2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging

[deadhead]

Risto is never getting moved. Seeler's value was at a peak and teams were interested in paying a fortune for the Walker-Seeler pair. Refusal to trade Laughton. Refusal to trade Hathaway, extended him instead.

Didn't want to trade Walker and only reluctantly did so when they couldn't afford him.

Sanheim wasn't being traded because it was a rebuild, he was being traded to appease the coach's ego.

The amount of revisionist history required to believe this team is doing a thing they blatantly aren't doing could fill an entire encyclopedia set. That's the amount of convoluted fantasy and nonsense that has to be dreamed up to twist and hide plain straightforward facts.

What fortune? They could have gotten a 1st for Walker - Seeler, instead they got a 1st for Walker and a salary dump (worth a 3rd, about equivalent to Seeler).

What do you think they would have gotten for Hathaway? A late 3rd? 4th?

Sanheim was being traded b/c Briere didn't know if he wanted that salary (8yrs) going into a rebuild, and wanted to stockpile 1st rd picks.

Briere didn't "blow it up" because blowing it up meant trading a 26 year old forward (TK) a 24 year old center (Frost) and a 23 year old forward (Farabee). Do that and you're looking at a 7 year rebuild since you've just moved your best young players for a bunch of late rd 1sts.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

By not doing it they're looking at a seven plus year "rebuild."

 

[deadhead]

What happened before Briere is spilt milk. Can't change history.
Briere is on year 2, year 5 is 2027-28.

 

[SnS]

What happened before Briere is spilt milk. Can't change history.
Briere is on year 2, year 5 is 2027-28.

That’s really not how it works.

 

[Beef Invictus]

What fortune? They could have gotten a 1st for Walker - Seeler, instead they got a 1st for Walker and a salary dump (worth a 3rd, about equivalent to Seeler).

What do you think they would have gotten for Hathaway? A late 3rd? 4th?

Sanheim was being traded b/c Briere didn't know if he wanted that salary (8yrs) going into a rebuild, and wanted to stockpile 1st rd picks.

Briere didn't "blow it up" because blowing it up meant trading a 26 year old forward (TK) a 24 year old center (Frost) and a 23 year old forward (Farabee). Do that and you're looking at a 7 year rebuild since you've just moved your best young players for a bunch of late rd 1sts.

You're being nutty if you think a complete D pair that was quite effective wouldn't bring in more than a 1st, or that Seeler at the time during that season could only be sold for a 3rd.

Sanheim was clashing with the coach. It's that simple. Briere doesn't give a shit about contracts, he showed that with Seeler, Hathaway, and Tippett.

Briere didn't blow it up because they weren't rebuilding, and still are not.


Notice how the actual facts are straightforward and simple and don't require dreaming up a bunch of inferred intent that doesn't match with team actions?

 

[WIP CALLER]

Just wait until 2027-28 comes around, the flyers are still stuck in the mud and Briere has been fired the season prior. DH will still be saying "what happened during DB is spilt milk, can't change history. GM Scott Hartnell is on year 2 of a 5 year rebuild, 2032-33 will be the year they are ready to compete."

 

[BernieParent]

Frost is not a player you build around, he's not a top 6 center, and he's not a guy who'll raise the play of lesser wings as a 3C. He doesn't PK and he's generally on PP2. He'd have to sign a team friendly contract to be worth keeping. He's gotten plenty of opportunities to shine and has fallen short.

Cates is a role player, and they don't think he's anything more, or Torts wouldn't talk about the need to get multiple centers. But he's a better fit in the bottom six than Frost. Torts is going to push him on offense to round out his game, not turn him into a 2C.

The problem against the Avs was talent, period. Look at the defense they put out there.
They need 2 centers (hopefully Jett is one of them), another top 4 D-man, and a couple goalies to emerge from the scrum.

This statement was pretty blatant confirmation that Tortorella has his fingerprints all over the Flyers' drafting strategy. They don't rank BPAs so much as create a grocery list of roles they need filled. It makes much more sense that the Flyers turned their noses up at Buium because "we need centers".

 

[CerpinTaxt]

This statement was pretty blatant confirmation that Tortorella has his fingerprints all over the Flyers' drafting strategy. They don't rank BPAs so much as create a grocery list of roles they need filled. It makes much more sense that the Flyers turned their noses up at Buium because "we need centers".

With the justification that he a small boi

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

What happened before Briere is spilt milk. Can't change history.
Briere is on year 2, year 5 is 2027-28.

I would agree with that if the Flyers cleaned house completely prior to Briere.

They didn't so what's happened before Briere still very much so matters.

It doesn't get to just be handwaived away.

 

[freakydallas13]

I did a quick look, so perhaps I missed it, but I don't see it mentioned anywhere that 1st was coming back with Krug.

I'm about 85% sure he completely fabricated the part about the first, I don't remember ever hearing that was part of the deal.

I would agree with that if the Flyers cleaned house completely prior to Briere.

They didn't so what's happened before Briere still very much so matters.

It doesn't get to just be handwaived away.

We should all just respond to every point we don't like by saying it was spilt milk. The arguing becomes so much easier that way.

 

[Lord Defect]

Risto is never getting moved. Seeler's value was at a peak and teams were interested in paying a fortune for the Walker-Seeler pair. Refusal to trade Laughton. Refusal to trade Hathaway, extended him instead.

Didn't want to trade Walker and only reluctantly did so when they couldn't afford him.

Sanheim wasn't being traded because it was a rebuild, he was being traded to appease the coach's ego.

