2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging

[BernieParent]

Look at the amount of money spent on that 4th line. Beyond dumb to have that much invested as team that has missed the playoffs what 4 years now?

True but this is slightly better than allowing salary/veteran status to dictate line usage.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Like @Random Forest said, this is probably the best array of talent available in the organization. But, that array of talent is still kind of shitty, so ideally they'd be taking steps to make it better in the future, like trading all these depth players who will be irrelevant by the time you'd expect to compete. In the hope that we can achieve some assets who will be relevant at that time.

They're mediocre and content to be so.

 

[deadhead]

Trading those depth players won't move the needle, and will mean you're force feeding guys who aren't ready (or they'd be pushing for jobs in camp, watching the games, it's pretty obvious who is NHL caliber) and signaling to the team you've given up on the season.

It's not like trading Hathaway and Seeler would get you a top 5 pick. More the difference between say #12 and #14. The success/failure of the goalies will have a far greater impact.

They're playing 12 starters 25 or under.
Next year a few graduate, but Bonk and Luchanko will be pushing for jobs, along with anyone who makes a jump this season.
In 2026, at least one pick from the 2025 draft should be pushing for a job.

 

[trostol]

i need to stop letting this be the first place I come to when I wake up lol

 

[scumpup]

i need to stop letting this be the first place I come to when I wake up lol

good morning!

 

[GKJ]

Right, but that leaves 14 forwards if they keep Luchanko.

They can roll with that for the road trip or 9 game tryout, but beyond that, they would have to send Jett back or jet someone else out.

Teams carry 14 forwards all the time

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

How does that top 6 look compared the team in the division?

Obviously they aren't at the top of the division but if Michkov is the real deal I think that top line is much closer to the top than the bottom of the division at least on paper. There's a dropoff on that second line but still pretty good, probably a little better than middle of the road compared to the rest of the division. I don't know all the line combos of all the teams in the division but Canes and Rangers I think are a step above everyone else. The Islanders and Caps made the playoffs last year, not sure what they look like this year but just looking at their rosters I'd say we are on par with them in the top six. Injuries, slumps, surprises, etc. can change all that but on paper I'd say a line of Michkov-Coots-Konecny and Tippett-Frost-Foerster compares to the other two playoff teams from last year. Comparing them to the Pens is hard because I think outside of Sid and Malkin the forward group isn't that great in Pitt but at the same time Sid and Malkin on the line is all that really matters.

Note that I said the team would be better than I expected, not that they are Stanley Cup contenders or anything like that. My assumption after last season was this team would be worse than last year but after Michkov coming over and his success in the preseason, if we can avoid major injuries and one of the goalies emerges I think this is a better team than last year and is probably a 7/8 playoff team. There's a lot of "ifs" involved in that but my concern with this team is defense and goalies a lot more than it is the forwards.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

So the opening lineup appears to be:

Michkov (age 19) - Couturier (31) - Konecny (27)
Tippett (25) - Frost (25) - Foerster (22)
Farabee (24) - Luchanko (18) - Brink (23)
Laughton (30) - Poehling (25) - Hathaway (32)
Cates (25) - Deslauriers (33)

York (23) - Sanheim (28)
Seeler (31) - Drysdale (22)
Zamula (24) - Risto (29)
Johnson (36)

Ersson (24)
Fedotov (27)

That's a hell of a young team.

And Luchanko making the team at least for a tryout as a freshly turned 18 yr old straight out of the draft?

Hm. Sure doesn't fit the "Torts is an old dinosaur who hates young players" narrative.

 

[deadhead]

Obviously they aren't at the top of the division but if Michkov is the real deal I think that top line is much closer to the top than the bottom of the division at least on paper. There's a dropoff on that second line but still pretty good, probably a little better than middle of the road compared to the rest of the division. I don't know all the line combos of all the teams in the division but Canes and Rangers I think are a step above everyone else. The Islanders and Caps made the playoffs last year, not sure what they look like this year but just looking at their rosters I'd say we are on par with them in the top six. Injuries, slumps, surprises, etc. can change all that but on paper I'd say a line of Michkov-Coots-Konecny and Tippett-Frost-Foerster compares to the other two playoff teams from last year. Comparing them to the Pens is hard because I think outside of Sid and Malkin the forward group isn't that great in Pitt but at the same time Sid and Malkin on the line is all that really matters.

