2024-25 Roster Thread #2: Midseasonnar

[Hanover Fist]

Is it possible Frost is put on waivers today?

Torts post game comment seemed to allude to he was going to overlook the mistake. Something like that probably won’t happen again the rest of his career and he didn’t bench him but with this management group you can’t pass up the possibility that hes at least a scratch again.

 

[Rebels57]

Torts post game comment seemed to allude to he was going to overlook the mistake. Something like that probably won’t happen again the rest of his career and he didn’t bench him but with this management group you can’t pass up the possibility that hes at least a scratch again.

Torts doesn't mind mistakes like the one Frost made as much as lack of effort or not paying attention to defensive assignments. I will give him some credit for that.

 

[deadhead]

Torts doesn't mind mistakes like the one Frost made as much as lack of effort or not paying attention to defensive assignments. I will give him some credit for that.

He's said he wants players to take risks, it's part of learning and development.
What will get you benched:

1) repeat mistakes, to err is human, to repeat errors is stupidity
2) half ass it, don't fight for the puck in the corners, don't back check aggressively
3) carelessness, I think stick penalties where players don't control their stick and widely flail drive him crazy (from his expressions on the bench). Using your stick instead of moving your skates . . .

He doesn't mind penalties from being overly aggressive, or standing up for teammates, but he wants players to show situational awareness (revenge is a dish best served cold, or at least not when the game is on the line). He wasn't upset with TK negating that goal (though he made no excuses) b/c TK was doing what they wanted, going to the net, just wants him to be more aware of the blue paint next time.

Torts has been very patient and measured in his pressers, he knows the team is rebuilding, he knows they can't match up talent wise and struggle with physical teams. He knows he has some shaky goalies. As long as they work hard and don't give up he's satisfied (not happy, only winning the right way makes him happy).

 

[Curufinwe]

Why?

Not in their long term plans, they love a scapegoat, trade interest can't be high or he would have been moved already, etc.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

He played his 1,000th game so organization cast him aside.

Ala Yandle.

Speaking of this, I just realized he wasn't at the meet the team event last week.

hmm...

 

[dragonoffrost]

If they both grabbed it together, sure. But if I’m remembering right the union had it going for a few years. They just glommed onto its popularity.

It was the Union song for a bit before the Flyers co-opted it. The Flyers had the Sons of Ben at a game early the season they started using it to try to really get the fans to respond to it.

BTW Bro Hymm was Anaheim's song before it was ours.

 

[flyersnorth]

Not in their long term plans, they love a scapegoat, trade interest can't be high or he would have been moved already, etc.

I agree he doesn't seem to be in their long-term plans. I can't see the team waiving him though.

 

[deadhead]

Laughton and Hathaway on 4th line, Seeler on 3rd pair, DeLo and Johnson glued to the bench.
See a pattern?
Have vets in place to start the season, gradually phase them out as young players show they deserve more PT.

 

[Lord Defect]

It was the Union song for a bit before the Flyers co-opted it. The Flyers had the Sons of Ben at a game early the season they started using it to try to really get the fans to respond to it.

BTW Bro Hymm was Anaheim's song before it was ours.

I thought Anaheim stole it from us. Revisionist history I guess.

I thought Anaheim stole it from us. Revisionist history I guess.

Oh wow. We only used it for 3 seasons. I thought we used it to a lot longer than that.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Torts post game comment seemed to allude to he was going to overlook the mistake. Something like that probably won’t happen again the rest of his career and he didn’t bench him but with this management group you can’t pass up the possibility that hes at least a scratch again.

Besides that, he didn't even end his shift and made sure to get him out there immediately with the Ersson pulled.

This isn't the first time over the years this has happened. I swear he's waved off fluke mistakes here, and that I have some memory of him and Brooks getting into it over him not holding a fluke mistake accountable.

His problem with Frost isn't so much sloppiness or such, it's kind of just Frost's entire player archetype. Tortorella really, really distrusts playmaking. He has clashed with pretty much every playmaking-type on the roster and very little with anyone else.

Hence my opinion that him being waived for last game would be weird. Of all things to finally end things, that would be requiring a reversal on Briere's part and on Tortorella's part in this instance. I mean, you can't rule out the weird completely, but weird it would have been.

Laughton and Hathaway on 4th line, Seeler on 3rd pair, DeLo and Johnson glued to the bench.
See a pattern?
Have vets in place to start the season, gradually phase them out as young players show they deserve more PT.

This has never happened before, and the only reason it began was injuries.

I thought Anaheim stole it from us. Revisionist history I guess.


Oh wow. We only used it for 3 seasons. I thought we used it to a lot longer than that.

It stands out because those were the last truly fun seasons.

 

[dragonoffrost]

This has never happened before, and the only reason it began was injuries.

But the injuries allowed his narrative to occur so it is true....

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Laughton and Hathaway on 4th line, Seeler on 3rd pair, DeLo and Johnson glued to the bench.
See a pattern?
Have vets in place to start the season, gradually phase them out as young players show they deserve more PT.

This wasn't the plan. It's never the plan. They fell ass backwards into it.

Laughton should have been traded years ago, Seeler should have been traded last year, Hathaway should have been traded this year and Deslauriers and Johnson should have never been here.

P.S. Is it good to pay fourth liners and third paring d-men that kind of coin?

 

[Beef Invictus]

This wasn't the plan. It's never the plan. They fell ass backwards into it.