The amount of revisionist history required to believe this team is doing a thing they blatantly aren't doing could fill an entire encyclopedia set. That's the amount of convoluted fantasy and nonsense that has to be dreamed up to twist and hide plain straightforward facts.

We can’t forget about the little gem called JVR. Not resigning him(for good reason), not trading him, just letting his contract expire. Abysmal asset management.

 

[deadhead]

This statement was pretty blatant confirmation that Tortorella has his fingerprints all over the Flyers' drafting strategy. They don't rank BPAs so much as create a grocery list of roles they need filled. It makes much more sense that the Flyers turned their noses up at Buium because "we need centers".

He was just stating the obvious.
Center and Defense were the two priorities last draft and will be this draft.
They'll win all BPA ties.
But since both were areas of need, it's more likely they simply like Jett.

I would agree with that if the Flyers cleaned house completely prior to Briere.

They didn't so what's happened before Briere still very much so matters.

It doesn't get to just be handwaived away.

It is what it is.
Briere inherited the players and contracts left over from the previous regime.
All he can do is work with what he has, not what he wished he had.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's important to note, I think, that @deadhead is easily the most negative user here. Contrast that to I, the most positive.

I say they are not rebuilding. That they do not intend to. Therefore, their actions match their intent. It means they know what they're doing and are working towards that end. I don't agree with that end, but they are indeed doing it. Good for them.

Deady, on the other hand, insists they are rebuilding. However, if that's true, they are failing in shocking fashion. They barely do anything that would be recognized as rebuildy. They are cash strapped and clinging to dead weight that won't be of any use at the end of a rebuild rather than moving it. The prospect pool is bleak and no real effort is being made to develop the next generation, they're just being beaten down.

His vision of the team's intentions compared to their actions is shockingly pessimistic and negative. I, however, remain the optimistic beacon of positivity you have all come to adore and respect and dream of fondling.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

He was just stating the obvious.
Center and Defense were the two priorities last draft and will be this draft.
They'll win all BPA ties.
But since both were areas of need, it's more likely they simply like Jett.


It is what it is.
Briere inherited the players and contracts left over from the previous regime.
All he can do is work with what he has, not what he wished he had.

Briere could have started the rebuild by offloading the players with value instead of doing the same exact thing that his predecessors did which was extend every single player they possibly could. He could work with what he has but he's decided not to. He's decided to follow the path of least resistance which is fine and all in a general sense because the guy is just trying to keep a job.

He is following what Fletcher did where people said that it was all Hextall's fault and yet Fletcher was responsible for every single player on the roster sans JVR.

 

[Beef Invictus]

We can’t forget about the little gem called JVR. Not resigning him(for good reason), not trading him, just letting his contract expire. Abysmal asset management.

Never forget everyone on the current management crew was here for that.

 

[deadhead]

I'm about 85% sure he completely fabricated the part about the first, I don't remember ever hearing that was part of the deal.


We should all just respond to every point we don't like by saying it was spilt milk. The arguing becomes so much easier that way.

The reason the trade hadn’t been finalized, according to league sources, was that the Blues were planning to send defenseman Torey Krug to the Flyers in return, along with a first-round pick in this year’s draft.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4638235/2023/06/28/kevin-hayes-torey-krug-blues-trade/

 

[Beef Invictus]

The reason the trade hadn’t been finalized, according to league sources, was that the Blues were planning to send defenseman Torey Krug to the Flyers in return, along with a first-round pick in this year’s draft.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4638235/2023/06/28/kevin-hayes-torey-krug-blues-trade/

It is very negative to throw this out there, because that's terrible value for Sanheim and always has been. Geez. Give us some optimism about the office's competence, will you?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

A 1st was absolutely coming back from STL as part of the Krug/Sanheim deal.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

We can’t forget about the little gem called JVR. Not resigning him(for good reason), not trading him, just letting his contract expire. Abysmal asset management.

working the phones is very hard you know...

 

[Beef Invictus]

A 1st was absolutely coming back from STL as part of the Krug/Sanheim deal.

Again, very wild to throw this out there as if it justifies that horror-show move. If this is somehow meant to make that move look competent, it says very bleak things about the nature of the trade to begin with.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Can't help but laugh at the discourse here. We've spent a year and a half discussing the whole Laughton aspect of this thing with the Blues and that's been heavily denied by some here as a possibility at every turn but Sanheim for a first and a massive cap dump*? 100% true.

*Awful value too.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Again, very wild to throw this out there as if it justifies that horror-show move. If this is somehow meant to make that move look competent, it says very bleak things about the nature of the trade to begin with.

the best part is is that every player that can control their next stop is saying "f*** NOOOO! !" to the Flyers..

#culture babee...

 

[Beef Invictus]

the best part is is that every player that can control their next stop is saying "f*** NOOOO! !" to the Flyers..

#culture babee...

We've hit the Stage of Dismality where the toxicity of the team saves them from themselves. Nature is beautiful in the way it achieves balance.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Again, very wild to throw this out there as if it justifies that horror-show move. If this is somehow meant to make that move look competent, it says very bleak things about the nature of the trade to begin with.

It's about representing the alleged trade accurately.

Instead of leaving out the 1st rd pick to make it look worse.

Also, weren't you one of the many posters who complained endlessly about the Sanheim contract and how he would be "unmovable"?

And now complaining about how bad it was he was almost traded for Krug and a 1st rd pick (as well as dumping the Hayes contract)?

 

[dragonoffrost]

working the phones is very hard you know...

He made how many calls?