2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging

[renberg]

Bottom ten is probably too high. Bottom five is more likely. Unless Ersson comes back, this club is set up for a melt down ten game losing streak. The Russian goalies aren't ready to play in the higher octane NHL compared to what they have seen in the KHL. Ex.-Fedotov held up for two periods and crashed out in the third.
The starting point to turn around the organization is get Tortorella out of the room. His "playing the right way" isn't working as these stats cite by Appleyard illustrates. He simply has to go.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Bottom ten is probably too high. Bottom five is more likely. Unless Ersson comes back, this club is set up for a melt down ten game losing streak. The Russian goalies aren't ready to play in the higher octane NHL compared to what they have seen in the KHL. Ex.-Fedotov held up for two periods and crashed out in the third.
The starting point to turn around the organization is get Tortorella out of the room. His "playing the right way" isn't working as these stats cite by Appleyard illustrates. He simply has to go.

Since it's las year of the rebuild and team let it be known they are targeting centers it's fine if they draft one at 5th spot instead of 10.

 

[VladDrag]

**X-axis on both graphs are games played

Pulled these two charts together from data from NST. Top is a 5-game rolling average of CF/60 and CA/60 and bottom is 5-game rolling average for xGF/60 and xGA/60 (both 5v5). They really haven't been consistently competitive at 5v5 since mid-October.

For those that don't understand what this is saying, here are better visuals below.

There are times where they are playing like legit bottom-5 team. I still think they equalize a bit, and get a touch better. They have the roster to do so.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

View attachment 934080
View attachment 934081

**X-axis on both graphs are games played

Pulled these two charts together from data from NST. Top is a 5-game rolling average of CF/60 and CA/60 and bottom is 5-game rolling average for xGF/60 and xGA/60 (both 5v5). They really haven't been consistently competitive at 5v5 since mid-October.

For those that don't understand what this is saying, here are better visuals below.

View attachment 934082
View attachment 934083

There are times where they are playing like legit bottom-5 team. I still think they equalize a bit, and get a touch better. They have the roster to do so.

NERDS!!!!

hockey is won by grinding along the boards.

good ol honest hockey!!!


signed Emp. Torts

 

[Larry44]

The starting point to turn around the organization is get Tortorella out of the room. His "playing the right way" isn't working as these stats cite by Appleyard illustrates. He simply has to go.

Do you think Daniel "Petit Napoléon" Briere is really going to get rid of Giovanni "Il Douché" Tortellini?

 

[Beef Invictus]

People keep talking about Torts and personnel, but has anyone actually thought about Briere and how he thinks? He was undersized in the "clutch, hook and slash" era. Yet he's one of the top playoff performers in NHL history. He was up and down between Arizona and the AHL from 20-23 before he finally won a starting job at 24.

So what would Briere value from his own experience?
1) obviously not size, though he probably appreciated teammates who'd stand up for him
2) IQ, work ethic, mental toughness
3) Perseverance, young players who work hard to improve, and don't get derailed by adversity
4) Speed and skill, his meal ticket
5) the ability to raise your game when it counts, against better competition and in big games

“I get excited about the fact there is no tomorrow and you have to be at your best; focused all the time. For some reason, some guys perform better when the pressure is on. I don’t know why that is, but I can tell you I feel more comfortable at this time of year.”

Danny may appreciate "grinders" who did the dirty work and got him a puck, but I doubt he wants to build a team of grinders that had no place for a player like himself. But I also doubt he's overly impressed with offensive skill without the willingness to do the things to help the team win.

He's not going to have a problem with sending prospects to the AHL to marinate given his own experience. He's going to be patient with prospects b/c he knows sometimes a player will take time to develop.

I'll bet his favorite current Flyer is TK.


Here's an outsider's view of Luchanko:

Scout's Analysis: On Jett Luchanko, the Flyers' surprising rookie

While Matvei Michkov is the Philadelphia Flyers rookie getting all the attention, Jett Luchanko also cracked the lineup out of camp after being selected 13th overall this past summer. Jason Bukala gives a scouting report on the player and what makes him so special.

www.sportsnet.ca

Your point completely falls apart at Number 1, because Briere has already made decisions based on prioritizing size as the major guiding consideration. He spent the last couple years insisting Deslauriers is necessary for size reasons. He just blew a draft pick thanks to size based reasoning.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Your point completely falls apart at Number 1, because Briere has already made decisions based on prioritizing size as the major guiding consideration. He spent the last couple years insisting Deslauriers is necessary for size reasons. He just blew a draft pick thanks to size based reasoning.