Note that I said the team would be better than I expected, not that they are Stanley Cup contenders or anything like that. My assumption after last season was this team would be worse than last year but after Michkov coming over and his success in the preseason, if we can avoid major injuries and one of the goalies emerges I think this is a better team than last year and is probably a 7/8 playoff team. There's a lot of "ifs" involved in that but my concern with this team is defense and goalies a lot more than it is the forwards.

It's a high variability season.

Michkov, improvement by Farabee, Couts, Cates, Frost, Drysdale could give them an "average" offense (11-15th was 259 to 263 goals, Flyers had 231). An above average defense, top ten PK and an average PP should get them 95 or so points and a playoff berth.

Michkov struggling, some players getting injured/faltering could leave them with the same scoring as last season. Drysdale getting hurt, no one stepping up and Ersson/Fedotov playing below average in goal could end up with 80-85 points and picking 8th -12th.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

It's a high variability season.

Michkov, improvement by Farabee, Couts, Cates, Frost, Drysdale could give them an "average" offense (11-15th was 259 to 263 goals, Flyers had 231). An above average defense, top ten PK and an average PP should get them 95 or so points and a playoff berth.

Michkov struggling, some players getting injured/faltering could leave them with the same scoring as last season. Drysdale getting hurt, no one stepping up and Ersson/Fedotov playing below average in goal could end up with 80-85 points and picking 8th -12th.

I don't disagree with that being their likely range, but that doesn't feel highly variable to me. That's the whole chaff section of the league.

10 teams were above 100 Points last year and another 4 at 98+. 5 teams were below 70. Everyone else is just kinda shuffled up depending on how things break.

Hell, that getting 5 jumps vs not point distribution is the oft-invoked Buffalo Sabres every year.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Trading those depth players won't move the needle,

Yes it can. Quantity of picks and prospects maximizes chances of success and provides assets needed to acquire different assets if desired. Good management does this kind of thing all the time. Do the Flyers not have good management? You're always insisting they do. So they should be able to do it.

and will mean you're force feeding guys who aren't ready

Some of these guys will never be more ready. Get utility out of prospects for once. If they fail, then you've learned. If they succeed, then you've learned. You can learn a lot about players and your own processes. The Flyers refuse to do this whenever possible.

(or they'd be pushing for jobs in camp, watching the games, it's pretty obvious who is NHL caliber) and signaling to the team you've given up on the season.

Preseason is a bad measure, marginally better than practice. Go by actual games. Preseason isn't NHL hockey, it's a mess of guys with zero chemistry playing pond hockey in a mess of varying efforts. All while trying to knock the rust off.

"He's just clearly not NHL caliber" was used against NAK. Guess what, he's NHL caliber; preseason and camp were wrong and prior games was right. This gets used all the time to excuse the team's refusual to trade veterans for future assets and build for future contention. All while having no shot to contend now.

Couturier has looked pretty bad. He often does in preseason. Should that mean he is no longer NHL caliber, or can we tell from prior games he is?

It's not like trading Hathaway and Seeler would get you a top 5 pick. More the difference between say #12 and #14. The success/failure of the goalies will have a far greater impact.

Remind me, are any successful and worthwhile NHL players taken outside of the top 5?

They're playing 12 starters 25 or under.
Next year a few graduate, but Bonk and Luchanko will be pushing for jobs, along with anyone who makes a jump this season.
In 2026, at least one pick from the 2025 draft should be pushing for a job.

They can and should be playing more. At least 3 more.

This is yet another year of you defending a process that fails constantly and is annually getting obvious calls wrong. How many more times must the same process fail before you join me in asking them to try something else?

