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2024-25 Roster Thread #2: Midseasonnar

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deadhead said:
I think it's more a HC's frustration with his roster
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he’s coached Frost for 3 years, has talked about him extensively and has only said one complementary thing about him without adding some toilet seat type flavor to it. At some point you have to call as spade a spade - Torts does not value Frost at a center. He said the same thing about Michkov.
deadhead said:
Frost is frustrating, he does just enough that you start him and play him significant minutes, but his limitations are also obvious, despite being physical mature he's too easy to knock off the puck (at least 3 times against the Isles, for example). So you want to play him for offense, but also shelter him a bit.
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He’s got 7 points in his last 9, with great defensive metric. So what he gets knocked off tue puck, he makes up for it with creating turnovers in other ways like getting in passing lanes. Every non-elite player has limitations What more do you want from Frost?
 
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VladDrag said:
he’s coached Frost for 3 years, has talked about him extensively and has only said one complementary thing about him without adding some toilet seat type flavor to it. At some point you have to call as spade a spade - Torts does not value Frost at a center. He said the same thing about Michkov.

He’s got 7 points in his last 9, with great defensive metric. So what he gets knocked off tue puck, he makes up for it with creating turnovers in other ways like getting in passing lanes. Every non-elite player has limitations What more do you want from Frost?
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I want Frost to play at his best level for a full season. Too many slow starts. I'm a big supporter of Frost as a player but I want him to be more consistent. I think a lot of that was formed from the environment that was created for him by Tortorella. Who has done a horrendous job handling Frost but he's getting to the point where he needs to overcome that.
 
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VladDrag said:
he’s coached Frost for 3 years, has talked about him extensively and has only said one complementary thing about him without adding some toilet seat type flavor to it. At some point you have to call as spade a spade - Torts does not value Frost at a center. He said the same thing about Michkov.

He’s got 7 points in his last 9, with great defensive metric. So what he gets knocked off tue puck, he makes up for it with creating turnovers in other ways like getting in passing lanes. Every non-elite player has limitations What more do you want from Frost?
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a new team. he deserves it.
 
MJL66 said:
I want Frost to play at his best level for a full season. Too many slow starts. I'm a big supporter of Frost as a player but I want him to be more consistent. I think a lot of that was formed from the environment that was created for him by Tortorella. Who has done a horrendous job handling Frost but he's getting to the point where he needs to overcome that.
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It would be great if he could be a 60-point 1b-type center, and at one point in his career thought he could be that. Still think he can, but the chances of that as an outcome are much lower than they were in 22-23 for example.
 
Frost is a RFA after this season. He’s going to want some money and term if he stays here. I can’t see him sticking around here with Tortorella. He’ll probably go shopping for an offer sheet and get it. It’ll be interesting to see what he gets and if the Flyers match.
The same goes for the other RFAs-Cates, Foerster and York.
 
VladDrag said:
he’s coached Frost for 3 years, has talked about him extensively and has only said one complementary thing about him without adding some toilet seat type flavor to it. At some point you have to call as spade a spade - Torts does not value Frost at a center. He said the same thing about Michkov.

He’s got 7 points in his last 9, with great defensive metric. So what he gets knocked off tue puck, he makes up for it with creating turnovers in other ways like getting in passing lanes. Every non-elite player has limitations What more do you want from Frost?
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Consistency. As the best offensive center, he should be the highest scoring center and creating the most scoring chances on the ice. He has played with the most offensively talented forwards on this team.

He has been the last 29 games, since the Brink line was put together.

Minutes
Frost: Tippett (328), Michkov (276), TK (182), Laughton (85), Foerster (76), Farabee (50), Brink (49)
Cates: Foerster (352), Brink (304), Hathaway (102), Michkov (49), TK (49)
Couts: TK (393), Farabee (292), Michkov (199), Tippett (165), Hathaway (85), Foerster (63), Laughton (54)
Poehling: Hathaway (292), Laughton (221), Tippett (95), TK (93) Farabee (86), Foerster (55)

ES (EH) pp/60, xGF/60
Frost: 1.75, 2.51
Cates: 1.73, 3.03
Couts: 1.65, 3.03
Poehling 1.81, 2.22

Last 29 games
Frost: 2.38, 2.92
Cates: 2.11, 3.39
Couts: 1.82, 2.87
Poehling 1.64, 2.25
 
renberg said:
Frost is a RFA after this season. He’s going to want some money and term if he stays here. I can’t see him sticking around here with Tortorella. He’ll probably go shopping for an offer sheet and get it. It’ll be interesting to see what he gets and if the Flyers match.
The same goes for the other RFAs-Cates, Foerster and York.
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I would be incredibly shocked if Frost would receive an offer sheet.
 
deadhead said:
Consistency.
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This kind of goes to my response to MJL..Frost has put up similar metrics for three years now. He’s graded out as a very good defensive player, with average offensive numbers. He’s been the same player for three seasons in a row.