Funny thing is that according to elite prospects Buium is taller than Luchanko.

 

[deadhead]

Your point completely falls apart at Number 1, because Briere has already made decisions based on prioritizing size as the major guiding consideration. He spent the last couple years insisting Deslauriers is necessary for size reasons. He just blew a draft pick thanks to size based reasoning.

Huh, what? DeLo has played 7 games, he's not a priority for other than entertaining reporters in the press box.

I think they considered Jett on the same tier with Buium, and Jett was a perfect fit for what they want at center. We'll see if they were right or wrong, but I doubt it was about "size" per se. Size only came into play in terms of not seeing Buium as a Hedman type franchise D-man, and he lacks the speed of a Makar to drive play. Given the D-men taken before Buium, much of the league agrees.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Huh, what? DeLo has played 7 games, he's not a priority for other than entertaining reporters in the press box.

I think they considered Jett on the same tier with Buium, and Jett was a perfect fit for what they want at center. We'll see if they were right or wrong, but I doubt it was about "size" per se. Size only came into play in terms of not seeing Buium as a Hedman type franchise D-man, and he lacks the speed of a Makar to drive play. Given the D-men taken before Buium, much of the league agrees.

Why do you choose to ignore their words when they match their actions?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Huh, what? DeLo has played 7 games, he's not a priority for other than entertaining reporters in the press box.

I think they considered Jett on the same tier with Buium, and Jett was a perfect fit for what they want at center. We'll see if they were right or wrong, but I doubt it was about "size" per se. Size only came into play in terms of not seeing Buium as a Hedman type franchise D-man, and he lacks the speed of a Makar to drive play. Given the D-men taken before Buium, much of the league agrees.

7 games is a lot for a player that bad, with better prospects in the wings at all times. He will play more, too.

If that's their draft assessment, they're bad. They drafted for fit, they admitted that, and we know that's bad. They said they were worried about Buium's size. That's bad.

Your appeal to authority is based on a series judgement calls made by the worst teams in the league.

 

[deadhead]

NERDS!!!!

hockey is won by grinding along the boards.

good ol honest hockey!!!


signed Emp. Torts

Well, if you look at the chart, the two areas where the Flyers really struggle is in front of the net at both ends of the ice.

Why do you choose to ignore their words when they match their actions?

Because 6'0 180+ and eventually probably 200+ isn't "small."
And Jett isn't "big."
So exactly what do their actions suggest?

Yes, they took Berglund and Gill in the second round, but the year before, Barkey and Ciernak.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Well, if you look at the chart, the two areas where the Flyers really struggle is in front of the net at both ends of the ice.


Because 6'0 180+ and eventually probably 200+ isn't "small."
And Jett isn't "big."
So exactly what do their actions suggest?

Yes, they took Berglund and Gill in the second round, but the year before, Barkey and Ciernak.

To the Flyers that IS small. Just because you don’t think that it’s small doesn’t mean that they agree.

Their actions suggest that they can’t have too many players that fit the pigeon holed roles that they require when roster building.

 

[deadhead]

To the Flyers that IS small. Just because you don’t think that it’s small doesn’t mean that they agree.

Their actions suggest that they can’t have too many players that fit the pigeon holed roles that they require when roster building.

Or that they simply thought Jett was an equivalent talent and a better fit.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Or that they simply thought Jett was an equivalent talent and a better fit.

This is a very negative assessment of the Flyers' abilities and methods

 

[deadhead]

This is a very negative assessment of the Flyers' abilities and methods

Check back in three years. Look at any 'redraft,' half the players move down substantially.

 

[kudymen]

Drafting for immediate fit will look as stupid in three years.

 

[freakydallas13]

People keep talking about Torts and personnel, but has anyone actually thought about Briere and how he thinks?

1) Just because a former player becomes a coach or a GM doesn't mean their qualities as a player carry over to their new role. See: Gretzky, Wayne.

2) The same braintrust and advisers that clamored for Fletcher to be hired are also the ones who groomed and advocated for Briere to be hired as GM.

3) Briere was hired specifically because he wouldn't challenge the authority of the head coach. It was something that was explicitly stated as a requirement to taking the position.

 

[deadhead]

1) Just because a former player becomes a coach or a GM doesn't mean their qualities as a player carry over to their new role. See: Gretzky, Wayne.

2) The same braintrust and advisers that clamored for Fletcher to be hired are also the ones who groomed and advocated for Briere to be hired as GM.

3) Briere was hired specifically because he wouldn't challenge the authority of the head coach. It was something that was explicitly stated as a requirement to taking the position.