 

[Beef Invictus]

I don't disagree with that being their likely range, but that doesn't feel highly variable to me. That's the whole chaff section of the league.

10 teams were above 100 Points last year and another 4 at 98+. 5 teams were below 70. Everyone else is just kinda shuffled up depending on how things break.

Hell, that getting 5 jumps vs not point distribution is the oft-invoked Buffalo Sabres every year.

Mediocre, and content to be so. Forever.

It's more honest than winning and needing to have more talent or something, I don't know. Vegas? Florida? Colorado? Dishonest hockey, they tell themselves.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Anyway, who else is kind of excited to see if Zamula can build up more? Dude was super good at transition defense last season and could move the puck around.

 

[scumpup]

Anyway, who else is kind of excited to see if Zamula can build up more? Dude was super good at transition defense last season and could move the puck around.

Zamula is a guy I never really gave up on. I see his upside and I think this can be his big year. Not expecting anything crazy just being consistent on the ice would solidify his career. Hes very off and on.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Obviously they aren't at the top of the division but if Michkov is the real deal I think that top line is much closer to the top than the bottom of the division at least on paper. There's a dropoff on that second line but still pretty good, probably a little better than middle of the road compared to the rest of the division. I don't know all the line combos of all the teams in the division but Canes and Rangers I think are a step above everyone else. The Islanders and Caps made the playoffs last year, not sure what they look like this year but just looking at their rosters I'd say we are on par with them in the top six. Injuries, slumps, surprises, etc. can change all that but on paper I'd say a line of Michkov-Coots-Konecny and Tippett-Frost-Foerster compares to the other two playoff teams from last year. Comparing them to the Pens is hard because I think outside of Sid and Malkin the forward group isn't that great in Pitt but at the same time Sid and Malkin on the line is all that really matters.

Note that I said the team would be better than I expected, not that they are Stanley Cup contenders or anything like that. My assumption after last season was this team would be worse than last year but after Michkov coming over and his success in the preseason, if we can avoid major injuries and one of the goalies emerges I think this is a better team than last year and is probably a 7/8 playoff team. There's a lot of "ifs" involved in that but my concern with this team is defense and goalies a lot more than it is the forwards.

We shall see as I see bottom 10.

 

[renberg]

They're mediocre and content to be so.

I disagree. They are bottom eight in the league in talent or worse. Mediocre is too good of a description for them. Sure they have nice or six nice wings; a couple of decent defensemen and an adequate goaltender. After that the talent is thin. They're as bad as any club in the league at center; four third pairing defensemen litter the blue line and nothing in reserve at goal. Add in a volatile HC playing 20th century hockey. Sorry, that club is not going anywhere positive fast.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Zamula giveth, and Zamula taketh away.

He's capable of nice plays with the puck by holding onto it an extra split second and finding a passing or shooting lane.

And he's quite capable of turning it over and being way too slow to recover from his mistake.

He's capable of making very nice pokechecks with his long reach to break up plays.

And he's also capable of playing at far too slow of a pace and giving too much cushion at his own blueline.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

They have plenty of prospects to churn through to save money and free it up to build the roster up top, which in turn forces talent down the lineup. It's not like they're at any stage where playing those guys in those spots would matter, either, and if anything they might find some surprises. Investing at the bottom like this when you aren't close to contending is dead-end money that keeps you from having the cap resources needed to get better.

Not so sure on that. Which is sad really.

However, you can find league min/1 million per 4th line guys all day on 1 year/2 year deals.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Trading those depth players won't move the needle, and will mean you're force feeding guys who aren't ready (or they'd be pushing for jobs in camp, watching the games, it's pretty obvious who is NHL caliber) and signaling to the team you've given up on the season.

It's not like trading Hathaway and Seeler would get you a top 5 pick. More the difference between say #12 and #14. The success/failure of the goalies will have a far greater impact.