Laughton should have been traded years ago, Seeler should have been traded last year, Hathaway should have been traded this year and Deslauriers and Johnson should have never been here.

P.S. Is it good to pay fourth liners and third paring d-men that kind of coin?

Paying them the amount they have for the length they have and then burying them is a lesson in efficiency, in a way

 

[bennysflyers16]

Flyers haven't been good since Doop, bring it back !!

 

[Cody Webster]

Flyers haven't been good since Doop, bring it back !!

Now we're talking!

 

[deadhead]

This wasn't the plan. It's never the plan. They fell ass backwards into it.

Laughton should have been traded years ago, Seeler should have been traded last year, Hathaway should have been traded this year and Deslauriers and Johnson should have never been here.

P.S. Is it good to pay fourth liners and third paring d-men that kind of coin?

Yes. Because it's not really that much (you can bury $1.25M of any contract), and this allowed them to be measured when moving young players up in the lineup.

And they fill roles, Seeler and Hathaway are mainstays on the PK.

A key part of rebuilding is patience, you don't want to force feed young players and set them back.
When a player is ready, they'll let you know on the ice.

 

[deadhead]

His problem with Frost isn't so much sloppiness or such, it's kind of just Frost's entire player archetype. Tortorella really, really distrusts playmaking. He has clashed with pretty much every playmaking-type on the roster and very little with anyone else.

Torts problem with Frost is inconsistency and playing "soft."
Just compare Brink (who is smaller) and Frost.
Brink is a better playmaker than Frost, despite being a wing, not a center.

Brink probably reminds Briere of himself, a feisty little runt. It took Brink both a summer getting stronger and faster and being pushed to play a more aggressive game - he doesn't win the majority of battles but he no longer shies away from them either. And it's starting to pay off.

Frost is 25, with more than 3 full years of experience (253 games), goes to the net more now, but is still inconsistent, still goes MIA for stretches. At some point it's the player. He's just not a top 6 center.

 

[trostol]

not rebuilding

 

[Beef Invictus]

Torts problem with Frost is inconsistency and playing "soft."
Just compare Brink (who is smaller) and Frost.
Brink is a better playmaker than Frost, despite being a wing, not a center.

Brink probably reminds Briere of himself, a feisty little runt. It took Brink both a summer getting stronger and faster and being pushed to play a more aggressive game - he doesn't win the majority of battles but he no longer shies away from them either. And it's starting to pay off.

Frost is 25, with more than 3 full years of experience (253 games), goes to the net more now, but is still inconsistent, still goes MIA for stretches. At some point it's the player. He's just not a top 6 center.

This doesn't work out though. Frost doesn't play soft. Brink also isn't a better playmaker than Frost.

Frost going to the net should be irrelevant. That isn't his playstyle strength and having him do that harms his strengths.

Again, those goes to what I've been saying. The problem isn't Frost himself. It's that he's a playmaker.

Holding anyone accountable for inconsistency and then refusing to do it for the rest of the roster is goofy. That doesn't check out. Every play is inconsistent unless they're true stars. Even then, they'll be inconsistent. It's a made-up complaint to justify bad decisions and evaluations. Completely empty of serious substance, like Tortorella's criticisms of Hartnell.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I mean...I don't think anyone on this roster is soft. We know what soft is. We watched Yandle. Drysdale is fragile, but he isn't soft. Guy happily takes contact to make plays. Tippet's tendency to throw pucks on net from awful angles to lose possession instead of taking hits to try and make other plays could maybe count, except that's his whole play style so it's coincidence.

 

[freakydallas13]

Holding Drysdale out extra games is OK with me, I have to say

If they held him out for 82 games a year the team would improve.

Laughton and Hathaway on 4th line, Seeler on 3rd pair, DeLo and Johnson glued to the bench.
See a pattern?
Have vets in place to start the season, gradually phase them out as young players show they deserve more PT.

For the Flyers, "on the 4th line" is hardly "phased out". The bottom lines get played more than some scoring lines.

 

[freakydallas13]

Yes. Because it's not really that much (you can bury $1.25M of any contract), and this allowed them to be measured when moving young players up in the lineup.

And they fill roles, Seeler and Hathaway are mainstays on the PK.

A key part of rebuilding is patience, you don't want to force feed young players and set them back.
When a player is ready, they'll let you know on the ice.

"It's actually good to overplay players you don't want on the ice"

K.

 

[dragonoffrost]

If they held him out for 82 games a year the team would improve.


For the Flyers, "on the 4th line" is hardly "phased out". The bottom lines get played more than some scoring lines.

It's all about the mystical roles and archetypical players to fill them. And until that mindset changes this team is stuck in neutral.

 

[CapnZin]

View attachment 941790

This is Laughton’ defensive heat shot map. He’s been terrible. Red is bad. Blue is good.

+11% is verging on horrid. I am not 100% versed on the statistical input and calculation, however; since the tested value is cumulative, Laughton needs to have a Selke-level 250 TOI of high-danger and medium-danger shot suppression to become Net 0. It’s a bit baffling if you really value culture that heavily over the output. Torts a D centric coach. This should make him irate.

 

[VladDrag]

+11% is verging on horrid. I am not 100% versed on the statistical input and calculation, however; since the tested value is cumulative, Laughton needs to have a Selke-level 250 TOI of high-danger and medium-danger shot suppression to become Net 0. It’s a bit baffling if you really value culture that heavily over the output. Torts a D centric coach. This should make him irate.

Model: Magnus 8 (EV)

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