2) Briere was groomed by Comcast, not by Holmgren or Clarke. Holmgren had no involvement with Maine after it was initially set up, it was a farm club of the Rangers and Bruins, not the Flyers.

3) There is no evidence that Briere isn't on the same page with Torts in terms of the need to rebuild and style of play. Torts doesn't interest himself in the draft or personnel moves other than generalities.

Everyone harps on size and grinders.

Please explain why the Flyers have been one of the smallest teams in the NHL for the last few seasons?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The man answered the Buium question directly and then tried to walk it back the next day. We don't have to do this. Please stop. Danny Briere is an adult. He doesn't need you to translate what he really meant.

 

[freakydallas13]

The man answered the Buium question directly and then tried to walk it back the next day. We don't have to do this. Please stop. Danny Briere is an adult. He doesn't need you to translate what he really meant.

We absolutely do not need to play "Briere whisperer" every time the GM says something. It's insane.

 

[freakydallas13]

2) Briere was groomed by Comcast, not by Holmgren or Clarke. Holmgren had no involvement with Maine after it was initially set up, it was a farm club of the Rangers and Bruins, not the Flyers.

"Briere was groomed by Comcast not anyone else" you have zero proof of this, it's just what you hope is true.

3) There is no evidence that Briere isn't on the same page with Torts in terms of the need to rebuild and style of play. Torts doesn't interest himself in the draft or personnel moves other than generalities.

...okay? Again, how do you know Torts doesn't insert himself in draft and personnel moves? Are you in the room with them? Or are you just putting forward your ideal scenario because otherwise you have to admit maybe something the Flyers are doing is actually kind of stupid?

Everyone harps on size and grinders.

Please explain why the Flyers have been one of the smallest teams in the NHL for the last few seasons?

They were small before Briere? I don't know what you're getting at here, you think GMDB has ushered in some utopia of small players? That's rediculous.

 

[deadhead]

The man answered the Buium question directly and then tried to walk it back the next day. We don't have to do this. Please stop. Danny Briere is an adult. He doesn't need you to translate what he really meant.

If they have a size fetish, why did they draft 5'11 Jett and trade for Drysdale?

His "size" comment makes sense in the context that Buium is too small for the traditional franchise D-man (Pronger, Hedman, Pietrangelo, et al) role (and too slow to be a Makar type D-man). That is, they didn't value him as highly as amateurs b/c they didn't think his skill set (size/speed) translates into a #1 D-man role. And other teams agreed, since 5 other D-men went before him.

I'd point out that Sanheim didn't fit that role until he added 40 lbs without slowing down.
Now he's a horse who can log big minutes and hold his own in the D-zone without being pushed around.
But it's unusual for a player to fill out to that extent and not lose mobility.

 

[freakydallas13]

If they have a size fetish, why did they draft 5'11 Jett and trade for Drysdale?

His "size" comment makes sense in the context that Buium is too small for the traditional franchise D-man (Pronger, Hedman, Pietrangelo, et al) role (and too slow to be a Makar type D-man). That is, they didn't value him as highly as amateurs b/c they didn't think his skill set (size/speed) translates into a #1 D-man role. And other teams agreed, since 5 other D-men went before him.

I'd point out that Sanheim didn't fit that role until he added 40 lbs without slowing down.
Now he's a horse who can log big minutes and hold his own in the D-zone without being pushed around.
But it's unusual for a player to fill out to that extent and not lose mobility.

You can't just list a few small players and use it as proof of your entire world view. The opposite also works and also also stupid.

"Oh you think they love small skill players?! They resigned Owen Tippet for 8 years, and sprinted to resign Hathaway on day 1, explain that?"

^See? Also stupid. Stop doing it.

I'm especially confused you used Drysdale as an example of them targeting a small player, seeing as you keep arguing until you are blue in the face that this team had to accept the Drysdale deal because there were no better options out there.

 

[deadhead]

You can't just list a few small players and use it as proof of your entire world view. The opposite also works and also also stupid.

"Oh you think they love small skill players?! They resigned Owen Tippet for 8 years, and sprinted to resign Hathaway on day 1, explain that?"

^See? Also stupid. Stop doing it.

I'm especially confused you used Drysdale as an example of them targeting a small player, seeing as you keep arguing until you are blue in the face that this team had to accept the Drysdale deal because there were no better options out there.

Tippett is one of the fastest players in the NHL, and Hathaway is in the upper third in terms of speed.

So maybe the fetish is speed, not size?

 

[freakydallas13]

Hathaway is in the upper third in terms of speed.

You never clarified about Drysdale btw. Did the team target him specifically or did they get stuck being forced to trade for him?