They're playing 12 starters 25 or under.
Next year a few graduate, but Bonk and Luchanko will be pushing for jobs, along with anyone who makes a jump this season.
In 2026, at least one pick from the 2025 draft should be pushing for a job.

or sign other vets for cheaper and shorter term while collecting assets.

You hope Bonk is pushing for a job. He didn't look NHL ready at all. Not impressed.

Again, you hope with 20245 draft pick.

 

[bennysflyers16]

People think Tortsy poo will not start his #1 pet Cates ?

 

[blackjackmulligan]

It's a high variability season.

Michkov, improvement by Farabee, Couts, Cates, Frost, Drysdale could give them an "average" offense (11-15th was 259 to 263 goals, Flyers had 231). An above average defense, top ten PK and an average PP should get them 95 or so points and a playoff berth.

Michkov struggling, some players getting injured/faltering could leave them with the same scoring as last season. Drysdale getting hurt, no one stepping up and Ersson/Fedotov playing below average in goal could end up with 80-85 points and picking 8th -12th.

Every team can play the "if" game.

Yes it can. Quantity of picks and prospects maximizes chances of success and provides assets needed to acquire different assets if desired. Good management does this kind of thing all the time. Do the Flyers not have good management? You're always insisting they do. So they should be able to do it.



Some of these guys will never be more ready. Get utility out of prospects for once. If they fail, then you've learned. If they succeed, then you've learned. You can learn a lot about players and your own processes. The Flyers refuse to do this whenever possible.



Preseason is a bad measure, marginally better than practice. Go by actual games. Preseason isn't NHL hockey, it's a mess of guys with zero chemistry playing pond hockey in a mess of varying efforts. All while trying to knock the rust off.

"He's just clearly not NHL caliber" was used against NAK. Guess what, he's NHL caliber; preseason and camp were wrong and prior games was right. This gets used all the time to excuse the team's refusual to trade veterans for future assets and build for future contention. All while having no shot to contend now.

Couturier has looked pretty bad. He often does in preseason. Should that mean he is no longer NHL caliber, or can we tell from prior games he is?



Remind me, are any successful and worthwhile NHL players taken outside of the top 5?



They can and should be playing more. At least 3 more.

This is yet another year of you defending a process that fails constantly and is annually getting obvious calls wrong. How many more times must the same process fail before you join me in asking them to try something else?

NAK rules. Never seen a 12/13th forward get talked about as much as him.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Jett has not stood out to be a regular NHL player in the least bit so far.

This move is to clearly fool the authentics into thinking they got this steal of a draft.

The kid isn't even a lock to make Team Canada for f***s sake.

 

[Curufinwe]

People think Tortsy poo will not start his #1 pet Cates ?

If he is healthy scratched to start this season, I think it will be the first time.

 

[Magua]

It's the obsession with scoring and "stars."
Most playoff teams have maybe 5 good offensive forwards, maybe 6.

The Goodrow - Guorde - Coleman line was 2nd in PO minutes for TB, because there are 60 minutes in a game, and you don't want to lose the 25-30 minutes your stars aren't on the ice.

Tampa definitely didn't have scoring and "stars." No, sir.

Cates is a solid middle six forward who can fill multiple roles, a better version of Laughton.

And yet Laughton is still here, with 1st round picks on the table. And Hathaway has a fresh 2 year contract beyond this season. These are scenarios we discussed. I think everyone here believes Cates should absolutely be a 4th liner, where he can provide positive value.

It would be stupid to keep Luchanko up, as an 18 year old, I don't think he's as good a center as Cates, so it doesn't help the team win this season.

It's very stupid, but if it comes to pass, it will be because they believe it does help them win this season. It might! But weirdly, that doesn't seem to be a rebuilding move or a long-term move. That's on you to reconcile, not us.

 

[captainpaxil]

Teams carry 14 forwards all the time

What do you think the chances are of sitting dlo and Hathaway?
Laughton poehling cates gets me excited. Of course I'd also be trying a flyers that fly line of tippet luchenko konecny. That's the kind of lineup that opens up space for michkov.