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You don’t want consistency. You want an elevation in play. So do I. The best way to do that, which we’ve seen over the last 9 games, is pairing him with TK… just let them play together for 20 games and see what happens.
 
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JojoTheWhale said:
If there’s one attribute we know is measured better by numbers than eye test, it’s consistency. Everything else at least has an argument. This whole conversation is just weird.



Not since the Gregorian Calendar flipped has humanity seen a date line drawn this sharply.
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Just call me Pope DH.

I will issue you an Indulgence to absolve you of all your degenerate sins, once you make a donation to the Church.
 
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Frost last 29 games:
Tippett 243, Michkov 212, TK 124
So his uptick in offense isn't really driven by TK.

I think the real issue is they just don't have the right mix of forwards.
Along with a top six center, I'd like to see them add another Foerster type, to balance out the lines.
Smart, good defensively, tough along the boards with a plus shot.
Couts at LW might fill that role, but he's not really a PF. Neither is Tippett.
 
deadhead said:
Frost last 29 games:
Tippett 243, Michkov 212, TK 124
So his uptick in offense isn't really driven by TK.

I think the real issue is they just don't have the right mix of forwards.
Along with a top six center, I'd like to see them add another Foerster type, to balance out the lines.
Smart, good defensively, tough along the boards with a plus shot.
Couts at LW might fill that role, but he's not really a PF. Neither is Tippett.
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What about Frost's teammates the last 9 games?
 
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That's funny, b/c Michkov has tried the Michigan multiple times, hasn't succeeded yet, but hasn't been called out by Torts once.
Torts has said he doesn't want to rein in Michkov's offensive game, he just wants him to be more fundamentally sound.
And it seems to have worked:
last 10 games, Michkov, HDCF/60: 17.17 (1), HDCA/60: 7.28 (7)
first 40 games, HDCF/60: 10.61, HDCA/60: 10.61

The kid is starting to figure out the NHL game.
 
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deadhead said:
That's funny, b/c Michkov has tried the Michigan multiple times, hasn't succeeded yet, but hasn't been called out by Torts once.
Torts has said he doesn't want to rein in Michkov's offensive game, he just wants him to be more fundamentally sound.
And it seems to have worked:
last 10 games, Michkov, HDCF/60: 17.17 (1), HDCA/60: 7.28 (7)
first 40 games, HDCF/60: 10.61, HDCA/60: 10.61

The kid is starting to figure out the NHL game.
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Michkov can be allowed to try the Michigan multiple times and still be stifled offensively in other ways. Plus, we don't even know he hasn't been called out by Torts for it, we just know Torts hasn't done it publically.
 
MJL66 said:
No, that's not how it works in most systems. It's not center or wing. It's F1, F2, F3. First forward on the back check is F1 and takes the center defensive responsibilities. Watch the Flyers play. You'll often see a center on wing position in the defensive zone and vice versa. Once in the zone, the speed factor is not the issue. Moving Couturier to wing over center is not going to change much in terms of his speed of play . If they were playing a center lock system like Berube likes to play, then maybe I could see it.
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The trend towards positionless, situational hockey.
 
deadhead said:
That's funny, b/c Michkov has tried the Michigan multiple times, hasn't succeeded yet, but hasn't been called out by Torts once.
Torts has said he doesn't want to rein in Michkov's offensive game, he just wants him to be more fundamentally sound.
And it seems to have worked:
last 10 games, Michkov, HDCF/60: 17.17 (1), HDCA/60: 7.28 (7)
first 40 games, HDCF/60: 10.61, HDCA/60: 10.61

The kid is starting to figure out the NHL game.
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He was called out
 
Torts said to MM to look for other plays and not do it every time. Then he said a few weeks ago if he told the guys how to play offense he would be laughed out of the room. :rolleyes:
 
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