stubborn one? You've put every kind of blinder on, cited every kind of excuse you can, to defend Nolan Patrick and the Patrick pick. To the point of convincing yourself that any kind of reporting that doesn't support the Patrick pick cannot be true.

 

[Magua]

We're on what, day 3 of this nonsense?

It’s January 14th, and we have a game thread against the Ducks from December 28th on page 1.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Weren't you given a dozen articles with even more sources that crap on the McCagg article, written by a guy who produces some of the wrongest draft takes out there?

Seems you're just picking and choosing the narrative that most fits what you wish were true, rather than taking a measured view of the entire picture.

Plus, the only reason Patrick whiffing seems like a big deal is because the Flyers blew so very many other moves afterwards. The Flyers being bad now has almost nothing to do with Patrick whiffing. If they'd hit on him and followed it with all the moves they made, they'd still be really bad. So what is the point?

So you think McCagg fabricated quotes from fake hockey sources citing whispers about Patrick's character?

Well, I guess if there were anyone who would know about fabricating quotes....

 

[deadhead]

This is obviously untrue, and it's also on the Flyers to check the medical situation out before signing off on the trade. Once it's done it's done. Remember when we tried to send Betts to Montreal? We didn't have to tell them how bad he actually was physically. It was incumbent on them to figure it out and the trade was nixed after they inspected him.

He played 25 minutes a night in the playoffs before he was traded.
You don't do that if you have a serious underlying abdominal condition.
The reason he was available is he had a history of dings, was turning 31 and had 6 years left on his deal at $6M with a flat cap.
The reason Fletcher traded for him was to keep his job after a disappointing season, a healthy Ellis could keep the Flyers in contention for a couple years, after that he'd take his chances.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

We're on what, day 3 of this nonsense?

I have no idea really what’s being said. I just see Grant McCagg referenced every so often & get a chuckle.